47-55.1 Welding question

[mobileortho]

Thinking I'm going to go ahead and shorten my 3600 as I've always wanted a short bed. I won't attempt this myself as I realize my limitations. I have a family member who welds for a living who told me my flux core welder would work fine for this but I'm unsure. He says welding both sides would give plenty of penetration but I need reassurance. Thoughts?

[mongocanfly]

I personally wouldnt use flux core...I use only gas shielded....flux core will work but it's not the better choice
Using gas is cheap enough and cleaner that it shouldn't even be a question...do you already have a mig?
Are you going to cut and shorten the bed as well? Or use diff bedsides

[dsraven]

If youhave a welder buddy available then he would also, assumably, would have access to a real mig welder. Think ofitthis way. If youtookthe frame tla welding shop would you want them to weld your frame witha flux core?
Nuff said.
Real gas mig is the way to go. My opinion.

[joedoh]

flux core 220V? I would do it

flux core 110v? I would not.

flux core actually works really well on thick material that is cleaned very well and has a good bevel, frame work is textbook flux core work but make sure your gaps are tight, you dont want to try to fill gaps with flux, MIG works better for that. Also I would use multiple passes, knocking slag between, and weld inside and out, and use a reinforcing fish plate over the joint.

here is a multi pass vid, you will butt weld instead of use a backer but this is the general idea

Multi-pass Flux Core - Adventures in Welding #133...

[hogfarm]

I assume you are talking about the frame? and not the sheet metal of the bed.I myself would not use flux core wire.I have shortened a few frames in my time and have alway used solid core wire.When I did my friends frame he had a little 120v welder,it worked a little just for a couple tacks. I brought my bigger miller welder over to finish the job.The Miller welder cost me over a $1000.00 and it was needed to do the job right.There are many different ways to weld,and there are many way to do this job.it all depends on what you are look for.

[mobileortho]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

I personally wouldnt use flux core...I use only gas shielded....flux core will work but it's not the better choice
Using gas is cheap enough and cleaner that it shouldn't even be a question...do you already have a mig?
Are you going to cut and shorten the bed as well? Or use diff bedsides

I have a 110 volt flux core and will be shortening the bedsides as well.

[mobileortho]

Originally Posted by dsraven

If youhave a welder buddy available then he would also, assumably, would have access to a real mig welder.

He works at one of the shipyards but doesn’t have one himself.

[Rickysnickers]

On a related topic, what do you use to clean the metal, acetone, lacquer thinner?

[mongocanfly]

I wouldnt do the bed sheetmetal with flux core...it will be a nitemare....the flux will contaminate the welds ...you will be spot welding the seams as you go....not a continuous weld.. and grind,hammer and dolley as you go
Theres a reason why you dont see fluxcore welding in the industry...
Have you ever welded any body panel sheetmetal before?

For metal cleaning about all I do is grind or sand the surface...and then weld...I dont use any liquid cleaners...I know on aluminum they use alcohol to clean it prior to welding...

[MARTINSR]

Yep, no flux core.

On the shortening, I hope you are planning on drilling out the spot welds on the stake pockets, then simply cutting the bed side to the desired length then plug welding the stake pockets at the new length.

Brian

[mr48chev]

In the right hands with the right size welder flux core is every bit as strong as solid core with gas.

It's also good for tacking things together so who ever does the final welding just has to run beads and not have to fuss with getting things lined up. I've got a cheapie stick welder that is more of a carbon arc welder out in the shed that I used to tack things together with and then carry down the street to my buddy to have him weld up with his 225 Lincoln. We pretty well built my T bucket frame that way.

I'd be a bit concerned as to who made that welder though as if it a Hobart or other name brand you should be ok but if it harbor freight you may not get the quality of welds you need.

These days though most guys gripe against flux coated or stick welding for that matter is that unless you have some serous skill the welds don't look pretty and take a lot of cleanup

On the bed sides cut the spot welds and move the posts as Martinsr suggested. That is hours and hours less work and no worries about warping the panels.

[mobileortho]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Yep, no flux core.

On the shortening, I hope you are planning on drilling out the spot welds on the stake pockets, then simply cutting the bed side to the desired length then plug welding the stake pockets at the new length.

Brian

Yep!

[lv2tri2]

Originally Posted by mobileortho

He works at one of the shipyards but doesn’t have one himself.

I would guess very little mig welding is done in the shipyard, and more likely, if used, it's gas. Smaller Mig Welders are relatively inexpensive and there is a fair market for used ones, if this is a one time project. Gas is the best choice.

[mobileortho]

Originally Posted by joedoh

flux core 220V? I would do it

flux core 110v? I would not.

flux core actually works really well on thick material that is cleaned very well and has a good bevel, frame work is textbook flux core. Also I would use multiple passes, knocking slag between, and weld inside and out, and use a reinforcing fish plate over the joint.

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, definitely reinforce the joints

Originally Posted by mr48chev

In the right hands with the right size welder flux core is every bit as strong as solid core with gas.
I'd be a bit concerned as to who made that welder though as if it a Hobart or other name brand you should be ok but if it harbor freight you may not get the quality of welds you need.

These days though most guys gripe against flux coated or stick welding for that matter is that unless you have some serous skill the welds don't look pretty and take a lot of cleanup

On the bed sides cut the spot welds and move the posts as Martinsr suggested. That is hours and hours less work and no worries about warping the panels.

I’ve got a Campbell Hausfield i bought years ago that I use for light jobs but it’s seen better days. I bought it cheap new from a divorcee selling off her deadbeat husbands stuff. I see a Forney and a Hobart for about $200, both have good reviews on Amazon.

[mobileortho]

Found this on the Lincoln Electric site:

Flux-Cored
The flux-cored process is only recommended on materials as thin as 20 gauge, a bit thicker than the 24 gauge we said for MIG. In general, this process is best for welding thicker materials with a single pass, especially if you need to weld outdoors such as to repair a tractor out in the field. A 115 volt flux-cored machine using an electrode such as .035" Innershield NR-211-MP will generally allow you to weld steel up to ¼"thick. Note that this is more than double the thickness maximum of 12 gauge with MIG on 115 volts. With the proper electrode on a proper machine, such as .045" Innershield NR-211MP, and a 230 volt input machine, you can weld steel up to 1/2" thick. Note that Innershield® NR-211-MP requires that the machine be setup for DC negative polarity.

[FAKKY]

I was curious as never heard of gas mig over flux core for any reason other than aesthetics.

These guys say ..... flkux core.


https://weldingweb.com/showthread.ph...ructural-steel

"GMAW in its basic form is known as a cold process and doesn't have the heat input as FCAW or GMAW-S ."

[mobileortho]

Just picked up this used Lincoln for a good price. Says it’s good for up to 5/16” thickness so I should be good.

[1project2many]

Good choice. Also note that some alloys of mig wire are easier to grind than others. For body work I use "EZ Grind" which is still plenty tough but grinds a *little* easier. Maybe some professional welders can chime in here??

[_Ogre]

ogre has an older lincoln weld-pak 100 that did all the welding on my frame and all the bed mods on 58 truk
my 120volt weld-pak is fluxcore only, it will do 1/4" steel with no problem
1/4" thick mustII xmember was welded in with this welder
spring pads welded on axle, brake hydroboost bracket welded
i also welded many patch panels into my son's 68 elco you see behind truk

nice thing about fluxcore is you can weld outside if needed without the shield gas blowing away: fencing, gates, signs
i've carried it up a ladder to weld on bar joists in commercial building, try that lugging a gas bottle
very portable if and runs on my generator for side of road repairs

fluxcore is easier to use and has a better weld in the hands of a knowledgeable welder or the novice welder
oem uses fluxcore to weld on spring pads and hub flanges for most trucks, using a 400 amp power source

[mobileortho]

Ogre, I can't wait to get started! Thanks for the info!

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by joedoh

flux core 220V? I would do it

flux core 110v? I would not.

flux core actually works really well on thick material that is cleaned very well and has a good bevel, frame work is textbook flux core work but make sure your gaps are tight, you dont want to try to fill gaps with flux, MIG works better for that. Also I would use multiple passes, knocking slag between, and weld inside and out, and use a reinforcing fish plate over the joint.

given all the lucid and qualified responses I would like to change my statement to:

flux core 220V? I would do it

flux core 110V? I would do it.



good luck mobile!

[greg_h]

When shortening the frame rails, do a Z cut for better strength.

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by joedoh

flux core 220V? I would do it

flux core 110v? I would not.

flux core actually works really well on thick material that is cleaned very well and has a good bevel, frame work is textbook flux core work but make sure your gaps are tight, you dont want to try to fill gaps with flux, MIG works better for that. Also I would use multiple passes, knocking slag between, and weld inside and out, and use a reinforcing fish plate over the joint.

glad to see you've revised your thoughts on fluxcore welding

but... you always want a gap on welding and grind a bevel on any metal
the gap allows you to control puddle and penetration of the weld
a properly done weld from one side should have a good look bead on both sides
these sheet metal clamps hold a perfect gap for thin stuff



i find that fluxcore is very forgiving on less than clean metal
it will burn most rust, paint and oil out and still give a very good weld

multi pass welding is crucial for any welding method: fluxcore, mig, tig or stick
even 10 gauge steel on a critical application should have a root pass, grind and cover pass
i learned to weld on pipe, no going in to weld the backside

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

but... you always want a gap on welding and grind a bevel on any metal
the gap allows you to control puddle and penetration of the weld
a properly done weld from one side should have a good look bead on both sides
these sheet metal clamps hold a perfect gap for thin stuff

it looks like you are restating what I said in my post, to make it look like I didnt say it in my post and it required correcting. I said mind your gaps, no big fills for flux, and bevel the part. are you correcting someone else or agreeing? the only thing I changed my mind on was using 110V.

[mobileortho]

A wealth of knowledge here and all of your replies are much appreciated! At one time, my son was interested in becoming a certified welder so I took him over to the local Community College to look at their program. The instructor told me that they also had a 5 for $50 course offered on weekends for beginners. That's 5 hours of instruction for $50. The little welding that I've done has been self taught (and looks like rat turds!) but I may take that course myself just to learn how to do it the right way. Not that I plan on doing a ton of work, but more so for the knowledge gained.