Spindle Tie Rod End Inserts

[SCOTI]

I recently purchased CPP modular spindles to use w/an older Dropmember. The Dropmember requires the TRE hole on the steering knuckle to be drilled out to allow a bolt in heim-joint as the TRE. The problem is the CPP knuckles TRE hole is already too large (the minor end of the taper is the size of the bolt).

I googled 'TRE inserts/spindle steering inserts' but all I'm finding is tapered inserts for 4x4 guys flipping/converting to 3/4-ton/1-ton GM TRE's for additional clearance.

Anyone know of a source for non-tapered 'repair' inserts? The heim through-bolt is .625".

[Koz1]

look up dry sleeve bearings..

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Koz1

look up dry sleeve bearings..

Hhmm…. Stuff I looked up on McMaster Carr were rated in a dynamic radial load capacity. Not sure how that would convert as far as from a wearable stand-point.

I know I can do DOM .750" tubing that's .188" wall that can then be drilled to the .625" final ID but such a small amount is pricy online so I was seeking other possible alternatives (it was $20 for 8" of DOM plus the shipping costs which are stupid right now even though it's only 1lb).

I found 1018 steel 'Weld Washers' for repairing reamed holes in surfaces. They come in various sizes but the depth is only 1/4" beyond the shoulder. They might work though. I'm going to measure the knuckles TRE mounting pad for depth tonight....

[Willie Makeit]

drill the spindle arm hole oversize and use an oilite bushing to size it back down. McMaster Carr offers all different types of oilite bushings in numerous sizes for less than $5 each.

[Dieselwrencher]

Both sound like reasonably cheap and good ways of doing it.

[SCOTI]

Measured the TRE 'pad' last night & it's 1.02~1.06 (PC'd). I think I'll order the bushings from McMaster Carr & see how they feel.

If I don't feel comfortable, I'll order the DOM tube pieces. Metal Supermarkets was like $12 for 2qty 1" pieces so if I can pick them up @ my local storefront that's very do-able. I'll need to do some 'mathing' as I want a snug/machined fit vs. an easy slip fit.

[Dieselwrencher]

Nothing is just a simple swap anymore is it? Seems like I run into these issues quite a bit more lately than not.

[Willie Makeit]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Measured the TRE 'pad' last night & it's 1.02~1.06 (PC'd). I think I'll order the bushings from McMaster Carr & see how they feel.

If I don't feel comfortable, I'll order the DOM tube pieces. Metal Supermarkets was like $12 for 2qty 1" pieces so if I can pick them up @ my local storefront that's very do-able. I'll need to do some 'mathing' as I want a snug/machined fit vs. an easy slip fit.

bronzelite shouldn't require a press fit, as long is it goes in the hole and is allowed to "spin" but not "wobble" in the hole. hope that makes sense.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

bronzelite shouldn't require a press fit, as long is it goes in the hole and is allowed to "spin" but not "wobble" in the hole. hope that makes sense.

My concern is if the bolt starts getting tugged back/forth, how well is that CPP spindle going to handle it. I'd prefer everything to be SNUG.

I'm testing another option now before making a decision. I might make an adjustable 'sleeve' & upsize the outer end of things to actually use a legit TRE vs. a heim-joint.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

My concern is if the bolt starts getting tugged back/forth, how well is that CPP spindle going to handle it. I'd prefer everything to be SNUG.

I'm testing another option now before making a decision. I might make an adjustable 'sleeve' & upsize the outer end of things to actually use a legit TRE vs. a heim-joint.

A heavier-duty TRE that I tried was too large. I could ream the spindles TRE pad but the threaded portion was too large IMO so I'm waiting for another option to arrive for testing. Earliest I could get it here is Tues AM

This option will be the easiest way to go as I already have the materials to make it work as far as the install is concerned.

[aggie91]

Would either of these be useful?

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-...olt,41058.html

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjus...ku=91636055-GM

The second one seems like a good solution.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by aggie91

Would either of these be useful?

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-...olt,41058.html

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjus...ku=91636055-GM

The second one seems like a good solution.

Technically, they 'could' work for someone in a somewhat similar application. The issue @ hand is the CPP Modular spindles TRE hole is not exactly "exact". A factory GM truck TRE drops into the hole but has more play vs. an OE spindle. When I did my 1st Dropmember, I used Western Chassis spindles & drilled the TRE hole to the requisite 5/8" dimension for the heims (#4 5/8" x 3/6-16L).

For these CPP/Modular spindles I have, the 'minor' side of the hole is already slightly larger than 5/8". That nixes the ability to simply drill the hole out as it's already too large. Nathan said it's not the first time he's heard of this issue. His recommendation was to drill it out w/a larger diameter & use a spacer/insert for the 5/8 bolt.

The stock 1/2 ton TRE (#1 Moog ES409R) Doesn't fit properly & is way too long for my app (DM, Narrowed arms, modular spindle). Yes it could be cut down shorter but the casting is too large to thread any deeper w/o machining it.

I tried/tested a TRE similar to the 1/2 ton truck unit (#2 Moog ES392R). It's 'listed' dimensions indicated it would be slightly fatter @ both the minor/major portions of the stud & be longer. What I have was none of the above. Minor/major dimensions were same or slightly under & the stud length was ~.625" shorter. That shorter length would decrease the grease-boot height/capacity & yield tighter dimensions between the TRE pad on the spindle & the TRE as you move it up/down (it would make contact sooner than a stock TRE would).

My 3rd tested option is a TRE for a 1-ton GM 4wd (#3 ES2234R). It has a shorter shank vs. the 1/2 ton TRE & the shank is threaded all the way to the studs 'housing'. The down side is the shank is 7/8-18 thread. The stud is slightly larger (fatter) vs. the 1/2 ton - 1-ton 2wd TRE's but easily dropped into the TRE opening of the modular spindle. I would have to ream the tapered opening to go this route.

That's where I am @ this time. I'm waiting to hear from a buddy to see if any techs @ his shop have a tapered reamer (this size is expensive).

If I can get one, I'm going to try reaming the TRE hole first so I can use a actual spec'd TRE vs. a heim. If I don't like the fit of the 1-ton TRE set-up, nothing is lost as the hole gets drilled larger anyway to fit an insert for the 5/8" bolt needed for the heim.

[SCOTI]

Just to follow-up….

I opted to ream for the larger TRE's & try them. Won't be the first time I've spent ~$100 for a limited use tool. Started before work today & finished the process @ lunch.

I just lightly buzzed to start (only attempting to remove the powder-coating).
Then, I tried the OE spec TRE. It fit better @ the major but was still loose @ the minor end of the taper (I didn't care for that).
The Scout TRE was too short.

The 1-ton & heim had the same center-line as far as height on the TRE pad so I clearanced the taper for it. It definitely fit better @ the minor & major points of measure.
Pic is 1-ton TRE installed w/castle nut & cotter key in place.

[Dieselwrencher]

Reamers aren't cheap but nice to have especially in this situation. Nice fix. Do you have to adapt down to the inner tie rod now or?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Reamers aren't cheap but nice to have especially in this situation. Nice fix. Do you have to adapt down to the inner tie rod now or?

Yes. I already had materials for that although I'm also contemplating drilling/tapping the aluminum adapter for the heims (they're 3/4-16LH & I need 7/8-14RH).

[SCOTI]

This morning I stared @ things & scrutinized clearances further.

I started thinking about everything last night (you know, one more thing to help keep me from sleeping). I thought I really need to test a wheel on there for clearance validations & cycle the arms through the travel before spending any additional money or time on stuff.

The wheel clears (15x6; factory 3.625" BS). I don't feel a 15" w/any additional BS would though. The joint housing on the 1-ton/4wd TRE is larger vs. the correct TRE. Larger diameter wheels would be better/ok as well.

I cycled it through travel & while it cleared, it's very close on compression (@ ~3"). This is also hard to emulate because I need the adapter so the inner/outer threaded portions are 100% aligned. For the test, I simply raised the suspension & re-aligned the threaded portion of each end. What I felt is the issue is the seal/boot for the TRE gets pinched & it's not very tall. So over the course of driving conditions, the boot would see abuse & fail.

I'm going to play around w/things more after work.

[aggie91]

you could use a piece of PVC pipe to simulate the adapter from the rack to the TRE. Or just a length of all thread taped up between the two. It would help simulate the motion of the TRE through the suspension cycle.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by aggie91

you could use a piece of PVC pipe to simulate the adapter from the rack to the TRE. Or just a length of all thread taped up between the two. It would help simulate the motion of the TRE through the suspension cycle.

Just re-aligning them was enough to see things were to close for comfort (for me). Again, there was no bind but the boot/cover wouldn't last long.

[SCOTI]

So, today I started on the 'drilling' for an insert. This is a jacked-up deal. You can't get the spindle ALIGNED & CLAMPED in a press (well, @ least in our drill press) to allow a nice straight motion.

So, I tried drilling w/it in place on the chassis. I used a ratchet strap for locking it in one spot & preventing it from moving.
I used a uni-bit to start the process as the steps allowed the appropriate size bit some depth to start things off.
I also used the uni-bit from the bottom side to remove as much extra material as possible because the 3/4 & 7/8 bits are no joke.

I worked as slow as possible to keep the bits cool. Constantly dipped them in cutting fluid during the process. I tried the 1/2 drill but found my 18v offered the best speed control. It drilled ok, but not 'good'.

The bits bite way too much which pulled the cutting. When it was done, the top of the hole def had wiggle vs the bottom portion (this was why I wanted to use the drill press). I purchased some 'over-sized' press-fit bushings & although the one I did required me to use the hydraulic press to seat it flush, I don't like the fact it had play near the top when only partially in.

I re-grouped & went back to try the drill press again for the 2nd one. Not happening. I guess tomorrow I'll see if I can rig things up on a shop table & use a magnetic base drill press we have (our maint group has it somewhere in the building & I'll have to get w/the day shift guys to find it's location).

[SCOTI]

Drilled the second one w/the 'proper' tools vs doing it by hand. MUCH better experience & results.