Budget Vortec Head Upgrade

[jocko]

Here's how you can run original valve covers:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Speedway-Ce...ss!76028!US!-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-Valve-C...rd!76028!US!-1

Note that some have a rubber seal that in a machined slot while others use dual gaskets above and below the adapter. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has used the rubber seal in the machined slot type as to whether there were any leakage issues. I'd "think" they'd be less likely to leak than stock gaskets, but then again, not sure how rigid the adapters are. I have a couple sets of actual GM adapters that I plan to use - found them at an old Chevy dealer near where I grew up - called the lady behind the parts desk, she even knew some of my relatives, and boom, they were in the mail. GM used to make these adapters shortly after the vortec heads came out, but I don't think they still do. From what I could tell they are identical to the ones offered by Speedway.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by jocko

Here's how you can run original valve covers:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Speedway-Ce...ss!76028!US!-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-Valve-C...rd!76028!US!-1

Note that some have a rubber seal that in a machined slot while others use dual gaskets above and below the adapter. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has used the rubber seal in the machined slot type as to whether there were any leakage issues. I'd "think" they'd be less likely to leak than stock gaskets, but then again, not sure how rigid the adapters are. I have a couple sets of actual GM adapters that I plan to use - found them at an old Chevy dealer near where I grew up - called the lady behind the parts desk, she even knew some of my relatives, and boom, they were in the mail. GM used to make these adapters shortly after the vortec heads came out, but I don't think they still do. From what I could tell they are identical to the ones offered by Speedway.

Interesting. It seems the machined slot style wouldn't be as thick and noticeable since there wouldn't be a stock gasket underneath it. I would think that the valve cover would help keep the adapter rigid.

[jocko]

I agree - that's my preferred choice and the type I bought, I just haven't had a chance to use them just yet. If you painted their edges chevy orange, they'd likely almost disappear visually - i.e. look like a slightly deeper head - and all you'd see is the usual gasket below the stock valve cover, over top of the adapter. I think they should seal well to the head due to the vortec bolt down pattern - and then you'd have the 'normal' leak concerns with the stock valve cover to the top of the adapter. The only ones I've ever seen good pics of installed were a thicker, different type of adapter and they kinda stood out if not painted.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by jocko

I agree - that's my preferred choice and the type I bought, I just haven't had a chance to use them just yet. If you painted their edges chevy orange, they'd likely almost disappear visually - i.e. look like a slightly deeper head - and all you'd see is the usual gasket below the stock valve cover, over top of the adapter. I think they should seal well to the head due to the vortec bolt down pattern - and then you'd have the 'normal' leak concerns with the stock valve cover to the top of the adapter.

This arrangement would get the crankcase vent inlet hole back in the correct place for use with a stock air cleaner, which is what I've been planning on doing. Wasn't sure how I'd do that with the Vortec valve covers since things are awfully crowded over the back of the driver side valve cover with the throttle linkage, transmission kickdown and power brake booster hose all in that space. I do like how well the center bolt Vortec valve covers seal though.

[ChevyRacefan]

Originally Posted by Big Kev-O

I did a similar build with Vortec heads and a Edlebrock 2116 intake. I used the Eddy 7235 intake gaskets similar to your Mr Gasket 136G. Engine ran like a champ for first couple thousand miles than started idling rough, fouling plugs and smoking out the tailpipes. Changed the gaskets thinking maybe I messed up the install, same results. After searching the web I discovered this was common issue Vortec heads when paper/felt style gaskets are used. Lots of builders recommend steel rubber impregnated gaskets found in the Felpro MS98000T kit so i gave them a try. Problem solved.

So if you start smoking check your intake gaskets.

I cheated.
I started with a g.m. crate engine for a 3/4 ton and up. As they are have 4 bolt mains over the 1/2 ton 2 bolt. (2 bolt mains part number ends with a 2, the 4 bolt main crate ends with a 3) . 2021.52
Bought the ram jet roller cam, (172.63) 1.6 roller rockers,(227.95) ls9 beehive springs and comp cams retainers and locks. (112.31)
Drilled out the push rod holes , slowly as I did not pull the heads.
Edelbrook dual pattern(339.95) you can bolt on a q-jet or a square bore carb) intake . cast alum valve covers (118.95) short water pump (45.00)
one piece rubber oil pan gasket (24.94) timing cover gasket (5.56) rubber valve cover gaskets (19.92).melonized distributor gear 45.99) had HEI and The carb rebuild kit and new float for the q-jet was 18.67 and 7.99
Carb studs. 8.95, a tube of rtv for the intake china walls. 7.65, thermostat and gasket 11.54 engine paint 9.23 bolts for water pump 3.12 90's truck flexplate with the newer bolt pattern 65.99
Should have 330-340hp as it is a ramjet long block now.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by ChevyRacefan

I cheated.
I started with a g.m. crate engine for a 3/4 ton and up. As they are have 4 bolt mains over the 1/2 ton 2 bolt. (2 bolt mains part number ends with a 2, the 4 bolt main crate ends with a 3) . 2021.52
Bought the ram jet roller cam, (172.63) 1.6 roller rockers,(227.95) ls9 beehive springs and comp cams retainers and locks. (112.31)
Drilled out the push rod holes , slowly as I did not pull the heads.
Edelbrook dual pattern(339.95) you can bolt on a q-jet or a square bore carb) intake . cast alum valve covers (118.95) short water pump (45.00)
one piece rubber oil pan gasket (24.94) timing cover gasket (5.56) rubber valve cover gaskets (19.92).melonized distributor gear 45.99) had HEI and The carb rebuild kit and new float for the q-jet was 18.67 and 7.99
Carb studs. 8.95, a tube of rtv for the intake china walls. 7.65, thermostat and gasket 11.54 engine paint 9.23 bolts for water pump 3.12 90's truck flexplate with the newer bolt pattern 65.99
Should have 330-340hp as it is a ramjet long block now.

That's not a bad price for that crate engine.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by bry593

That 8 bolt intake design is not one of GM's crowning achievements.

Man, you've got that right! Why in the world did they get rid of the additional 4 bolts? GM had problems even with totally stock parts.

Originally Posted by bry593

A good thing about the late model valve covers is that they don't leak.

Yes, great design that limits how much the gaskets can be compressed.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by ChevyRacefan

I started with a g.m. crate engine for a 3/4 ton and up. As they are have 4 bolt mains over the 1/2 ton 2 bolt. .

I thought the engine I built for my 82 C10 (which I no longer have) was out of a 1997 1/2 ton pickup. However, it has 4-bolt mains and came with an oil cooler adapter. That must mean it was from a 3/4 ton truck. Unfortunately, magnafluxing showed that each of the 062 heads had a couple hairline cracks between valve seats. Not unusual for the lightweight castings, from what I hear.

I ended up using only the block, oil pan, and pan baffle, and bought a balanced rotating assembly. The good news is I sold the nodular iron crank, pistons, and rods for about what I paid for the entire engine! If I had a do-over I would have kept the crank and rods, and then used D-dish pistons and have it all balanced locally.

I also used the RamJet roller cam with the valves springs and retainers I mentioned above. Small world!

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by MikeB

I thought the engine I built for my 82 C10 (which I no longer have) was out of a 1997 1/2 ton pickup. However, it has 4-bolt mains and came with an oil cooler adapter. That must mean it was from a 3/4 ton truck.

My 906 heads have the hardened exhaust valve seats, but they came out of a 1/2 ton pickup. I didn't have them magnafluxed, so I'm definitely taking a gamble. I just inspected them thoroughly with the valves removed.

[Acorn]

I have been running the Speedway valve cover adaptors on a crate L31 for two years of 'daily' driving and have had no leaks. The o-ring was thick enough to compress nicely against the head. I thought if it ever did start to leak, I would just use some RTV. But, so far, so good. I also use the thick blue cover gaskets from Speedway. (910-17001)
I also painted the sides of the adaptors orange so they didn't stand out. Most people don't even notice at first glance.
Here are a couple old bad pics. Note that the valve cover is not bolted down but the gasket is under there to give you and idea.

[garyd1961]

Originally Posted by ChevyRacefan

They make adapters if you have to have the old look.

Not referring to you personally but I just don't understand this. The center bolt valve covers is an upgrade just like the roller cam and one piece rear seal. Yet people pay extra so they can put the old leaky type valve covers back on. For what? It's only bolts not every other bolt is the same as factory.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by garyd1961

Not referring to you personally but I just don't understand this. The center bolt valve covers is an upgrade just like the roller cam and one piece rear seal. Yet people pay extra so they can put the old leaky type valve covers back on. For what? It's only bolts not every other bolt is the same as factory.

For me, everything I do to my truck is a balance between nostalgia and performance. For some people, that line is way one way where they want everything to be exactly as it was from the factory. I love seeing a totally stock truck, restored or not. It is something truly special. For others, it's more about performance and appearance. You end up with an LS motor, shaved firewall, notched frame, relocated tank, modern interior, etc. The craftsmanship in some of these trucks is truly impressive, and they still retain some nostalgia, at least from the outside. Valve cover adapters like this are for those of us who are a touch more on the nostalgia side than the performance side. I admit the adapters don't make a a lot of sense from a purely functional standpoint, but I am still tempted by them.

[ChevyRacefan]

Originally Posted by garyd1961

Not referring to you personally but I just don't understand this. The center bolt valve covers is an upgrade just like the roller cam and one piece rear seal. Yet people pay extra so they can put the old leaky type valve covers back on. For what? It's only bolts not every other bolt is the same as factory.

Some like their vehicle to look era correct.
Same reason Holley sells a bunch of efi units that look like a Holley double pumper.
Same reason they make a big deal out of putting a shaft radio in , and not a din sized unit.
I am in the planing stages of building an era correct type/themed vehicle.
There are some newer things I will be able to hide and still look the part and others I will not be able to.
My truck I went with the newer engine because it was all new and cheaper than having a machine shop do a basic rebuild on my old unit.
If I rebuilt my old 350, and add a roller cam and better than smog heads, it would have been 4500.-5000.00 the base rebuild 2500.00 + retrofit roller cam and lifters/etc 1100.00+ heads 1200.00+ better intake than the cast iron lump 109.
The g.m. crate vortec and the parts to turn it into a copy of the ram jet 350 with 330-340 hp was under 3k .
It seems g.m. prices the crate engines a fair bit higher now. but when I bought it for a little over 2 grand, it was a no brainer, all new everything from g.m.

[pjmoreland]

I went ahead and preemptively replaced my intake manifold gasket with the metal/rubber Felpro MS98000T gasket. I am waiting for the RTV to cure, so I haven't started it up, but one thing I noticed right away was that the manifold bolts didn't feel mushy like they did when I torqued down the Mr. Gasket gasket. I followed the guidelines in this video, starting at 13:49.

https://youtu.be/uoB8t6__210

[OL SKOOL]

Would those vortec heads work on a 400 sb. Would i have to drill out the steam hole passages? P J that engine looks great in there.

[pjmoreland]

Thanks, OL SKOOL. This article talks briefly about drilling steam passages by hand in Vortec heads.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...ster-for-2500/

[garyd1961]

Originally Posted by ChevyRacefan

Some like their vehicle to look era correct.
Same reason Holley sells a bunch of efi units that look like a Holley double pumper.
Same reason they make a big deal out of putting a shaft radio in , and not a din sized unit.
I am in the planing stages of building an era correct type/themed vehicle.
There are some newer things I will be able to hide and still look the part and others I will not be able to.
My truck I went with the newer engine because it was all new and cheaper than having a machine shop do a basic rebuild on my old unit.
If I rebuilt my old 350, and add a roller cam and better than smog heads, it would have been 4500.-5000.00 the base rebuild 2500.00 + retrofit roller cam and lifters/etc 1100.00+ heads 1200.00+ better intake than the cast iron lump 109.
The g.m. crate vortec and the parts to turn it into a copy of the ram jet 350 with 330-340 hp was under 3k .
It seems g.m. prices the crate engines a fair bit higher now. but when I bought it for a little over 2 grand, it was a no brainer, all new everything from g.m.

I have the Vortec L31-R in my truck. I kept the original cam with a Holley carb and long tube headers to help it breath. It runs good and from watching dyno's of simular setups I should be close to 300 hp and over 375 ft/lbs of torque.