47-55.1 Looking for Advice on Upcoming 1950 Truck Project

[dsraven]

not positive it has a torque tube but every stock 1/2 ton AD truck I have seen has one. the driveshaft is inside a tube directly connected to the rear axle on one end and through a single ujoint and sealing spherical ball connection bolted to the rear of the trans at the other end. the rear axle is not bolted to the springs with u bolts like newer trucks but instead the axle housing bracket where it connects to the springs has a pivot bolt to allow the angle of the axle, relative to the springs, to change as the suspension travels up and down. the driveshaft can be unbolted with the spherical ball end at the trans and taken apart at the rear axle end. the inner shaft is splined and connected at the pinion end with a cross pin which can be removed for complete disassembly if required. there is a shaft bearing inside the tube, called an okie bushing, that can be serviced/replaced. if you decide to swap out the engine and trans to something newer without the torque tube there is an aftermarket axle bracket available to mount a different axle on the rear springs. the bracket basically locates the axle with the locating pin offset so the axle is centered on the springs.
here is a link to the rear axle torque tube.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com.../5212mts00.htm

[pjmoreland]

Thank you. I had no idea. This truck is only 18 years older than mine, but there sure were a lot of design changes in those 18 years. I don't think there were nearly as many design changes in the 18 years after my truck was made. Not to many differences between a 68 and an 86. Of course EFI was right around the corner.

[dsraven]

Yeah, you probably need to do a full in depth check over and make a list of what needs to be fixed along with the costs to do that. Then come up with a plan of what you want the truck to be like when finished. What will the final use for the truck be, will you keep it or sell it. Plan to do what needs to be done in stages, if needed, with the final outcome desired kept in mind.if the final outcome is ps, pb with front disc, independent front suspension, auto trans with overdrive for highway and fuel mileage, fuel tank out of cab, etc etc, then do any upgrades along the way with that end in mind. For instance, no use doing a complete I beam axle suspension rebuild if you plan on changing to independent suspension. Unless you have the tools and know how to do that cheaply or have a buyer for the rebuilt stuff when you're ready to do the upgrade. No use rebuilding the inline 6 if you really want a little v8 later. You likely wont recover those costs.
Just saying, see what you have and compare to what you really want out of it.

[pjmoreland]

That's good advice there. I redid several things twice on my 68 because my plans changed as the project progressed.

[dsraven]

yeah, me too. best plan is a short plan, time wise. haha. a check list may work too. make the list so you could do a couple of things at the same time so if one thing is held up for parts or whatever then you can keep yourself (and your mind) busy doing another list item. less chance your mind finds something else you can't live without, haha.
doing a stock rebuild can be expenasive and then in the end it may be less apealing to drive because we get used to tight one finger steering, power brakes and other modern amenities. I did a 54 for a friend and he went stock. he likes the truck but doesn't drive it much, mostly he polishes it and dreams of when he drove it back in the '70's when parking lot spaces were bigger than a golf cart, nobody had awesome brakes and people actually drove instead of driving, talking on the phone, finding a music play list, texting etc, lol. thats why I advised to get a plan of what you want from the truck when all done. driving on sunday to the coffee shop would be different for me than a daily driver or highway tripper. it's why I am doing a frame swap on mine. a lot of the stuff I would have to spend money on is already included in the donor frame. engine, driveline, exhaust, fuel system, o/d trans, big disc brakes, 4 link rear, etc plus parts are available at the local parts store. it's not for everybody though, and may make the truck worth less if reselling.

[pjmoreland]

A frame swap sounds like a major undertaking.

My understanding is that the owner just wants to get it roadworthy for casual occasional use. I guess the path taken to reach that goal will depend upon the actual condition of the existing components, which is unknown at this point.

[dsraven]

sorry, for some reason I thought you had aquired the truck and were going to check it out and possibly get it going.
anyway, check it out and post up the findings. good luck with it all.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by dsraven

sorry, for some reason I thought you had aquired the truck and were going to check it out and possibly get it going.
anyway, check it out and post up the findings. good luck with it all.

I will be heading up to Washington in about a week to spend a week working on it. I'll post updates once we start tearing into it.

[dsraven]

nice.
I would say do a quick check of the engine down the spark plug holes if you have a boroscope. maybe try the prybar thing but if it is stuck hard don't spend a whole bunch of time on that. if no boroscope, pull the plugs, fill the cylinders with ATF or diesel, then while that is perking, get the truck up on stands so you can do a bumper to bumper check over. that will give you an idea of what else may be required besides possibly and engine. if the repair is to go ahead there is no use doing the engine part and not thinking about the rest of the mechanical condition. the rest of the truck could cost a lot of cash to fix depending on what is wrong, siezed, worn out, rusted etc.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by dsraven

nice.
I would say do a quick check of the engine down the spark plug holes if you have a boroscope. maybe try the prybar thing but if it is stuck hard don't spend a whole bunch of time on that. if no boroscope, pull the plugs, fill the cylinders with ATF or diesel, then while that is perking, get the truck up on stands so you can do a bumper to bumper check over. that will give you an idea of what else may be required besides possibly and engine. if the repair is to go ahead there is no use doing the engine part and not thinking about the rest of the mechanical condition. the rest of the truck could cost a lot of cash to fix depending on what is wrong, siezed, worn out, rusted etc.

All good points. I do have a boroscope, so that will be the first thing.

[mick53]

Is it possible for him to oil up the cylinders a few days before he brings it to you?

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by mick53

Is it possible for him to oil up the cylinders a few days before he brings it to you?

Yep. He already did.

[MidLifer]

The 1950 had the torque tube, as well as Huck brakes. Swapping it out for a more modern rear axle and driveshaft should be nor more than $1000 all in.

Here's how I did mine - I found a used 1980 Camaro axle (Camaro and Nova axles are the right width as are a bunch of others - over on stovebolt forums there is a list of axles that fit these trucks), that cost me $250. For about $100 I got the kit to mount the axle - spring perches, u-bolts and shock mounts. The driveshaft cost $400 to have made - if you are crafty and patient you can often find junkyard driveshafts in the right length but I chose to get a new one. Then you just have to either weld the spring perches yourself or get someone to do it for you, which could cost you another $100-200. I'm not a great welder so I opted for the latter.

If you're gonna keep the 6 and want a manual, a T-5 trans out of an S-10 is a good pairing, try to find one of the older ones with the mechanical speedo gear. Devestechnet (google it) has all the info you need on the swap (and a ton of other info on stovebolt engines).

[pjmoreland]

MidLifer, thank you for the ideas. Sounds like a great way to breathe new life into this old truck while keeping the cost down. I don't know what Huck brakes are, so I will look that up.

[mick53]

When I changed out my rear end in my 53 3100 back in about 1981 I knew even less than I do now about rear ends. I gave the junkyard guy $50 and he pointed at a mountain sized pile of rear ends and said pick one. All I had to go by was the width and 6 lugs. I found out years later that it was a rear end that today is quite sought after. My heir will probably toss it in the scrap pile. On the drive shaft, a couple of years ago I needed one for a small dump truck I have. I went to one of my local backwoods junkyards and found one (another mountain size pile) with the right yokes on it that was too long. I paid $20 for it. I took it to the "local" driveline shop and they charged me $30 to shorten and balance it. If you do your own prep work welding perches on shouldn't be more than $20-$30. I wouldn't even charge for that if they brought it to me ready to go. I am in a rural area with a lot of small shops with real craftsmen in them that take pride in their work. If someone comes to me with a small job and passion in their eyes I don't charge them. Especially if it's their project car or truck and I'm not the only one around here like that. Thank you for your time. PS. if you take someone a clean part you will be appreciated for it.

[pjmoreland]

Here are some photos from inside the cylinders. There appears to be significant rust on some of the cylinder walls, and one cylinder in particular contains quite a bit of sludge. Not too encouraging.

[pjmoreland]

More photos

[dsraven]

Well, at least you know its likely done for. Now you can do some telephone and/or online work to see if you can find a replacement and what that will cost. I suggest to do a thorough inspection of the truck from bumper to bumper and do a complete work up estimate so you can get a good idea of what the cost will be to get a roadworthy driver out of it. Obviously it hasn't been driven for some time.

[dsraven]

Sorry man, pics like that are never good news.

[pjmoreland]

Took the head off. It appears that coolant leaked into the rear three cylinders and then it sat that way for several years.

[duramax55]

pjmoerland you might be surprised once you clean it up some it might not be as bad as it looks. Run cylinders down one at a time and run a hone in them and if they seem to clean out ,then youl have to take it appart and do it properly

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by duramax55

pjmoerland you might be surprised once you clean it up some it might not be as bad as it looks. Run cylinders down one at a time and run a hone in them and if they seem to clean out ,then youl have to take it appart and do it properly

So far we haven't been able to get the engine to rotate. The pistons are quite stuck.

[dsraven]

Lots of those heads had cracks in the casting.
Use a rotary wire brush on a drill or whatever to clean the cylinders above the pistons. Then take the oil pan off, mark and remove a rod cap, protect the crank journal, then use a wood block or dowel or piece of broom handle on the under side of the piston to hammer it out from the under side. Some may be easily removed, some may break apart before they let go. Either way, be careful you dont bash the cylinder walls or the crank journals.

[joedoh]

what a shame. but there are plenty of 6 cylinder engines out there, i would just buy a used 6 popper that verifies as running and move on with life, no sense in a full (expensive) rebuild unless you just like hunting parts and spending money, mostly just spending money.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by joedoh

what a shame. but there are plenty of 6 cylinder engines out there, i would just buy a used 6 popper that verifies as running and move on with life, no sense in a full (expensive) rebuild unless you just like hunting parts and spending money, mostly just spending money.

Yep, you're right. These pistons are totally seized. Removed rod caps and hammered from below, and they are not budging. Hopefully we can find a decent replacement engine easily.