47-55.1 Engine compartment cleanup

[dsraven]

will you need circuit breaker with a relay panel like that? you can get circuit breakers that fit where a spade style fuse would go as well. maybe 2 birds........

[Matt_50]

To be honest. I don't know. Let me dig up the wiring diagram and try and figure out why its there. I want to think an extra safety thing for wiring.

[dsraven]

what I meant was, will you need to have seperate circuit breakers, like you have now, with the relay panel you put the link in for? it looks like you could use the fuse slots in the new box for an ATO style circuit breaker
https://wiringproducts.com/collectio...rcuit-breakers
that would mean you would be doing a rewire of the under hood area.
there is that slippery slope again. haha

[mick53]

You can buy heat shrink "tape" in a roll like electrical tape.

[Matt_50]

Its so close!

The hard line that came with the engine, c10 originally, was cut and the rubber line was put on the end to the carb.

I bought the edelbrock 8131 kit. I hoped it would be long enough to make it to the cut hard line but its not quite there.

What fittings could I use to make this work? I plan to rent a tool from parts store to flare the end.

Looks like right at a 1/4 inch gap

[mr48chev]

What you need is a straight -6 female by 3/8 hose barb fitting. 3 or 4 inches of high qualty 3/8 fuel hose and use the tube flare tool to make a bulb on the end of the hose to keep the hose on.

You make that bulb by doing the first step of a double flare but not completing the flare. I can do a photo demo of that if you need to see how to do it.


You can get the fitting out of the Earl's catalog at O'Reilly's.
Black part number should be AT700167ERL
Blue part number should be 700167ERL

[Matt_50]

Oh I know.... I thought I could connect these somehow without a rubber line. But once I got it and started looking up those fittings I was unsure. I was going for a hardline all the way.

I liked how this went under the carb and out of the way. Now I'd hate to use a rubber line. Buying this was supposed to get rid of rubber. Trust me I'm starting to think I should have gone plan A and tried to make a all new line.

Old hardline is 3/8. If I buy a fitting and flare it... can I put a coupler between these two? Or, how about a new hardline all the way from the filter to the pump? What fittings? I see adapters to the AN stuff to the other kind online.

And because the filter kit is AN and the pump is a double flare, if I make a new line I'm still stuck needing an adapter at either the filter or the pump anyways.


Yep. I thought this would look nicer. And it is just costing a little more. Way to go me.

I have both parts in the car. I'll run to the store after work. With my luck this old line won't flare well and ill need a new one anyway.

[dsraven]

personally, I like to start at the carb end and work back to the fuel line using the least amount of adapters and fittings as possible. partly because of cost and partly because every connection is a potential fuel leak on top of a hot engine. also not a fan of the aluminum fittings as they only seem to fit and not leak once, and thats if you didn't overtorque them the first time. also, every fitting is usually a restriction so I like to look at the size of the through hole in the fitting to see if it closely matches the ID of the fuel line. if not then I move on to a diffeent manufacturer or a different design. a union can be used to connect flared fittings but, again, check the ID of the union to see if it will be a restriction. a whole new fuel line can be bought for a resonable price and no "post pump" filter used or the new line could be installed, then an appropriate location for the fuel filter could be thought out and the new line cut at the correct location and then ends of the cut areas could be worked to accept the new fuel filter connection style or the old fashioned rubber hose connection at the filter with the proper fuel line. I prefer the fuel injection hose and clamps. gear clamps of the small size like this are cheaper but have the portion of the clamp right where the gear mechanism is that does not allow for bending of the clamp in that section like the band portion of the clamp bends to form an arc around the hose and tube. this means that section doesn't conform to the circle of the hose so they tend to get overtorqued to stop a small leak there and that only makes it worse. the hose then gets so much pressure from the rest of the clamp band that parts of the hose get pushed through the small slots in the hose band. the fuel injection clamps make a full circle arc around the hose and tubing for a waaay better clamping effort. there are also fuel line adapter fitting, high flow, that can be purchased, reasonable priced, to connect to the carb and have a proper hose or flare fitting for a filter connection. check the dorman site or AGS automotive solutions or just use google images and scroll through. also check transmission line adapters because a lot of vehicles that run aux trans coolers use similar fittings for connection of a hose to a steel line.
less is more
https://www.agscompany.com/products/...hose-1-per-bag
https://www.google.com/search?client...h=753&dpr=2.13

[mr48chev]

You will have to figure out how to get the 3/8 hardline to connect to the -6 fitting.

The same issue as the power steering leak in that thread. You have to make sure that you have done your homework and have the coorect fittings to make it work.

This -6 female to 3/8 tube fitting uses a compression sleeve rather than a flare. https://www.holley.com/products/plum...ts/AT165106ERL

You should be able to get away without making a new tube unless it needs a new tube. They probably come in black or blue and again you should be able to order it at O'Reilly's or another parts house that sells speed parts.

[Matt_50]

Just saw that power steering thread. I'll keep an eye on it.

I read so much stuff on proper flares, but I didn't look up the compression type stuff. Are the compression type prone to coming loose or anything?

[dsraven]

compression fittings on a steel line are a little better than on an aluminum line, like an engine oil cooler line. I have foud the aluminum lines "bend" under the compression fitting as the ferrule tightens. with steel that is less likely. with a mechanical fuel pump you are likely looking at less than 10 psi in the line, a compression fitting should be fine as long as the steel line is smooth where the compression fitting will fit up. there are a few ways to get to the finish line here, some are more costly than others.

[dsraven]

if you figure out what fitting is needed at the carb end then you can look for an adapter fitting with a steel line that has a hose fitting, or whatever fitting your fuel filter has on it's outlet, and then connect the dots from there.

[Matt_50]

I made the assumption that since this carb and these kits were common, that adapting to a stock line or pump would be easy too. I've learned that instead they really want to push their products. Makes sense.

So keep with this kit and use their 8123 braided line plus pump adapter. Made just for this very purpose. Another 50 bucks. Wonder how these lines don't rub on engine or alternator or water pump if ran in factory spot. At this point I kinda want to go this route. Just finish it out since I got the kit.

Or, a coupler + adapter + flare the steel line. Cheap but I don't think there is room. Can't cut that line much more and it will touch alternator if pushed back.

Or, rubber fitting adapter. But I want to get away from rubber lines.

Or, a compression adapter coupler. I know these are used a lot but I think I'd be paranoid.

Or lastly, throw out this 50 dollar kit, buy some hardline and make one. Like I should have done......

[mr48chev]

The fitting that I gave the link to above should get the job done.

No need for braided line unless you just have to have braided line.

I'd buy a spare for that 30 dollar filter and stick it in a sealed bag in the glove box because there may come a time when you need to replace it on the spot and they may be hard to get on short notice.

[Matt_50]

I ordered that fitting listed above. I might change it later but it'll work for now.

Also got my waterproof relay box in today. Very happy with it. Took some time to undo the old wires and relays and put it all together. I'll move this box to the firewall, just under where the wires enter the cab. The inner fender will be empty now.

Also got a 30 amp ato style circuit breaker. Unfortunately it was loose. I had a 30 amp fuse from a fan relay kit I didn't use and put it in there instead.

Will that work or should I get a circuit breaker that'll fit? Also, the relay wires are 14 ga. With Mark's help from MAD Electrical I had wired these up to that previous circuit breaker he suggested. I don't remember why but the wire from the power stud to the CB was fairly thick. 10 ga I think. I wired this new fuse with a 12 ga power wire and it is much closer to the power stud on the firewall. This is the 2 fan relays that are run together

Is that a good gauge? Other wire diagrams I looked up to double check myself used a 12ga for the power wire for the fuse for a fan relay.


The lights are different. He suggested the power to both of the light relays splice together and then connect to a fusible link and that connected to the power stud. I left that as it is. It has been a while but I remember he really seemed to like relays, obviously, and fusible links.

[my56chevytruck]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

Additional pictures.

what I see is the need to reroute the wiring. I ran all my wires down under! Either thru the inner fender and outer fender to the front and along the inside of the cab to the passenger side then exit the cab under your feet area to come out below eyesight to the engine compartment. You may have to extend some of the wiring to do so, good luck.

[dsraven]

relays allow a small switch in the cab to operate a large amp draw load from a remote location by using a relay-which is an electrically operated switch. this allows the load device to operate with a shorter run of large wire from the power source to the load. without a relay our dash switches would need to be larger and the wiring harness would be larger because the bulk of the larger wires running from the power source to the switch and out to the load. a relay is simply a switch operated by another switch. the relay needs to be protected with a fuse of some sort in both of the circuits, the load circuit and the switching circuit. the fuse in any circuit is best placed near the power supply, for obvious reasons, as the wire from the power supply to the fuse is unfused and therefore vulnerable to short circuit from mechanical damage or overload. the load circuit fuse would be determined by the type of load that is being switched. some loads, like an electric motor, have a higher draw when they first start up and so would benefit from a slow burn or slow blow fuse. a regular fast blow fuse will burn out at the hint of any over draw past their rating. a slow blow fuse will withstand a quick over draw but will fuse if the draw continues. some guys like to wire in a circuit breaker instead of a fuse because they can be reset, or in some cases they automatically reset themselves, and this deletes the need to carry extra fuses and then find/replace the burnt fuse in the circuit. the switch circuit wiring can be a smaller wire from the fuse panel in the cab out to the relay and doesn't require a large fuse because the load to operate the relay is small. this allows a less bulky harness under the dash
where and how you run the harness is up to you as far as keeping the underhood look clean or not. a lot of guys do a good job of hiding the harness but keep in mind the possibility of mechanical damage from rocks thrown off tires, water spray etc and also heat from exhaust etc. I have used plastic air brake line as a conduit for wiring on some oil field trucks and trailers. junction boxes are connected by water tight fittings and lids so unless a lense is broken there is no possibility of connections getting wet and the wiring is kept away from mechanical damage by securing the conduit with frame clamps.
there are tables to use for determining wire size for known amp draws over a predetermined length and these should be used so you can be sure your choice of wire, run over your choice of route, will be sufficient for the purpose. of coure using a good style of connection tool and adequate protection for terminals etc is a must. non insulated crimp connectors and dual wall shrink tube is what I use. that way you can see the crimp, give it a tug to ensure it crimped well and is holding, then slide the shrink tube over and heat it up so can see the glue coming out the ends of the tube. that way you know the connection is crimped well and proteted. a lot of guys will strip the wire, twist it, insert it into the crimp connector and squeeze it tight. this can result in wires being cut off inside the connector at the squeeze point because they overlap each other and the squeeze causes deformation to the point of breakage. anyway, there are lots of youtube videos on crimping wires if you are uncertain.
personally I would mount the fuse relay box where you want it and then wire the circuits to and from there in a way that suits you. then install the loom and retainers.