Saginaw 4 speed any good?

[thecatseye66]

Originally Posted by jimfulco

The notorious "shifting problem" is not the fault of the Saginaw trans. The factory shifters are just seriously mal-designed.

Jim is on to a good point.

That tranny I beat on endlessly when I was young had a brand-new Hurst shifter with tight bushings. Once it was aligned I never missed a shift. The tranny reacted well and I think I had a false sense of security because I had a Lakewood scatter-shield and a solid floor!!

I read an earlier post that said something about the Vega GT and afterward I remembered that is what the guy I bought mine from back in 1980 said about mine. It was built up from a stock Vega GT tranny, I just hadn't thought about it in years. I remember something about the cases being different but there was more.
Anybody know, more about the Vega GT Saginaws?
3 on the tree -- do you know any more about that setup?

[3 on the tree]

This was over 20 years ago, so my memory is a little fuzzy. My bro in laws boss pulled the trans from a Vega GT, and bolted it in place of the 3 speed in his 68 (?) GMC short bed. I don't remember him having to change anything, including the driveshaft. Of course, he had to deal with the shifter. I was amazed that Chevy had that kind of interchange ability. I pulled my dirttracker many times with that rig and it did fine. I think the GT was like a 75-77 model, had the plastic pointy nose. I was there when he did the swap, just can't remember all the details, other than it was incredibly easy.

[Lobo'74]

Thecatseye66 - I have a 4:11 rear with 16" (?) wheels and 31" tires.

Engine is a '79 350 Chevy V8, 4-bolt mains, with the following mods:
Machining work done by Terry Walters precision engines, Roanoke, VA.
Bored .030 over = 355 cubic inch
Align bored
Parallel top of block
New cam bearings
New freeze plugs
New hypereutectic pistons, flat top
Reconditioned connecting rods
Crankshaft main and rod journals ground .010 under
Rotating assembly balanced
Double roller timing chain
Melling high volume, high pressure oil pump (Melling thinks it is the M55-HV oil pump)
Speed Pro cam: Intake 224 deg dur, .450” lift; Exhaust 224 deg dur, .460” lift
New hydraulic lifters and push rods
World Industries part #012250-1 Sportsman II cylinder heads with 72cc chambers (9.5 to 1 compression), stainless steel valves 2.02 intake, 1.6 exhaust, heavy-duty valve springs, screw-in studs, guide plates

Crane part #11744-16 roller rocker arms (Rollers on both fulcrum and tip)
Edelbrock�* # 1470 750 CFM 4-barrel carburetor
Edelbrock performer RPM aluminum intake manifold
HEI distributor (Late-70’s style)
Dyna-max Headers

All the above done by previous owner.

I guess I am looking for something I can use around town without the huge gap between 2nd and 3rd that the 3 speed has. I want to be able to "accelerate briskly" on occasion, but I don't do burnouts or take it to the drag strip. I would like to see what my 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile times are some day, but for now I just want to get it back on the road. I use the truck all the time and its a pain to have it sit. I even had to borrow a neighbor's F*rd ranger to pick up some cabinets last weekend.

[thecatseye66]

Originally Posted by Lobo'74

I guess I am looking for something I can use around town without the huge gap between 2nd and 3rd that the 3 speed has. I want to be able to "accelerate briskly" on occasion, but I don't do burnouts or take it to the drag strip. I would like to see what my 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile times are some day, but for now I just want to get it back on the road. I use the truck all the time and its a pain to have it sit. I even had to borrow a neighbor's F*rd ranger to pick up some cabinets last weekend.

Damn, borrowing Fords? With the great small block setup like you have that is almost sacreligious

The ratios that slammed67 posted earlier should be a huge wealth of information when you are boneyarding or calling around about what is available. It seems the Saginaw has a more "granny" first as a general rule than any of the Muncie's but you are more concerned with the variance from 2nd to 3rd. Just keep your eye out and if you don't like the ratio in whatever you put in it you know it's an easy swap...and from the sounds of it, whatever you pick up you'll be able to sell pretty easy (if you don't like the ratio) in your area because it sounds like they are kind of scarce.

What kind of Rpms you getting out of that SB? Sounds like a sweet setup with all that balancing. One thing I have heard is that if you went through all the trouble of balancing your motor you should balance your flywheel too--might be a bunch of crap but I went through a couple of clutches in a Subaru until I had the flywheel turned and balanced so I know there is some credibility to that. Good luck, dude...keep us posted.

[jimfulco]

Does your 3-speed grind when you're trying to get reverse? If so, you may just have a clutch adjustment problem, in other words the clutch may not be completely disengaging, causing grinding when you try to get reverse, and also causing it to want to refuse to go into the forward (synchronized) gears. Changing the trans will not fix a mal-adjusted clutch.

But I do highly recommend the change-over. The extra gear between 2nd & 3rd will make you wonder why they ever made a 3-speed in the first place.

In the first two years of Vega production ('71-'72, GT or non-GT), they used an Opel transmission, with the shift linkage reaching over the top of the trans to both sides, etc. They went to the Saginaw for '73-'74, with the 3.11 low gear. These were also used in the 6-cyl./4-speed cars back around '67-'68, and shared some internal parts with late-model Corvairs. I don't know what they did after that, but I have seen a couple of Saginaws with the 3.50 low gear in some late-'70s Vega clones (Astre, Monza, etc.).

http://www.dandltransmission.com/saginaw.html has parts & ID info if you need it.

[Lobo'74]

jimfulco,
You know, I was thinking that the clutch adjustment might be the problem. No grinding trying for reverse, it just won't move into reverse even with the shifter disconnected and using the levers on the side of the tranny. It does "clunk" going into 2nd, and when it first occured it did grind loudly trying to go into 2nd. I've never adjusted one before, but I have the Chevy chassis manual and the assembly manual, as well as a chiltons for the '80 model (couldn't find one for the '79 running gear). Hopefully with all that literary help I'll be able to figure it out.

the catseye66,
The PO (who built the engine) said he would use 6500 as red line. Personally, I use 6000 as red line but did take it to 6500 a time or two when I first got it (before I found out stock red line was 5000 or so). It pulls strongly from 2000 or so all the way up until you let off the gas. Don't know where it would stop pulling, but I chicken out before the engine does.

For now the plan is to try and adjust the clutch, then get the saginaw 4 speed and see if its good or needs a rebuild. Install it and change the throw out bearing and any thing else exposed when changing tranny's. Then start looking for Chevy part number 3924783, the Saginaw 3 speed OD unit from '65 on up. Install it in the Saginaw 4 speed per the article link it mentioned earlier, and I'm done with the tranny!

By the way, when I've got it open how do I tell if I need to replace the clutch plates, how do I know if the pressure plat is still good, and can I upgrade to better clutch plates keeping the same pressure plate (if it is good)?