brake lines question

[shifty]

Got brake line questions, lots of them, and I really appreciate any solid answers. I'm a little lost for my hybrid setup and worried I'm going to buy a lot of extra crap I can't use. I'd like to (for once) get something right the first time on my truck.

So, long story short, I finished bolting my '77 crossmember into my truck this weekend, shaving unnecessary holes up front, drilling the new one , and 'wallering' out the one hole that needed it. I also got my rear axle separated from my trailing arms using a cuttoff wheel so I can get it cleaned up and ship off the trailing arms.

Now, when I put this back together in the next couple of weeks (hopefully), I have one big question mark about the brake lines - all of mine are shot and I guess I gotta start from scratch.

I have a '68 pickup with a '77 front crossmember and I am upgrading to discs in the front ('73-87 drop spindles), and keeping my stock '68 drums in the rear.

Now I need to sit down and figure out what all I need to order, and would love some help.

The long line to the rear - it's a single line which starts at a bulkhead near the passenger front shock mount on my truck, and it goes back to meet a soft line at the rear shock mount crossmember. Regarding the long line and rear axle line:

1) Are there any differences between the long line in a 67-70 pickup versus the 71-72 pickup versus the 73-87 pickup?

2) For the soft line that connects the long rear line to the "T" on the axle housing...is it the same on all three of those year ranges? Any suggestions on a good upgrade hose to use, or just stick with the stock line?

3) The rear 71-87 axle is wider. I guess this means I should just order a new "T" and a new rear line, or is there a better option?

Regarding the front lines...the '77 crossmember doesn't have the soft-line provisions on the rear driver and passenger side of the crossmember, but the two "M" clamp provision holes to hold the hard brake lines to the back side of the crossmember are there. Regarding the front lines...

4) It looks like the calipers may actually require routing the soft line across the front of the crossmember. would it be easier just to cut the soft line provisions off the '68 crossmember and weld them onto the '77 in the same spot, and just use the '68 front brake lines (for a complete '68 brake line setup)? Got any other thoughts, opinions suggestions?

5) Are the front soft lines the same in a 67-70 pickup versus the 71-72 pickup versus the 73-87 pickup?

6) With extreme drops like mine (bagged/ART arms), will I need to get longer rubber brake lines to handle the articulation involved with my bagged setup? If so, suggestions are appreciated.

7) While I want to get the stainless lines from Inline Tube, it's almost $200 just for the long line to the rear. I can't afford this much for a brake line right now. If I'm buying regular steel lines, what should I do to treat the outside to keep it from rusting? The PO of my truck just painted my current lines, but seriously - it just flakes off left and right if the line gets bent in the slightest bit.

8) Finally - last question about brakes - with me running 73-87 drop spindles in the front, do I need to get different dust shields to mount to the spindle?

Any and all help is appreciated.

[Shane]

You can buy the stainless one piece for $75 and the 2 piece front to rear line for $95 all day long from board vendors OR LMC ... dunno where the $200 for the one line came from, but they're on crack.

You can pretty much purchase ALL of the hard lines for less than $250

$120 - master cyl to prop valve to soft lines (complete front less rubber lines)
$ 55 - front to rear "long" line - 1 pc (2 pc line is $ 75)
$ 45 - rear axle lines
---------
$220 plus shipping (prices from LMC page 142 - the lines I purchased from LMC were drop shipped from Inline Tube)

[shifty]

inlinetube charges $155 for the stock steel brake line, $185 for stainless.

I saw GMC Pauls wants $115 for stainless long line, I think. I just emailed them for help and a quote.

Damn - sounds like you got a smokin' deal. If I could pay $220 to have everything I needed shipped, I'd jump all over it. I guess I gotta figure in ~$85-100 for the combi- or prop-valve as well, and the bracket to hold it to the MC.

[Shane]

do a search on ebay for proportioning valve .... lots of hits for them with bracket for less than $100

P.S. remember on a disc disc system that a larger bore master cylinder is recommended. i'm using a mid 70's Corvette MC ... it bolted right up to the stock booster.

[shifty]

$5-10 at local junkyard, from what I remember. I'll check out that lead though. If I can get it for that @ eBay, there is bound to be a parts store with one for roughly the same.

[Shane]

not likely to find these prop valves at your local parts store ... these are pretty much marketed to the non-oem street rod folks ... me personally wouldn't trust junk yard parts on my braking system.

[shifty]

I don't do used parts with brakes or steering, but at the same time I don't necessarily trust eBay parts after getting a few craptastic pieces.

I found one at a hotrod shop. It was for disc/drum 73-78 truck. It looks like (and auction sounds like) it mounts to the framerail or crossmember, though. Which leads me to believe that I still have NFC what I need for hard lines. The only line I have figured out is the rear axle line ('68 hard line) and the long line from rear to front.

[Shane]

are you looking for a disc/drum prop valve or a disc/disc valve?

[shifty]

disc/drum.

i'm running 73-80 (87?) discs in front on a '77 crossmember.

and i can't seem to figure out how the hard lines up front are run on the '77. on the '68 crossmember, the hard line terminates on the crossmember on a provision/tab. there is no such provision on the '77 crossmember. i can take pics of the two if it helps.

Front provision:





Rear provision (note the sideways kick-up at the top coil, it's a bad angle):

[Shane]

oh ... if you are running disc / drum then run the owm/stock prop valve for 73 - whatever year, they are a dime a dozen, real easy fix.

I thought you had rear discs ... different ball game.

[gringoloco]

If you look at the '77 upper arm, you will see a slot that mounts the brake line to it. There is a bracket attached to the line that bolts on here. The "M" clip is used where the line passes through the frame- this is also where the hard/soft lines meet.

The '73-up also mounts the prop valve to the front(radiator) crossmember. This makes for a much cleaner install IMO, keeping all the clutter away from the MC.

Also, be wary that the '73-up soft lines may not work with the early calipers and vice/versa. The banjo fittings and sizes vary depending on what you use. I've had to grind on some calipers to make 'em work in a pinch- and I don't think you wanna do that. Best just to match calipers/hoses...

[GMBowtie79]

LMC should have a complete hard line kit around $250 for stainless, CPP will have the master cylinder(various different prices)and perportioning valve about $40,and if you want to finish it up nice Brothers Trucks has a 3 piece braded steel line kit for about $100. that should be about all you'll need.

[shifty]

I have yet to find a prop valve for $40 anywhere. Even stock. $60 is the cheapest I found yet.

Hey gringo, you got a pic of that M-tab and slot you're talking about? And mounting of the prop valve? I need to see all this, I think.

BTW - when you say "early calipers" - I think the ones I ordered were either for a '75 or '77.

Sounds like I just need to order all of my front disc lines for a '75, and do everything starting at the long line and going back to be for a '68 and hope I can find an adapter to fit.

Two other related questions:

First - with these being hydraulic lines, should be a no-brainer, but teflon paste is a requirement, eh?

Second - any advice on breaking free nuts from drum backing plates and other places? I'm having one hell of a time with mine. The nuts round off before I can get them to break free. The only luck I've had has been cutting the line super short and using a ratchet to brake the old line out.

[Rollie396]

I guess you could try a "good" line wrench.I don't know if that exists,but don't expect a habour freight wrench to work.
If you're replacing the lines anyway,then I'd just get on it with vicegrips.I've done this with stubborn fuel pump lines and reused them(retightened them with a flat wrench too).You just need to make sure you get on the nut as straight as possible,and as tight as you can manage.
This also worked on my old brakelines,but it sounds like you're replacing anyhow,so anything goes,right?

[Shane]

NO sealant (tape or paste) s to be used on brake connectors.

When tightened correctly the two opposing flares make the seal, NOT the threads.

[krue]

Here's a tip on the fittings, use a line wrench with a vice grip clamped on the end of the wrench to prevent the wrench from slipping and rounding the fitting.

[Primered_69]

Krue I am not understanding can you try to explain your tip one other way for me. It sounds good but just want ot make sure of what you are saying

[krue]

Put the line wrench on the fitting, then clamp the vice grips onto the end of the wrench that is on the fitting, this keeps the wrench end from spreading (gotta have a good bit of room for all this). I'm at work or I would take a picture of what I'm telling you about.

[shifty]

After some heavy searching through project/build threads, I managed to find Ken's setup (N2TRUX) from his build, but can't find any better pictures. Anyone got any pics of their front brake line setup w/o a front clip on? Would save me a trip to to the junkyard

[gringoloco]

Check this one out Shifty- At the top of the pic, you can see how the line is attached to the edge of the UCA and the rubber/steel bulkhead is at the frame...

[shifty]

Hmm, guess I'll need to go find other people using the ART arms and try to figure out what they did.

[gringoloco]

Yeah, I don't know if there are provisions for stock lines on them or not. Here's a pic of prop valve location on the newer trucks- the lines are non-stock. Dunno what's going on there...

[shifty]

Do the 71-72 soft lines route across the front of the UCA also?

Do the 71-72 hard lines route like the 73-87 lines (with prop valve bolted up in front like that)?

[SCOTI]

If routing the brake lines like a post-73 truck, use some adel clamps on the ART arms to secure the rubber/flex line between the caliper & the frame bulkhead 'port'.

[GMBowtie79]

I got my prop valve from CPP booth at a swap meet for $35 but I also got a rear disc conversion kit at the same time. They threw in a bunch of upgrades free like braided steel lines for the rear calipers, & drilled and slotted rotors so they probably gave me a deal on that also. CPP(classicperform.com)shows them for $75 either disc/drum & disc/disc
Mines a 79 if that makes a differance they told me thy are the same only differance is mounting location. I just did the complete brake system on mine 8 months ago when i converted to rear disc. all the other prices are what I paid so they should be somewhat accurate.