benefits of the disc brake dana 44

[bad_turbo]

I have a '67 1/2 ton 4x4 burb with '68 3/4 ton axles front and rear. Of course the front axle is the dana 44 with drum brakes. Just wondering what is the advantage of swapping in the later model front dana 44 with disc brakes, other than the disc brakes? Is there another reason to do this swap? I don't really see whats so bad about the drum brakes.

[msgross]

I have heard that the turning radius is better with the newer axle, never tested it though. I did it for the disc brakes since mine were pretty shot.

If you lift it then you can add a raised steering arm to the newer axle too. If your brakes are good then no need to swap...

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by msgross

I have heard that the turning radius is better with the newer axle, never tested it though. I did it for the disc brakes since mine were pretty shot.

If you lift it then you can add a raised steering arm to the newer axle too. If your brakes are good then no need to swap...

This is accurate the closed knuckle doesn't turn as well.

Also, stronger ujoints, easier to find parts (Open Dana 44 is still in use today).

[1969 GMC]

ford through some deep water, then get back to us on how you like those drum brakes so much.

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by 1969 GMC

ford through some deep water, then get back to us on how you like those drum brakes so much.

Then again, the closed knuckles are nice for that, keeping the water out of the innards...

Just sucks to work on them for maintenance.

[Yukon Jack]

My 69 K20 has the closed knuckle axle and with the 35"s the turning radius is terrible. When I make a turn, I often have no choice but go into the other lane a bit.

I put my 35"s on my 70 K5 with an open knuckle axle and the difference shocked me. I stay entirely in my lane without evening having to be in full lock when I turn.

That alone would be reason enough for me to recommend you make the change.

[1969 GMC]

Originally Posted by grendel

Then again, the closed knuckles are nice for that, keeping the water out of the innards...

Just sucks to work on them for maintenance.

Hehe, when I had mine apart, the knuckles were full of the nastiest 35 year old oil and water milkshake you could imagine. The seals on the ball and socket don't work very well. I'd rather stick with an open knuckle axle and get some of the Mad4wd outer axle tube seals, and just replace ujoints when they need it.

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by 1969 GMC

Hehe, when I had mine apart, the knuckles were full of the nastiest 35 year old oil and water milkshake you could imagine. The seals on the ball and socket don't work very well. I'd rather stick with an open knuckle axle and get some of the Mad4wd outer axle tube seals, and just replace ujoints when they need it.

Well, they did 35 years ago (the seals )

I do like Larry's outer seals. I run them in all my front axles.

[msgross]

wish I would have known about those seals when I built my axle... oh well...

[wibilly]

grendel tell us about these Larry's outer seals. when i tore mine apart [first time ever] i thought it was just rediculis that there was no outer seal other than the rusted off tin dust shield which i had to stamp my own replacements because i couldnt find them. my axel tubes were just full of crud

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by wibilly

grendel tell us about these Larry's outer seals. when i tore mine apart [first time ever] i thought it was just rediculis that there was no outer seal other than the rusted off tin dust shield which i had to stamp my own replacements because i couldnt find them. my axel tubes were just full of crud

Easy enough:

http://madmfg.com/drivetrain-1/dana-...-seal-485.html

It seals at the outer C of the axle.

[Husker]

I swapped over to power disc on my 44 1/2 ton and it stops almost to good. Lot better to have disc than drums. Thanks for the post on the seals.
Ron

[cobinder]

Ok, so tell me again, where do these seals go? Theres not much room in there.

[Husker]

The outer portion of the axle right inside of the Knuckle.
Ron

[67Cowboy]

I don't mean to Hi-jack, but I have a 69 K10 with the old closed knuckles also, and I was curious what all model axles will work in place of the old drum brake style. Our Suburban is a daily driver and I see a lot of 73-87 suburbans that people are selling for parts; and most of the 4x4 guys in my area want the 3/4 and 1 ton axles with low gears so I should be able to find some factory 1/2 axles with tall highway gears to work great for me if I knew which ones would work. I would appreciate any help, I've tried doing a search here but haven't found a list or anything to know for sure !?!?!?!?!?

[LONGHAIR]

Why would you put those on a closed knuckle front axle? The axle joints are designed to be lubricated by the gear lube that gets out there. There is supposed to be a "felt" type wiper that is held in place by the metal C-shaped strips. I'm not saying that it is the greatest design ever, but "sealing" the gear lube away from the axle joints does not seem like the answer either.

BTW, I am not a fan of using those on open knucle axles either. There is no a "sealing surface" on the axle and it's too far away from a bearing anyway. The axle will tear that seal up very quickly.

Up-grading to a later model open axle is really the best way to go.

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by 67Cowboy

I don't mean to Hi-jack, but I have a 69 K10 with the old closed knuckles also, and I was curious what all model axles will work in place of the old drum brake style. Our Suburban is a daily driver and I see a lot of 73-87 suburbans that people are selling for parts; and most of the 4x4 guys in my area want the 3/4 and 1 ton axles with low gears so I should be able to find some factory 1/2 axles with tall highway gears to work great for me if I knew which ones would work. I would appreciate any help, I've tried doing a search here but haven't found a list or anything to know for sure !?!?!?!?!?

Any of the later model axles will bolt into the front. They maintain the same spring pad spacing. Later model 1 ton rears will bolt in without modifiying the spring pads. 3/4 rears (later) require cutting the spring pads off and re-welding them.

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

Why would you put those on a closed knuckle front axle? The axle joints are designed to be lubricated by the gear lube that gets out there. There is supposed to be a "felt" type wiper that is held in place by the metal C-shaped strips. I'm not saying that it is the greatest design ever, but "sealing" the gear lube away from the axle joints does not seem like the answer either.

BTW, I am not a fan of using those on open knucle axles either. There is no a "sealing surface" on the axle and it's too far away from a bearing anyway. The axle will tear that seal up very quickly.

Up-grading to a later model open axle is really the best way to go.

You don't use them on a closed model knuckle. Open knuckle only. Have you ever used them, or seen them?

Funny, I have more than 25K miles on one set of them and no problems with them tearing up.

The spindle bearings keep the axles centered, as does the seal itself.

[LONGHAIR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1969 GMC
Hehe, when I had mine apart, the knuckles were full of the nastiest 35 year old oil and water milkshake you could imagine. The seals on the ball and socket don't work very well. I'd rather stick with an open knuckle axle and get some of the Mad4wd outer axle tube seals, and just replace ujoints when they need it.

Well, they did 35 years ago (the seals )

I do like Larry's outer seals. I run them in all my front axles.

This suggests that those would work on a closed knuckle axle too. If I miss-interpreted, my fault.

The spindle bearings keep the axles centered, as does the seal itself.

In the first place, the spindle bearing is on the other side of the axle joint and most of the ones I have serviced were shot anyway. Any stiffness in the joint "works" really hard on that bearing and the lock-out hub's guts too. The other end of the inner axle is quite some distance away. Seals are always very close to a bearing of some kind, they are not "supportive". It was never designed to have a seal there, so there isn't a place for one to ride.

"Most" of the miles of street driven 4x4s are un-locked, so the amount of miles really doesn't mean anything. I see that as a un-necessary expense for zero net gain, that's all.

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

This suggests that those would work on a closed knuckle axle too.



In the first place, the spindle bearing is on the other side of the axle joint and most of the ones I have serviced were shot anyway. Any stiffness in the joint "works" really hard on that bearing and the lock-out hub's guts too. The other end of the inner axle is quite some distance away. Seals are always very close to a bearing of some kind, they are not "supportive". It was never designed to have a seal there, so there isn't a place for one to ride.

"Most" of the miles of street driven 4x4s are un-locked, so the amount of miles really doesn't mean anything. I see that as a un-necessary expense for zero net gain, that's all.

I never stated what axles I am running. All of mine are open knuckle. I swap out the closed knuckle axles whenever I get a chance.

Miles can indicate wear,when crap gets in the tube, or you do water crossings, contaminates rot the axleshafts, the axle tube itself, reduce lubrication, increasing heat. Also, most differential seals are shot as well. Most axles built after the 80's use a unit bearing and spin the axles, increasing wear on the front. These keep all the crud out, whether there's a disconnect or not. I have them on 3 separate axles, 2 Dana60's with hubs and 1 Dana30 with unit beraings.

Zero net gain? I really have differing experience.

Again, have you ever run these or examined an axle that did?

[LONGHAIR]

Again, have you ever run these or examined an axle that did?

No, as stated, I don't see the need.

So many of those street cruisers out there never turn an axle, so the wear is minimal. That is why so many of them have the axle joints "sieze" in at least one direction. One side moves with the steering, but the first time it does get locked-in.....

If you like them, great. The fact that you work on your own stuff is great too, but many guys can't/don't.

Would you "pay" someone to install them?

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

No, as stated, I don't see the need.

So many of those street cruisers out there never turn an axle, so the wear is minimal. That is why so many of them have the axle joints "sieze" in at least one direction. One side moves with the steering, but the first time it does get locked-in.....

If you like them, great. The fact that you work on your own stuff is great too, but many guys can't/don't.

Would you "pay" someone to install them?

Yes. Most "street cruisers" today don't even have lock out hubs, so they do turn the axles 100% of the time.

However, I work on all of my own crap. I used to be a dealer tech, still have ASE Master tech certification as well as factory certs for GM, Toyota and Mitsubishi.

[LONGHAIR]

Yes. Most "street cruisers" today don't even have lock out hubs, so they do turn the axles 100% of the time.

We are talking about old trucks here(straight axle)...not late model SUVs. Although there are a few "Full-time" 203s still running around, even most of them have lock-outs.

This started with closed knuckle Dana44s and you have dragged it up to shift-on-the-fly independants?

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

We are talking about old trucks here(straight axle)...not late model SUVs. Although there are a few "Full-time" 203s still running around, even most of them have lock-outs.

This started with closed knuckle Dana44s and you have dragged it up to shift-on-the-fly independants?

You were talking about these wearing out or not working when I offered the fact that I have these in a truck and it's gone 25K miles (axleshafts spun all 25K of those miles). I offered alternate evidence, supported by my own experience. You offer opinion, without fact. BTW, my truck is not a shift on the fly independent, but uses a normal shifter on the floor. I also have these in a open knuckle Dana 60s, one in my "68" K30 hybrid.

What the axle is, or is in, doesn't alter the fact that it seals an axle shaft at the inner "c", providing tremendous value.

It should also be mentioned that I did not bring these seals up, but validated their usage.

Additionally, this board covers almost all years of GM trucks, inclusive of the models I mention. This particular forum is a generic 4x4 forum, inclusive of unit bearing hubbed trucks, is it not? The subject is about a disk brake 44. Does not say anything about the year or configuration of the axle assembly. You may assume it's about an early axle, I do not. I will also add technology where required.

[67Cowboy]

Grendel, I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to post that info; It is so hard for me to find anything on this website for some reason. I always get a 100 threads that are not at all what I'm looking for. I would appreciate it if some one could tell me of a website that explains what all the "alphabet soup codes" mean and exactly where to look on the rear end housing to find find them. Didn't there use to be a tech section to this site ??? I found a guy that has a bunch of axles he has pulled when rebuilding or beefing up 4X4s they are all 1/2 ton high gear ratio; I just need to know how to go in there and find a set of late model 3.07 axles to put in my 69 Suburban.

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by 67Cowboy

Grendel, I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to post that info; It is so hard for me to find anything on this website for some reason. I always get a 100 threads that are not at all what I'm looking for. I would appreciate it if some one could tell me of a website that explains what all the "alphabet soup codes" mean and exactly where to look on the rear end housing to find find them. Didn't there use to be a tech section to this site ??? I found a guy that has a bunch of axles he has pulled when rebuilding or beefing up 4X4s they are all 1/2 ton high gear ratio; I just need to know how to go in there and find a set of late model 3.07 axles to put in my 69 Suburban.

You're welcome.

http://www.americanclassic.com/paint_test.asp

Decoder. Most of them are there.