Starting My 5.3 Swap....Computer Questions?

[Ford Assassin]

Hey guys, recently I bought a 1969 C10 SWB Fleetside as another project, but one that I could start with my [soon to be] wife (she loves working on my toys). Anyway, I want something dependable and something that wouldn't kill my mpg and still have a decent amount HP/TQ. After weighing cost (among other things) I decided on swapping in a 5.3 Vortec engine.

Today I bought a complete setup (engine, computer, harness, MAF, etc) from a rolled low mileage 2004 Burb. I already have the engine mounting handled, so that's out of the way. I will prob end up running full length headers too since it looks like I would have to trim too much of the stock frame to make the stock manifolds work.

I did not buy a transmission since I have 28" tall tires and 3.08 rear gears. That means the TH350 tranny I have will be bolted to the 5.3.

I did several searches and found that the stock computer will need to be tweaked to work for me (I figured). I have read that the un-used inputs can be 'edited' off the computer and I have also read something about 'pinning'? I made a list of things that would not be used in my case, but I am fuzzy on how this is done..... (please explain both).

-VATS
-EGR
-Speedo input from trans
-Rear O2 sensors (no cats)

Okay, lay it on me. What else do I need? Any help is thanked in advance.

Thanks guys!!

[Sicmaro]

your going to need to have the computer file tuned to delete some codes, vats, and to set the file as a manual trans since you wont be using the 4l60e.

an 04 motor is drive by wire if I'm correct. the easiest way is to get a cable throttle body and add the wire into the pcm for it. this is what i did to my 04 Tahoe motor.... turned it into a 99 truck basically.

pinning is when you actually remove the wire from the large connector that connects to the pcm. this is not required just helps get rid of some clutter.

i re-pinned my whole harness to make it match a 1999 silverado and tuned the computer to match the year. and added a cable throttle body.

i forgot what else you asked, so feel free to ask more haha I've done 4 swaps and have worked on many of these motors at my last job.........

[Ford Assassin]

Thanks for the reply. I think I am going to go ahead and keep the drive by wire throttle. I have the matching gas pedal and control box (came with the engine). It should be too much hassle to keep it.

Where do I buy the pinning tool? I would like to eliminate some unused wires from the harness if they aren't going to be used.

Another question, what long tube headers have you found that'll work in these trucks? I found these on eBay, but I am unsure if they will fit or not.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02...3286.m14.l1318

I am going to use Brother's Tubular Engine Stands and Trans-Adapt plates to mount the 5.3 if that matters at all. I like how they place the motor farther back compared to other kits sold like ECE's kit.

Thanks again.

[Sicmaro]

to un pin the wires all you need is a small flat screw driver. you remove the large color plastic clips and use the screw driver to pull up the tab on each wire you want to remove.

I ran the stock manifolds..... do a search for the headers, a board vendor i believe has some made for the swap.

i made mounts and modded the stock frame side mounts, but am now changing to the tubular ones so i can run a/c.

[Ford Assassin]

If you mean Doug Thorley Headers then I'll pass. I will totally agree that they are an awesome builder of headers, I don't want to pay the price.

I think I've found a pair of 1998 F-Body exhaust manifolds. I'll just run those for the low cost. The guys running the ECE kits say the 1998 exhaust manifolds work without any mods. I hope the same is true with the engine 3" farther back than the ECE kit places the engine.

Any idea?

Thanks.

[LockDoc]

I don't know if this site will cover your engine or not but it's about the best site I've found on injection swaps.

http://www.chevythunder.com/index.htm

If you go down to the "1986-1992 TPI ECM Pin-outs" section and click on it, then scroll almost all the way down that page it shows a picture of a multi-tool used for removing wire terminals from the blocks. It lists the name and part number of the tool.

When you have that info go back to the main page and scroll down a ways farther for the newer vehicle applications.

LockDoc

[Hart_Rod]

The Fbody manifolds should work with the engine being set back. I've got an extra set that I paid $40 +shipping for. Let me know if you are interested. I have a set of the Doug Thorley headers on my burb and they fit awesome. You can get a set for $560 if you tell them you're a board member here. The cable throttle body is a pretty easy switch, but the throttle by wire is wwwaaayyyy cooler, . Good luck with the install.

[Ford Assassin]

Originally Posted by Hart_Rod

The Fbody manifolds should work with the engine being set back. I've got an extra set that I paid $40 +shipping for. Let me know if you are interested.

If they are for sure 1998 manifolds? If so I'll take'em (pending shipping costs). How much to ship to a business address in Bakersfield, Ca. 93313? Thanks!!

[Hart_Rod]

Originally Posted by Ford Assassin

If they are for sure 1998 manifolds? If so I'll take'em (pending shipping costs). How much to ship to a business address in Bakersfield, Ca. 93313? Thanks!!

Looks like $40 using FEDEX and 40 lbs, LMK.

[jkade]

Originally Posted by Ford Assassin

If you mean Doug Thorley Headers then I'll pass. I will totally agree that they are an awesome builder of headers, I don't want to pay the price.

I think I've found a pair of 1998 F-Body exhaust manifolds. I'll just run those for the low cost. The guys running the ECE kits say the 1998 exhaust manifolds work without any mods. I hope the same is true with the engine 3" farther back than the ECE kit places the engine.

Any idea?

Thanks.

Get on ls1tech and get you some mac mid lengths for a f body. The passenger side fits perfect but you will have to trim the top of the frame on the drivers side. You can get them cheap and the are near as good as a set of long tubes. You can always use a fbody computer and harness to make things look a lot better and you can hide all the wires, computer, and fuse box inside the truck if you wanted to go that route.

If it where me and I was going to have to have a tune on my computer and everybody does I would go ahead and put a cam in the motor since these motors are the easiest on the face of the planet to install a cam in. Maybe get a patriot 226/226 585/585 and that will make all the difference in the world on how the motor performs and you will still get decent mileage. You can find a cam used for under $200 bucks all day long.

I am in no way trying to knock hart_rod out of a sale on his manifolds considering they are worth every penny.

[Ford Assassin]

I also ordered the fuel pump and LSx mount adapters.

[Sammy]

The smaller Vortec I put in my GMC, I carbed and mated to a 350 turbo tranny. Anyway after getting everything done went to crank it & the starter wouldn't engage the flywheel. Without pulling the flywheel I found out that a GM corvette starter that has diagonal bolts sits slightly more than 3/8 inch closer to the flywheel. This saved me alot of additional work. And if you haven't entertained the idea of a matching starter you might before you mate your tranny to be sure before installing. I have no idea if this will apply to your situation but worth looking into it. Good luck.

[Ford Assassin]

Originally Posted by Sammy

The smaller Vortec I put in my GMC, I carbed and mated to a 350 turbo tranny. Anyway after getting everything done went to crank it & the starter wouldn't engage the flywheel. Without pulling the flywheel I found out that a GM corvette starter that has diagonal bolts sits slightly more than 3/8 inch closer to the flywheel. This saved me alot of additional work. And if you haven't entertained the idea of a matching starter you might before you mate your tranny to be sure before installing. I have no idea if this will apply to your situation but worth looking into it. Good luck.

Thanks for the tip, but lucky for me I scored the stock starter with the rest of the engine.

[Ford Assassin]

I have another question. My engine has the returnless style fuel rails. I was planning on running a Walbro 255 inline pump and a Corvette regulator/fuel filter (Napa 3737) w/return. I can't remember and the truck is in storage, but should my stock fuel system have a factory return line? I know my old '74 K5 did for the emissions stuff, but I can't recall if my '69 is setup the same way.

[Hart_Rod]

Originally Posted by Ford Assassin

I have another question. My engine has the returnless style fuel rails. I was planning on running a Walbro 255 inline pump and a Corvette regulator/fuel filter (Napa 3737) w/return. I can't remember and the truck is in storage, but should my stock fuel system have a factory return line? I know my old '74 K5 did for the emissions stuff, but I can't recall if my '69 is setup the same way.

This is how I did mine:

[Ford Assassin]

Originally Posted by Hart_Rod

This is how I did mine:

Looks good. What type of fittings are those?

[shifty]

somewhere around page 12 or 13 (i think?) in the swap thread (mine) linked in my signature a couple lines down from these words covers an install similar to Rob's, and it gives all the part numbers as well.

[Ackattack]

Rather than spending several hundred on having the computer tuned, you can pick up a copy of HP tuner for $500. This is what I'll be using for my 68 pickup. Luckily for me I can also use it for my vette and '05 pickup too. Plus I split the cost with a buddy, so it only set me back $250.

I'm sure as time goes on, you'll want to change some things, and will need to have the computer retuned for the changes (for example, going with a 4L60E down the road)

I used some camaro longtube headers in mine, but I don't have the rest of the exhaust done yet. Should work out well though.

[Hart_Rod]

Originally Posted by Ackattack

Rather than spending several hundred on having the computer tuned, you can pick up a copy of HP tuner for $500. This is what I'll be using for my 68 pickup. Luckily for me I can also use it for my vette and '05 pickup too. Plus I split the cost with a buddy, so it only set me back $250.

I'm sure as time goes on, you'll want to change some things, and will need to have the computer retuned for the changes (for example, going with a 4L60E down the road)

Can you send some more information on the HP tuner stuff? I've thought about doing that for mine but was unsure of the cost and the complexity. Does it have provisions for a supercharger?

[Sicmaro]

my fuel system i changed out the fuel rail to the return style. its regulated on the rail, so no need for the vette filter. i ran a holley red pump first that feed my walbro 255 in line. works greats.......

[Ackattack]

http://www.hptuners.com/order.php

HP tuner is a software that allows you to scan all of the sensors of the engine, and modify just about every table the computer uses to make fuel/air and timing adjustments, as well as transmission control, delete checks for emissions stuff (EGR, rear O2, etc), delete VATS, and a few other things. It is not a plug in hand held unit where you just load a new tune....you do the tuning yourself, and therefore you can get into a lot of trouble if you don't know what you're doing (go lean and boooomm there goes your engine) so you do have to use it cautiously.


I also have a wideband O2 sensor hooked up on my corvette, which allows me to get much more precise air/fuel ratio readings than the factory narrowband O2 sensors.

[Ford Assassin]

Update:

I will be running Hedman full length headers ('98-'02 F-Body).

I also just bought a 4L65e w/converter from a wreaked 2004 GTO with 13k miles on the clock.

I sent the complete harness and PCM to www.Wait4MePerformance.com for modification. They will edit out the VATS, rear o2's, and any other emissions crap, plus they'll setup the output for my Auto Meter electric tach/speedo and set the shift points, rev limiter, and trans shift firmness. They are also going to add a fuel pump relay and remove any plugs/wires not being used, then re-looming the whole harness. Lastly they'll install a 'canned' performance tune for 91 octane gas and my long tubes. For $350 I figure I can't beat that.

[ed2552]

Cool, so you will have power all day long, but still get good mileage w/ the highway gears and OD. Sounds like fun to me!

[Pl4yboy]

Originally Posted by Ford Assassin

Update:

I will be running Hedman full length headers ('98-'02 F-Body).

I also just bought a 4L65e w/converter from a wreaked 2004 GTO with 13k miles on the clock.

I sent the complete harness and PCM to www.Wait4MePerformance.com for modification. They will edit out the VATS, rear o2's, and any other emissions crap, plus they'll setup the output for my Auto Meter electric tach/speedo and set the shift points, rev limiter, and trans shift firmness. They are also going to add a fuel pump relay and remove any plugs/wires not being used, then re-looming the whole harness. Lastly they'll install a 'canned' performance tune for 91 octane gas and my long tubes. For $350 I figure I can't beat that.

I wouldn't have used W4m. I've been a member of performancetrucks, fullsizechevy, and ls1truck for a long time and have heard some horror stories about them. If you still have a chance, I'd contact Allen Nelson from Nelson Performance about fixing you up. Lifetime changes for free, 100% excellent customer service, and he'll work with you on about anything.

[Pl4yboy]

Originally Posted by Ackattack

http://www.hptuners.com/order.php

HP tuner is a software that allows you to scan all of the sensors of the engine, and modify just about every table the computer uses to make fuel/air and timing adjustments, as well as transmission control, delete checks for emissions stuff (EGR, rear O2, etc), delete VATS, and a few other things. It is not a plug in hand held unit where you just load a new tune....you do the tuning yourself, and therefore you can get into a lot of trouble if you don't know what you're doing (go lean and boooomm there goes your engine) so you do have to use it cautiously.


I also have a wideband O2 sensor hooked up on my corvette, which allows me to get much more precise air/fuel ratio readings than the factory narrowband O2 sensors.

Be careful. If you don't know what you're doing... you're right... BOOM. I would suggest having someone who knows what they're doing walk you through it the first few times.