Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.

[gavotter333]

I need some opinion and advice from other members. This is a long one however you need all the info to understand where I am at. HELP

I have a 1972 Chevy c10 with a 350, 3 speed auto. Its a lovely beast and you can see her in the pics associated with my user name.

Ill cut out as much detail from my problem to give you an idea so you can comment. Easy way to tell this. Moving from San Francisco to new york. So decided to drive and take my very well maintained and loved truck with me.

Now I blew the 350 on xmas eve last year on the I5 literally at the exit to Bakersfield CA and took the truck to an engine builder there( I will omit there name as I am still communicating) To have a totally new engine built. 5K later merry xmas to me I had a new engine. Without getting into too much tech at the moment its got a comp cam ported polished heads and everything that you would want. I can go into detail if needed. Was what I had originally planned to put in when the assumed perfectly good 350 aged a little more.

What i then did is drive to phoenix where shortly after leaving Bakersfield I noticed oil leaking from the bottom of the engine at a rather dramatic pace. In fact every 20-40 miles i was replacing oil. I was very very careful to check that the oil level did not get low and continued to drive very carefully and went to a shop in phoenix to let them have a look. They were a friend of the shop that built the engine.

We discovered that the oil pan was not bolted on very well at all and that the reused rocker covers from my original motor were rubbish. At this point I really do have to mention that this motor was built over xmas. Some of the bits from my original engine are still there. There was nothing wrong with them however none of them are in the core of the new small block. Only the starter, HEI distributor and edelbrock 750 carb, Alternator and exterior bits were reused. I remember that the rocker covers had not been the best on my original 350 so I went and got some edelbrock aluminum ones and new gaskets and tightened it all up. it seemed it was all good.

Changed the oil and proceeded to drive. engine went fine however continued to burn about 1 quart of oil for every 200 miles driven. Now I was on the freeway at 65 Mph average/. Kept it low and did not push the engine although the guy that built it assured me that it was ok and would not break.

This is where it gets interesting. I continued to drive to New York and have to say made it here fine. All be it using lots and lots of quarts of oil.

So after communicating on a very regular basis with the builder who was and still is very helpful took it to a new mechanic here that seems to be good and knows his muscle cars and engines. I was told by the builder to put 30 weight oil back in the engine and a new filter. So this is what I have done. We also checked the timing and it was at 4 deg. I called the builder and he said it should be at 12-14 deg. we adjusted it and wow She flies. lowered the idle too as it was having a lot of run on. On one occasion it was bad and smoke came out of the bonnet like there was a fire in the engine. Not so good. Not doing this now.

Now this is where it is not so good. Its still eating oil at the same rate and although there is no smell or leaks its still using tons of oil. This leads to a new set of problems. After the oil change the passenger side of the engine has become very tappy. So much infact that I can not drive it and think there has either been head or valve damage. There is a loud tapping noise that seems to come and go. Sounds a little like an exhaust leak. ( however its not) and its not firing properly like a cylinder is not there. Its hard to tell with a really lumpy cam when you start it up but when it settles down it when revved a little sounds horrible. There is a loud banging along with the tapping. I have replaced all the spark wires to eliminate this as a possibility. Its just not firing properly.

So after all this if you have read this far. Would you think that the freshly built engine with all the top Quality stuff from a really good shop is cactus. Its now done 4000 miles and I cant drive it. Or is it just adjustments.

I am unsure of the law in California however i picked this motor up on the 27 dec and its not running like a 5k motor to me .. There seems to be too many things going wrong.

Help......

[WorkinLonghorn]

There is a loud banging along with the tapping.

I'm not an engine builder but that sounds like major mechanical failure to me.
If you were to take out all the spark plugs and crank it over with a compression gage held or screwed in one cylinder at a time (three or so revolutions each time) you could determine if there is something like a thrown rod,bent valve etc.
Take off the valve covers and see if all valves are working properly.
Check the oil for metal shavings.
Then report back to the builder and see what he says. I assume it is still under warranty.

[Gray Ghost]

Yikes...the loud banging isn't a good sign. Sounds like the bottom end isn't happy. The tapping could be pushrods...had that happen once myself. Most rebuilders re-use valvetrain components and I hate that they do that. Mine had the original pushrods re-used and they were coming apart at the top. I had to replace all of them and several rockers.

The leaks aren't normal at all for a new motor. The tapping could also be an adjustment, so I'd take it to someone to check it. But the loud banging usually means connecting rods or pistons.

You could drop the pan to see the rod journals for wear...shouldn't be any this soon, but if there is a big problem down below it might show up.

As far as the oil usage and smoke...that usually means rings...one of them might not have seated correctly.

Hope it's all easy fixes and that the motor builder stands behind his work.

[WorkinLonghorn]

Also check for water in the oil,or oil in the water.

[custom72c20]

The loud noises don't sound good. Do you have a solid flat tappet or hydraulic? Kinda sounds like a lifter could be hanging up. Does it smoke really bad when you first start it up? Do you know if the shop did anything with the valve guides? The more info on the motor the better. Thanks

[Security guy]

Was the cam broke in properly? Could it be a worn lobe on the cam? Its hard to tell without being there to listen to it, but take everyone else's suggestion and take it to a good mechanic and have them diagnose it.

[truckdude239]

first off was the cam break in period done? i also havebeen told the first 3k miles of the life of a new engine there should be no constat high speeds ie anything over 40 mph iif you do the ring will never seat propley. sounds to me that the cam is gone and or the proper break in period wasn;t done and the motor is just trash because the rings did not seat right ihope you figure it out reall easy

[Elephanthead]

5K for a 350 rebuild? That seems excessive. If he is not offering you a brand new engine, you need a lawyer, you picked a bad shop. I hope he has insurance.

[gavotter333]

It doesn't smoke at all this is the weird thing. Only time that it does is if you are already moving and floor it. You get crap out of the exhaust. whether this is unburnt fuel or oil I can not say. However if you flog any engine this way it will produce something. As for the valves and heads. The valves are all stainless. and the heads are ported polished and every single component of the block is brand new. The mechanic that I took it to even commented on how amazing it went after we adjusted the timing and the only real comment he made was that the carb is not really big enough for this kind of performance motor. I agree that its something to do with either lifters or tappets. and that the oil must be going as the rings have not seated properly, however there is no burnt oil smell or oil smoke at all. Until this banging started and missfiring for the 100 miles that it did go it was really really amazing and sounded like what I paid for. I am not a mechanic and I have spent more than i would like to mention on this beast in the last few months so I am not in a position to ship it back. The builder has been really great however is it time to call it quits.

Is this a sure fire that its toast.

Problem is that I am in New York and the builder is in Bakersfield. So its not like I can just pop in for him to have a look.

[truckdude239]

i agree that 5k seems excessuve but hey if you add alot of aftermarket parts it adds up quick. only way to find out what has happened is to tear the motor down .

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Elephanthead

5K for a 350 rebuild? That seems excessive. If he is not offering you a brand new engine, you need a lawyer, you picked a bad shop. I hope he has insurance.

It is a totally brand new engine. I sat and looked at my old one and saw that 3 cylinders had died. 5k paid for very high quality and top notch components. Cam/ pistons/ serious heads with lots and lots of polishing etc. I have not put it on a dyno but its the stuff that you really wish you had. 400+ HP stuff. Trust me I have driven it its no crate engine from Mexico. The place that built the engine was inhabited with machinists in white lab coats.

However. It is not doing what its meant to do. This is why I am really worried.

[Andy4639]

If the shop that built it has stayed in touch with you then I would expect them to pay for it. Sounds to me you need to take it out and have it looked at. You say you built it over Christmas and then drove to NY. That's not a good way to break a engine in. To many RPM's up front want help seat everything properly. The engine needs to go through cycles of warm up and cooling off.

[69halfton]

i had a brand new 383 stroker built, nd right from day one the valvetrain had been making tapping noises. went back to the builder, and like you, he suggested a heavier motor oil. i started running 20W-50 and the tapping noises seemed to go away for another 2000 miles. well the tapping came back a little, and seemed to get worse as the motor warmed up ( the oil is getting thinner) well one day is started BANGING. like serious vavledrain problems. i had a whole batch of bad lifters (hydralic) and they were just plain wearing out. i only chaged the two that were seriously bad, as all the others seemed fine, the motor ran good for about 3-4 days, now the noise is starting to creep back up again.

take the valve covers off, and if you have hydraulic lifters, just push down agaisnt the lifters. if you do this within about a half hour of running the engine (the lifters havent bled down yet) they should be extremly firm, and you shouldn't get much movement out of them. also check for consistency, make sure you get the same amount of movement out of all of them..

if they need replacing, I'd replace them with some good ol' GM performance hydralic lifters...

..sorry for the long post.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by truckdude239

first off was the cam break in period done? i also havebeen told the first 3k miles of the life of a new engine there should be no constat high speeds ie anything over 40 mph iif you do the ring will never seat propley. sounds to me that the cam is gone and or the proper break in period wasn;t done and the motor is just trash because the rings did not seat right ihope you figure it out reall easy

Now these are the things that I also believed when running in an engine. So I was really cautious. It was built and run on a dyno before it was put in the truck. I was told that It was put under load and tested when it was assembled. This guy has been doing this for 30 years. I really do trust that its not a bodge shop. I mentioned this to him and he assured me that it was a very strong motor and that it would be very much ok up to 6500rpm somewhere that i would not be taking it with normal driving. I have only done what I was advised was ok to do. Of course using my own brain and being cautious.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

If the shop that built it has stayed in touch with you then I would expect them to pay for it. Sounds to me you need to take it out and have it looked at. You say you built it over Christmas and then drove to NY. That's not a good way to break a engine in. To many RPM's up front want help seat everything properly. The engine needs to go through cycles of warm up and cooling off.

I dont think the builder is going to try and dodge bullets. I have his cell phone number. Can call him any time day or night. Just wanted to see what others thought. I had no choice but to keep driving to NYC and was already late to start work by 10 days.

[Andy4639]

Sounds to me you need to talk to him and have a shop look at it and if it's parts failure see if he would help pay on it. That's about all you can do. If he say's yes good if he say's no well then it's yours! I hope he say's YES!

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

If the shop that built it has stayed in touch with you then I would expect them to pay for it. Sounds to me you need to take it out and have it looked at. You say you built it over Christmas and then drove to NY. That's not a good way to break a engine in. To many RPM's up front want help seat everything properly. The engine needs to go through cycles of warm up and cooling off.

Yeap I agree, only way to get to the bottom of this is start tearing the motor back down until, the problem is found. I had a motor I built myself, It was using oil but didn't smoke. When I finally tore it down, I found I had a broken ring on #5 cylinder. That doesn't cause lifters to start tapping and loud banging noises.
I mean if you already have that much into it, you need to find out whats wrong. But if you decide to wash your hands of it. contact me, I'll come get it.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

Sounds to me you need to talk to him and have a shop look at it and if it's parts failure see if he would help pay on it. That's about all you can do. If he say's yes good if he say's no well then it's yours! I hope he say's YES!

Yup, I agree. I have someone that I can take it to but I am not so sure it should be driven at all. I am going to take off the rocker cover and look to see if my untrained eye can see anything. Its also what he suggested however I am not a mechanic and dont claim to be. So I think its become time for someone else to take over here. I am just pissed that its not even 3 weeks old.

The circumstances were not ideal I know however. There was really nothing that I could do. The previous engine was totally fine. and it blew up completely out of the blue on the freeway. This is pretty amazing considering that this truck spent most of its time round a bunch of amazing mechanics in SF. No one saw that coming at all.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by BarryB

Yeap I agree, only way to get to the bottom of this is start tearing the motor back down until, the problem is found. I had a motor I built myself, It was using oil but didn't smoke. When I finally tore it down, I found I had a broken ring on #5 cylinder. That doesn't cause lifters to start tapping and loud banging noises.
I mean if you already have that much into it, you need to find out whats wrong. But if you decide to wash your hands of it. contact me, I'll come get it.

Thanks for the offer but think ill be keeping both the truck and motor. LOL But agree that I might have to ship it back to Bakersfield.

How very boring indeed.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by 69halfton

i had a brand new 383 stroker built, nd right from day one the valvetrain had been making tapping noises. went back to the builder, and like you, he suggested a heavier motor oil. i started running 20W-50 and the tapping noises seemed to go away for another 2000 miles. well the tapping came back a little, and seemed to get worse as the motor warmed up ( the oil is getting thinner) well one day is started BANGING. like serious vavledrain problems. i had a whole batch of bad lifters (hydralic) and they were just plain wearing out. i only chaged the two that were seriously bad, as all the others seemed fine, the motor ran good for about 3-4 days, now the noise is starting to creep back up again.

take the valve covers off, and if you have hydraulic lifters, just push down agaisnt the lifters. if you do this within about a half hour of running the engine (the lifters havent bled down yet) they should be extremly firm, and you shouldn't get much movement out of them. also check for consistency, make sure you get the same amount of movement out of all of them..

if they need replacing, I'd replace them with some good ol' GM performance hydralic lifters...

..sorry for the long post.

Dont be sorry . All is good.

I am going to do what you have suggested. I am not completely inept when it comes to motors. Just not as confident as I was when I was younger and this seems a little over my skill level. Ill let you know what I find.

[gavotter333]

Here is a picture of under the rocker cover. The 3rd valve along from the front of the engine is , well dead and not moving . It has about an 8th of an inch play and the lifter is sort of spoongy when you push on it. All the rocker arms are the same height and the bolts are all tight, including the 3rd.

I spoke to The engine builder, He thinks it might be caused by the 30 weight Non Detergent Oil that we put back into it to run it in again. Has formed sludge that is inhibiting the lifter and hence rocker. I am waiting to hear back from him.

Any thoughts.

I turned the engine over and all the other rockers are fine and all seem to have the same amount of play when not active and are dead tight when active. This one however is not. Think we can safely assume this is the horrible noise.

[long69]

nothing new to contribute other than don't freak over your break period or lack there of. everyone has there own idea as to how to break in an engine. as far as the loud banging and not wanting to drive it, drain the oil and checks for chips,(try and have the drain plug as low as possible put your pinky in and feel). if you find any then its time to bend over. if your oil is clean i wouldn't be afraid to drive it real short distances.

[Gray Ghost]

First off....$5k is not excessive if you get a pro builder on the case. Second, I feel he will stand behind it...sounds like a stand up guy so far.

DAS will ship your truck back to Cali for somewhere between $650-850...I know that's not the most desirable option, but your builder is going to want to get into that motor himself, he won't warrant work done by anyone else.

Anything can happen, even to brand new motors with brand new parts. IF you are really in the care of a good builder he might even compensate you for the shipping costs. Sounds like you have an open line of communication, so I doubt you'll have much trouble with getting it right.

[chevybuldr]

sounds like the cam went bad to me. Can you have some body bump the motor over while you watch the rocker arm move. With all the problems with motor oils these days its just not uncommon thing to see.

[BarryB]

From your last post, sounds like to me, The cam has a wiped lope or a faulty lifter. If the cam is wiped there will be metal shavings in the pan. so pull the pan to get all that out. I would check the bearings also, especially since it ran for as long as it did.