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03-13-2003, 03:59 AM
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#1 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Rubber City
Posts: 5,498
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Transfer case differences & knobs
Hello, my 1969 GMC has a Rockwell T-221 transfer married to an SM465, and the shifter is on the left side of the transmission shifter, makes a nice leg rest
 . But, I have heard that the more common NP205 shifter is on the right side of the transmission shifter. Do these transfer cases have the same shift pattern?I think mine is: 2 Hi (dash) | 4 Hi | Neutral | | 4 Lo (seat) This is what is pictured in the owner's manual, but I have heard that both the 205 and the 221 were used in 69's. Is this the correct shift pattern? I am 100% sure that I have the Rockwell, I had to rebuild the front driveshaft and I took a peek at it. Also, are replacement knobs available with the shift pattern on them? Mine is plain, with a slight bead or grip surface, going around the outer circumference. Thanks, sorry for the long post.
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1969 GMC K2500  1996 Honda Accord 2007 Kawasaki KLR 650 |
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03-13-2003, 08:51 AM
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#2 |
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user # 2756
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 4,612
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I have a 205 in my 70 w/ the following:
4low (dash) neutral 2high 4high(seat) My shifter is also on the left of the tranny shifter.
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1970 K25, 8' stepside bed 350/465/205 44 up front, 60 in the rear 4.10s rolling on 33" Dunlop MTs 1986 K5, 350/465/208 Dana 60/14 bolt from a cucv 36" Super Swampers TSL/SX 1983 K20 w/ CUCV axles, 350/700R4/208 sitting on 37" Goodyears 1986 M1031 6.2 diesel, TH400/NP205 locker in the rear and a LS in the front, all stock for now..... 1986 K30, 350/400/205 dana 60 and 14 bolt. I kept the drivetrain. Body/bad and chassis are gone. 1981 K30, 350/465/205 dana 60 and dually 14 bolt. Has a G80, and a flat bed. Going to replace the flat bed. 1985 K20, 350/400/208 10 bolt and SF 14 bolt. I wonder where I can find some 1 tons. Hmmmmm 
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03-13-2003, 09:22 AM
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#3 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Old Mission, MI, USA
Posts: 2,507
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Quote:
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Tim |
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03-13-2003, 10:32 AM
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#4 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 229
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I just checked my 205 shifter and its slightly to the right of the tranny shifter.
Bill 1978 Scottsdale, 1/2 ton 4x4, shortbed |
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03-13-2003, 12:03 PM
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#5 |
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user # 2756
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 4,612
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Look at the pics in my signature, The knob hits the back of my right leg.
And I'm positive it's an NP205 (pics in sig also).
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1970 K25, 8' stepside bed 350/465/205 44 up front, 60 in the rear 4.10s rolling on 33" Dunlop MTs 1986 K5, 350/465/208 Dana 60/14 bolt from a cucv 36" Super Swampers TSL/SX 1983 K20 w/ CUCV axles, 350/700R4/208 sitting on 37" Goodyears 1986 M1031 6.2 diesel, TH400/NP205 locker in the rear and a LS in the front, all stock for now..... 1986 K30, 350/400/205 dana 60 and 14 bolt. I kept the drivetrain. Body/bad and chassis are gone. 1981 K30, 350/465/205 dana 60 and dually 14 bolt. Has a G80, and a flat bed. Going to replace the flat bed. 1985 K20, 350/400/208 10 bolt and SF 14 bolt. I wonder where I can find some 1 tons. Hmmmmm
Last edited by JIMs70GMC; 03-13-2003 at 12:11 PM. |
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03-13-2003, 12:31 PM
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#6 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 229
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NP 205 and NP 203 were not introduced until 1971
I'm just quoting stuff I've read about the transfer case. Pre-1971 were not NP 205's but are referred to as DANA 20 style transfer cases. NP 205's do have a slightly off center to the right shifter.
Bill 1978 Chevy Scottsdale, short bed, 4x4 |
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03-13-2003, 01:11 PM
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#7 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: St. Johns, Arizona
Posts: 2,660
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Re: Transfer case differences & knobs
Quote:
No, the shift pattern is different between the Rockwell/Timken 221 and the NP 205. The NP 205 shift pattern is: <dash> 4 -lo N 2-hi 4hi <seat> You are correct on the 221 shift pattern. (I have both). Yes, the 221 shifter is on the left, and the 205 shifter is on the right. I have not seen 221 knobs with the shift pattern on them. They put the shift pattern on the sticker that is either on your roof, or on your glove box, therefore not needing a shift pattern on the knob. Originally, the 221s had the exact knob you have now (I suspect that your knob is the one that they put on in the factory). 205s had a shift pattern engraved into them, and are very hard to find in good shape. Also, I have heard people argue that the 205 was introduced in '69. I don't know for sure. My '69 came with a Rockwell, and the dealer's info book lists "Timken 221" transfer case.
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my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans? Last edited by ckhd; 03-13-2003 at 01:14 PM. |
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03-13-2003, 09:03 PM
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#8 |
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user # 2756
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 4,612
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I believe the dana 20s were only offered in K5s with manual and I6 from 69-73. I do have a 205 w/ an SM465. The NP203 did not appear in GM trucks until 1973. I've read what you posted on advanced adapters web site I believe there was a discussion about that early last year.
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1970 K25, 8' stepside bed 350/465/205 44 up front, 60 in the rear 4.10s rolling on 33" Dunlop MTs 1986 K5, 350/465/208 Dana 60/14 bolt from a cucv 36" Super Swampers TSL/SX 1983 K20 w/ CUCV axles, 350/700R4/208 sitting on 37" Goodyears 1986 M1031 6.2 diesel, TH400/NP205 locker in the rear and a LS in the front, all stock for now..... 1986 K30, 350/400/205 dana 60 and 14 bolt. I kept the drivetrain. Body/bad and chassis are gone. 1981 K30, 350/465/205 dana 60 and dually 14 bolt. Has a G80, and a flat bed. Going to replace the flat bed. 1985 K20, 350/400/208 10 bolt and SF 14 bolt. I wonder where I can find some 1 tons. Hmmmmm
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03-13-2003, 09:11 PM
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#9 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 229
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I believe you. Its not a big deal. Just passing along information.
Bill 1978 Chevy Shortbed 4x4 Scottsdale. |
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03-13-2003, 09:20 PM
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#10 |
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user # 2756
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 4,612
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I'm sorry. I don't know why my shifter is the way it is. It does hit me in the back of the leg. This is kinda like the dana 60 drums, some the drum slips off other have them and they have to remove the axles to work the brakes. I've found their are alot of exceptions to the rules with these trucks.
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1970 K25, 8' stepside bed 350/465/205 44 up front, 60 in the rear 4.10s rolling on 33" Dunlop MTs 1986 K5, 350/465/208 Dana 60/14 bolt from a cucv 36" Super Swampers TSL/SX 1983 K20 w/ CUCV axles, 350/700R4/208 sitting on 37" Goodyears 1986 M1031 6.2 diesel, TH400/NP205 locker in the rear and a LS in the front, all stock for now..... 1986 K30, 350/400/205 dana 60 and 14 bolt. I kept the drivetrain. Body/bad and chassis are gone. 1981 K30, 350/465/205 dana 60 and dually 14 bolt. Has a G80, and a flat bed. Going to replace the flat bed. 1985 K20, 350/400/208 10 bolt and SF 14 bolt. I wonder where I can find some 1 tons. Hmmmmm
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03-13-2003, 09:26 PM
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#11 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 229
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I hear ya. Its like the muffler shop not wanting to touch my '78 with a ten foot pole because I removed the cat/converter. When I try to tell him it came from the factory with no cat he wouldn't believe me. I know for a fact that federal 1/2 tons rated at 6200 lbs were not required to have cats. Mine has factory duel exhaust, divorced choke carb, no air injection, no EGR...Nothing except a PVC valve and its all factory.
Bill |
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03-13-2003, 09:38 PM
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#12 |
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user # 2756
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 4,612
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That's the way I like mine. 3 vacuum hoses- power brakes, PCV, and dizzy advance.
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1970 K25, 8' stepside bed 350/465/205 44 up front, 60 in the rear 4.10s rolling on 33" Dunlop MTs 1986 K5, 350/465/208 Dana 60/14 bolt from a cucv 36" Super Swampers TSL/SX 1983 K20 w/ CUCV axles, 350/700R4/208 sitting on 37" Goodyears 1986 M1031 6.2 diesel, TH400/NP205 locker in the rear and a LS in the front, all stock for now..... 1986 K30, 350/400/205 dana 60 and 14 bolt. I kept the drivetrain. Body/bad and chassis are gone. 1981 K30, 350/465/205 dana 60 and dually 14 bolt. Has a G80, and a flat bed. Going to replace the flat bed. 1985 K20, 350/400/208 10 bolt and SF 14 bolt. I wonder where I can find some 1 tons. Hmmmmm
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03-13-2003, 10:41 PM
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#13 |
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Recovering 67-72 Addict
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Bend, WA
Posts: 1,788
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Just to support JIMs70GMC a little bit, I have a '70 with a 205 and it has the same shifter. Also, I know for a fact that NP205's started to show up in 69 trucks.
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68 Short Fleet 4x4; 427; BTO Level 3 700R4; NP205; Dana 60 front and rear; 4" lift with 35's; Disc brakes; AGR variable ratio steering; factory bucket seats; factory tach and tilt. "Friends call me cruzer cuz I like fast cars and fast women" |
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03-14-2003, 08:40 AM
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#14 |
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user # 2756
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 4,612
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Come to think about it who has the "red rocket"? I believe it was a 71 K20. I PM'd him asking him how he got his shifter to the right of the tranny shifter and never heard back from him. I wonder if the levers will interchange?
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1970 K25, 8' stepside bed 350/465/205 44 up front, 60 in the rear 4.10s rolling on 33" Dunlop MTs 1986 K5, 350/465/208 Dana 60/14 bolt from a cucv 36" Super Swampers TSL/SX 1983 K20 w/ CUCV axles, 350/700R4/208 sitting on 37" Goodyears 1986 M1031 6.2 diesel, TH400/NP205 locker in the rear and a LS in the front, all stock for now..... 1986 K30, 350/400/205 dana 60 and 14 bolt. I kept the drivetrain. Body/bad and chassis are gone. 1981 K30, 350/465/205 dana 60 and dually 14 bolt. Has a G80, and a flat bed. Going to replace the flat bed. 1985 K20, 350/400/208 10 bolt and SF 14 bolt. I wonder where I can find some 1 tons. Hmmmmm
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03-14-2003, 08:49 AM
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#15 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Old Mission, MI, USA
Posts: 2,507
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The shifter on every GM 205 I have ever seen pivots on a shoulder bolt that bolts to the right side of the tranny to t-case adapter. That puts it directly in line halfway in between the two shift rails on the t-case. The shift lever does not have any real bends from side to side, so it sticks up just to the right of the tranny shifter, which is centered. I have never seen one like you guys are talking about. I am curious to see how they get the shifter on the left, and still operate the shift rails which are on the right. They must have been trying to make it easier to shift.
On edit, I looked at your pictures Jim, and it looks from the top like the shift lever just bends up over top of the adapter, and then up through the floor. I would bet that the later style shift lever would bolt right on, but I would have to see what yours looks like under the truck to tell. You would have to move the hole in the hump, or use a hump from a newer truck. My tranny and t-case are from a '72 Blazer.
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Tim Last edited by Blazer1970; 03-14-2003 at 08:54 AM. |
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03-15-2003, 01:53 AM
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#16 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WIS
Posts: 1,752
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shifter
I havew a divine 69 with a rockwell xfer case & m465. The xfer shifter is to the left of the tranny shifter. I also have a 70 with an np205 & m465. On that one the xfer shifter is to the right of the tranny shifter. I've been around a LONG time & every truck I've ever seen with these 2 combinations were the same as mine. That doesn't mean somebody couldn't modify one just to make it different. ......Zoomy
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03-17-2003, 02:33 PM
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#17 |
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Recovering 67-72 Addict
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Bend, WA
Posts: 1,788
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Here is a pic of a 205 with the shifter coming out to the left of the 4spd shifter.
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68 Short Fleet 4x4; 427; BTO Level 3 700R4; NP205; Dana 60 front and rear; 4" lift with 35's; Disc brakes; AGR variable ratio steering; factory bucket seats; factory tach and tilt. "Friends call me cruzer cuz I like fast cars and fast women" |
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03-17-2003, 05:58 PM
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#18 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: St. Johns, Arizona
Posts: 2,660
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Hmm.. that is one funky shifter. The ones w/ the 205 that we're talking about has basically the same setup, except a short shifter that doesn't hook over to the left like that. What is that out of?
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my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans? |
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03-17-2003, 06:25 PM
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#19 |
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user # 2756
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 4,612
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That's what mine looks like. Speed'o cable on the left. CV joint for the front shaft. Shift pattern on the glove box door is that of a NP205. I don't have headers though.
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1970 K25, 8' stepside bed 350/465/205 44 up front, 60 in the rear 4.10s rolling on 33" Dunlop MTs 1986 K5, 350/465/208 Dana 60/14 bolt from a cucv 36" Super Swampers TSL/SX 1983 K20 w/ CUCV axles, 350/700R4/208 sitting on 37" Goodyears 1986 M1031 6.2 diesel, TH400/NP205 locker in the rear and a LS in the front, all stock for now..... 1986 K30, 350/400/205 dana 60 and 14 bolt. I kept the drivetrain. Body/bad and chassis are gone. 1981 K30, 350/465/205 dana 60 and dually 14 bolt. Has a G80, and a flat bed. Going to replace the flat bed. 1985 K20, 350/400/208 10 bolt and SF 14 bolt. I wonder where I can find some 1 tons. Hmmmmm
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03-17-2003, 06:59 PM
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#20 |
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Recovering 67-72 Addict
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Bend, WA
Posts: 1,788
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That shifter in the pic is in a 70 GMC and is the same as the one in my brother's 69 Chevy.
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68 Short Fleet 4x4; 427; BTO Level 3 700R4; NP205; Dana 60 front and rear; 4" lift with 35's; Disc brakes; AGR variable ratio steering; factory bucket seats; factory tach and tilt. "Friends call me cruzer cuz I like fast cars and fast women" |
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03-18-2003, 10:56 AM
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#21 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: St. Johns, Arizona
Posts: 2,660
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Is it hard to shift the t-case? It almost seems that with that long of a bendy shifter that there might be times that you have to swear once or twice to get it in.
With the Rockwell t-cases, you have to swear once in a while to get it back into 2-hi if there is wear in the linkage.
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my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans? |
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03-18-2003, 11:03 AM
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#22 |
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user # 2756
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 4,612
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Mine is fairly easy to shift. As I remember it's easier than the NP208 I had in an 85 K5.
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1970 K25, 8' stepside bed 350/465/205 44 up front, 60 in the rear 4.10s rolling on 33" Dunlop MTs 1986 K5, 350/465/208 Dana 60/14 bolt from a cucv 36" Super Swampers TSL/SX 1983 K20 w/ CUCV axles, 350/700R4/208 sitting on 37" Goodyears 1986 M1031 6.2 diesel, TH400/NP205 locker in the rear and a LS in the front, all stock for now..... 1986 K30, 350/400/205 dana 60 and 14 bolt. I kept the drivetrain. Body/bad and chassis are gone. 1981 K30, 350/465/205 dana 60 and dually 14 bolt. Has a G80, and a flat bed. Going to replace the flat bed. 1985 K20, 350/400/208 10 bolt and SF 14 bolt. I wonder where I can find some 1 tons. Hmmmmm
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06-07-2003, 06:27 PM
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#23 |
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Born To Lose Club
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta/Oxenden, Ontario, Great White North
Posts: 13,307
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ahhh!!!! that must be what I have (NP208) cause it's a ***** to shift!!! The original transfer was tossed (damn PO) in favor of a "tougher" (in his opinion) transfer case...ya maybe tougher to shift
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Brian Smith  - "Born To Lose"1969 Chevrolet K10 LWB Fleetside - Proud Owner For 22 Yrs - 1 of 208 Built & Sold In Canada!- 283 V8/350TH/NP208, 2" All Spring Lift, 32" Good Year MT/R's. 1972 GMC K2500 Custom LWB Fleetside - Proud Owner For 3 Yrs - 1 of 571 Built & Sold In Canada! - 350 V8/SM465/NP205, 4” Rough Country Lift, 33” Interco TSL Thornbirds 2007.5 GMC Sierra SLE 2500HD 4x4 - Proud Owner For 17 Yrs- 6.6L V8 Duramax Diesel/Allison 1000, 2" Lift, 33" Mickey Thompson MTZ's. 2008 Yamaha Raptor 700r - Proud Owner For 15 Yrs - ITP Mud Lites. 2015 John Deere 1025R - Proud Owner For 8 Yrs - 24HP Diesel/H120/54D/260B/SB1154. |
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06-18-2003, 11:04 AM
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#24 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Maquoketa, Ia/ Orr, Mn
Posts: 3,051
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Not to barge in on 1969 GMC's post but since you guys are talking about transfer cases I thought I'd ask. Would a rockwell case be worth getting even if it has a broken gear inside?
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'51 South Bend Model "9A" '56 Chevy 3600 NAPCO '74 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20-restored on 37's '72 GMC Sierra Custom K2500- in progress '08 GMC Envoy Denali '12 GMC Sierra 2500HD Denali '17 GMC Yukon XL VCCA member #58596 http://www.nohrco.com |
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06-25-2003, 12:02 AM
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#25 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Rocky Mount, MO
Posts: 1,293
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Red Rocket:
NP 205 with power take off. Shifter to the right (passanger side) of 4 spd. |
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