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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wheatfield IN, USA
Posts: 1,113
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Bought the truck over a year ago and was told it was a 468 (bored 454) the current owner didnt know much more that that.
Found out by pulling the vavle covers early on that it has a set of Mid-Lift Roller Rockers along with a roller cam and lifter....... was pretty excited about that. Obviously could pull the pan without pulling the motor and everything was in to good of shape to do that................unitl now ![]() Well below are some pics of what I found today. ![]() MY QUESTIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS: 1. Is this a 454 or is it a 496 (probably dreaming or wishful thinking but follow me on this) 2.. I know they are H beam rods but I cannot find any part numbers to determine the length, from the center pin to the center of the cap they measure around 6 3/8'' (kind of hard to get an exact measurement) Why isn't there a part number? Is there a correct way to measure the length while in the block?? 3. Crank?? Obviously an aftermarket but again can find no part numbers. Is it a 4'' stroke or a 4.25 stoke? How in the world can I tell without pulling the heads? Look how close the crankshaft is to the block? Can I tell if the crank is cast or forged by looking at the flywheel end? 4. The flywheel did not have a weight on it??? Should have for an externally balbnced 454. Maybe it is a forged crank that is internally balanced (probably wishful thinking again. Help me out here guys this is driving me crazy. Oh ya Bad news of today was the MSD distributor gear has 4 or 5 teeth that have worn to a knife like point ![]() MSD looks like it is corroded beyond belief, dont know how it even ran? What causes this? And the las tbit of bad news/good news is the oil pump pickup was broke of and bairly hanging on? I know this is long post but any help would be appriciated
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1972 K5 Build - plans - LS3-6L80e-One Tons..... 1971 CREWMAX Build.....at body shop for couple more years ![]() |
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#2 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: WAYNE, WV.
Posts: 675
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
be hard to tell the crank are sometimes mark on the end where the timing gear is and if you can see the bottom ring on the piston(oil ring ) and the wrist pin is in the oil ring part then i would say it is a 425 stroke they move the wrist up on the piston to aloud for the stroke
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hacienda Heights, California USA
Posts: 474
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
Could this be a marine engine?
From the dist, it seems like its been in water. More wishful thinking..... Maybe its a marine crate engine like a 502?
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'72 GMC custom camper 350/350 |
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#4 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Posts: 7,285
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
Definately, you need to R+R the distributor. Hi-perf parts venders sell bronze distributor replacement gears. The idea being it's cheaper to change out the bronze gear than the mating gears on the cam. The bronze will give under extreme torque.
If you get another MSD distributor the same model as the corroded one -- you might be able to salvage the small internal parts as spares. I prefer Mallory, myself, but that's a personal thing maybe. Nice lookin' mill, otherwise. Perhaps it was a marine engine -- in one of those flat-bottom speedboats that flip over at 200 -250 MPH. Yeah, that's it -- and the oil pickup sheared off when the hull slapped back down on the water hard. ![]()
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Every 25 years I like to rebuild that 292, whether it needs it or not. Last edited by '68OrangeSunshine; 03-15-2009 at 05:20 AM. |
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#5 |
motor exploder
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,346
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
You may be able to look at the parting lines on the crank throws, a wide parting line usually means a forged crank, a thin line is found on cast cranks.
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Adam 1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme/3.73's w/Detroit Truetrac 1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 327/TH350,10 bolt w/3.08's 1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/9" rear w/3.50's & Detroit Truetrac 2005 GMC 1500 ccsb 2wd, 6.0L/4L65e/3.73 G80 2006 GMC 2500HD ccsb 4x4, DMax LBZ/Allison 6spd/4.56's w/Detroit TrueTrac ![]() ![]() Use the SEARCH function on this forum - it is your friend!! |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wheatfield IN, USA
Posts: 1,113
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
I did run the block numbers and it definatley started out as a standard 454 so no 502 here. I agree that the dist. looks like it has been exposed to wated but the motor was built in 2003 (stamped on the pas. head) and from talking to the previous owner the timeline works out that it was put directly in the truck.
As far as the parting lines on the crank I am not for sure what that means? I figured someone might have built a 496 stoker and would recognize some of the parts? What causes the dist. gear to wea like that?? thanks
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1972 K5 Build - plans - LS3-6L80e-One Tons..... 1971 CREWMAX Build.....at body shop for couple more years ![]() |
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#7 |
Active Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,643
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
The roller camshaft gear and the gear on the Dist on not compatible with each other - very common on roller cam installations - you need to put a bronze gear onto the MSD and that will correct your problem, I would also run a tooth pattern check to make sure the gears are meshing correctly - the mesh can change depending upon the tolerances from the block, heads, intake if they have been milled down
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1968 SWB 454 + .040, 490HP x 540 FT pounds of Torque 10-1 Kb Forged pistons, recon rods w/ ARP wave loc bolts 781 heads Ported with 2.19/1.88 SSTvalves Lunati 60204 cam, Micro Trol lifters, Ported Edelbrock Performer Rpm manifold armor coated, Pertronix Triple Strike Ignition Holley 770 Street Avenger carb,Headers armor coated Built by Watson Ruppel Performance in Sarahsville Ohio. Hardshift Tranny Built Turbo 350,TSI 10" 3000 stall 12 Bolt Eaton Posi 4.10 Richmond Gears moser axles ![]() 18.5" x 31" Hoosier Pro Street Radials ![]() ET Classic 5 Wheels - polished Power Steering, Power Brakes,Disc Brakes,Tach & Gauge Dash, Tilt,Factory Air (gone) Custom Paint & Body Work Special thanks to my wife, my son and my money tree ![]() |
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#8 |
Green club
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Central CA
Posts: 1,059
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
You might have to pull a head and get a part number off of one of the pistons...just to be sure.
But definately aftermarket rods/crank you have there ![]()
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71 short/fleet ECE 4/6 drop, LQ4/700r4/3.42 gears 70 SS396 Chevelle 427/200-4R/3.73posi 61 Lincoln Continental, black on black Son you are going to drive me to drinkin if you don't stop drivin that hot rod lincoln |
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#9 |
I am a Referee of life.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Greensboro N.C.
Posts: 13,993
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
I'm not real familiar with big block internals but if it was a small block,I would say that the block has been clearanced.It looks like it's been relieved to provide room for the rods.Look right next to the pan rail at the notches.I don't recall seeing those on a big block but like I said I'm not very familiar with them.
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The 47-present Chevrolet and GMC Truck Message Board Network,it's owners,moderators,members,and associates of any type should not be held responsible for my opinion. You can't fix stupid,not even with duct tape. "My appearance is due to the fact that "GOD" does punish you for having too much fun!" Barrett-Jackson has perfected alchemy,they make rust into gold! "You can lead a horse to water but you can't saddle a duck" "Cleverly disguised as a 'Responsible Adult' "Sometimes your Knight in shining armor is just a retard in tinfoil" |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wheatfield IN, USA
Posts: 1,113
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
thanks Panel, that is the kind of knowledge I was hoping some people would share. I really dont want to pull the heads becasue frankly I dont want to have to adjust the vavles (shounds rediculous but I have always ran into trouble with vavle adjustment)
I can check the pan rail of a standard block later in the week when I get a chance to run down to the shop unless anyone else has a 454 block and can provide some insight thanks guys
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1972 K5 Build - plans - LS3-6L80e-One Tons..... 1971 CREWMAX Build.....at body shop for couple more years ![]() |
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#11 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Estherville, Iowa
Posts: 3,371
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
On the fist pic, what is that on the front of the crank where the lower timing gear goes ? Just does not look like a regular timing chain from this angle. Gear drive maybe ?
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1968 C10 307 3spd Long Fleet ------ http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=201103 1970 C10 305 Super T10 Long Fleet --- http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=202285 1971 C20 383 TH350 Dana Posi ----- http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=206894 2001 GMC Sierra 1500 C3 6.0 Last edited by Green Machine; 03-16-2009 at 10:09 AM. |
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#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wheatfield IN, USA
Posts: 1,113
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
I will pull the timing chain cover tonight or tomorrow night but it should just have a normal gear drive setup
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1972 K5 Build - plans - LS3-6L80e-One Tons..... 1971 CREWMAX Build.....at body shop for couple more years ![]() |
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#13 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lewisville, Nc
Posts: 10,234
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
suppose to use bronze gears for the dis with a roller cam
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David fuller Ase Certified Mechanic Click here to help support our board!! 1971 Chevy c-10 under going a 4.8l LSx swap Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=421305 2007 Honda Accord my daily 145kmiles 2002 Honda Accord 4 door With 330k(sisters car) 2005 toyota Avalon 228k( brothers car) 2002 Sububran 5.3 245k 2000 Tahoe 5.3l 378 General manager for Marco's Carwash & lube |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: St. Johns, Arizona
Posts: 2,660
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
It's hard to answer your questions from the pics.
To determine exactly what it is would require taking measurements (and removing the heads). However, from what I see in the pics, I do believe that it is an aftermarket forged crank. My reasons: doesn't have a casting line, and doesn't have the GM wide forged line, also, who would put a mains stud kit and those expensive H-connecting rods in without putting in a forged crank? Whoever built it spent some money on it, so who knows what it really is without measuring?
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my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans? |
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#15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wheatfield IN, USA
Posts: 1,113
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
Well did some more investigating last night and was able to find some numbers on the front of the crank. They are DG3-454D............ When I put these into Google search I come up with a 4340 Forged Crankshaft with a 4.5'' stroke
![]() RODS??? - They have numbers on the bottom of them but I cannaot get them to cross reference against anything. Each rod has a unique number. 8913S, 9023S, 8664S............ Any idea guys Looks like it could be a 500+ cu in motor, which would mean the 427 heads taht are curently on there are the reason it doesnt act like it...... Or it could be that nasty distributor ![]() ![]()
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1972 K5 Build - plans - LS3-6L80e-One Tons..... 1971 CREWMAX Build.....at body shop for couple more years ![]() |
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#16 |
Prostreet 72
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Goodrich, Michigan
Posts: 278
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
Hey there.
The inside of that engine is identical to mine. Eagle Rods with ARP cap bolts Steel Crank Diamond Stripper windage tray/screen ARP main stud kit You have a nice piece there. Don't be affraid of the valves. It is simple to deal with. I can teach you on line how to work with them. I ran mine in a drag boat for years before putting it in my Prostreet truck. If you have solid roller lifters, setting the lash is simple. Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to relash the valves every time you use the thing. I go thru mine maybe twice a season if that now that it is on the street. If the cam is a 730+ lift, you may have to do a bit more. My cam is a 680 lift with a 272/282 dur @ 50. I am also at 13.0 to 1 compression. I have no problems with it.My engine is now going on 10 years of service with the same solid roller cam. You will have some preventative maintence chores with it, but thats about it. Tell me about the rest of the engine. Heads, intake, carb, etc. I would like to help you out.
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Prostreet 72 "Green Monster" 1972 Fleetside Build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...1&goto=newpost http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=319041 |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wheatfield IN, USA
Posts: 1,113
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
Thanks ProStreet I can use all the help, Are you running the same crank? Only reason I am wondering is I would just like to know that it is a 4.5'' stroke before my head get to big
![]() I am not for sure what cam is in it, I still have not pulled the timing chain cover as my pulley is at the shop. I wonder if the cam will have numbers stamped into the end??? I know for sure it is a roller cam with roller lifters, not sure if it a solid roller or not. Not really for sure how to tell either to be truthfull. The top end has a set of 427 heads, I will write down the numbers next time I pull the valve covers, with MidLift roller rockers and a Edelbrock Victor Jr. ovavl port intake. I am planning on pulling the intake and timing chain cover this weekend for sure if not sooner. Sounds like if it really is a 4.5'' stroke I need some new heads that will FLOW !!!!!! The motor ran decent under the thought it was just a 468, but it did not run like a 500+ motor.......... Could have been that nasty dizzy?
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1972 K5 Build - plans - LS3-6L80e-One Tons..... 1971 CREWMAX Build.....at body shop for couple more years ![]() |
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#18 |
Prostreet 72
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Goodrich, Michigan
Posts: 278
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
If you send me an E-mail address, I'll send you a bore and stroke calculator. This will allow you to figure out what you have there.
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Prostreet 72 "Green Monster" 1972 Fleetside Build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...1&goto=newpost http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=319041 |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wheatfield IN, USA
Posts: 1,113
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
Talked to the guys at RPM yesterday and they say it is their crank sold under a different vendor since it did not have the RPM logo. GREAT Right???? WELL last night I just couldn't leave it alone that it still probably was to good to be true. So I attempeted to measure the stroke for myself without pulling the head. I did this by measuring how far the bottom of the piston shirt moved in the cylinder. I think this should give me the stroke CORRECT??? Well I came up with 4'' WTF ??? Looks like I just have a high dollar forged stock stroke cranks
![]() I am really bummed but shouldn't have expected more than that I guess? someone let me know if they think the way I measured was incorrect, maybe that will shine some light onto this day.
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1972 K5 Build - plans - LS3-6L80e-One Tons..... 1971 CREWMAX Build.....at body shop for couple more years ![]() |
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#20 |
Prostreet 72
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Goodrich, Michigan
Posts: 278
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Re: 454 Motor Mystry
Hey don't be to upset. Regardless of wether or not it comes up to be a 500+ci engine, you have a very nice piece there.
![]() If you really want to do a downtown job without removing the cyl. heads, you need to do a volumetric measurement of the cylinders. This will help you determine the displacement. If it were me, I would probably pull it down and go thru it. You have it out of the truck, and torn down this far, so why not make sure everything is good before you put it back in? For sure I would replace the oil pump with an HV55 high volume pump. Cheap insurance. I always replace the oil pump when the engine is out. We can talk more later....................
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Prostreet 72 "Green Monster" 1972 Fleetside Build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...1&goto=newpost http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=319041 |
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