2009's greatest motor mystery...

[Gray Ghost]

It's time to bring this one to the masses.

I bought this truck in 2006. The original 010 block 350 had 118,000 some odd miles on it when I got it and it ran fairly well. It did use some oil so I knew the time would come when I would have to replace or rebuild.

I made a very bad choice to rebuild the original motor, not knowing the trouble I was getting into. After the rebuild I knew I had chosen the wrong builder. Even though he came highly recommended by two of my mechanic buddies, I've had nothing but trouble starting with bad pushrods the very first week.

I asked for a one piece oil pan gasket and he ordered the wrong one apparently. When I took delivery he told me he had a very hard time with it. Soon it was leaking like a seive. I took it to another mechanic [another wrong choice] and he put on the normal FelPro set. Soon after [a few months later] it too was leaking.

Since I drive the truck daily I don't have a lot of time to work on it. So for months I just kept on feeding it 1-2 quarts per week and waiting for the day I could attack the problem with some professional help. That day came last month and I took it to my buddy's shop on a Saturday. He re-sealed the oil pan, the timing cover, the front and rear seals and even checked out the bottom end for undue wear. Told me it was fine and that all I needed to do was to replace my valve covers. The ones I had were too tall on the lip for the Performer EPS and they were leaking.

I dug out some new in the box Edelbrocks and went to town and got them all sealed up. Now my crossmember is dry as well as the motor itself...except for a very small area under the front of the intake. Problem is that I am still leaking 2 quarts per week. Since I drive 75 miles a day, my next thought was rings.

I changed out all my plugs and none were oil fouled...better not be after only 21k miles right? Since day one I have been watching the oil dipstick like an addict watches his stash and it looks like I am still going to be doing it for awhile. So where's the oil going?

The back of the block is dry so it's not the rear intake or dizzy. There's no oil in the rad so it's not a head gasket. Only one spot under the front of the intake is wet. Could that bleed out a quart every three days?

[68gmsee]

My guess is rings or valve guides or both. Two quarts every 300 to 400 miles may not be noticeable coming out the exhaust. Have someone that's familiar with the symptoms follow you to see if he notices something or have a shop analyze your exhaust.

Valves guide problems are more noticeable when you first start the engine.

[Husker]

Would'nt think so, If it was going past the rings that bad you should have it dripping from the tailpipe and your plugs would be oil fouled one would think.
Ron

[gator2511]

I just went through something similiar. Park the truck on a clean dry patch of concrete and run it in park to about 3000 rpms for a minute then let it idle and look under the hood and truck and see if you can spot the leak. My truck did not leak out of the oil pan at idle but did leak at higher rpms. Its easy to do and worth trying.

[haysonj]

If that much oil is leaking out a gasket it will be all over the underside of the truck and drip off when you park. It has to be going out the tailpipe. Like others said rings or valve guides. do a compression check and if you have low readings squirt oil in cylinder and recheck if compression comes up you have ring problems otherwise it probably is valve guides.

[monte0185]

Ive seen a pin hole in the front side of the intake pour oil out of it under highway loads. 2-3k rpms. Could very well be that. But it would alos be everywhere so rings could be an issue. Besides whats the big deal? Dont you know what CHEVROLET stands for? LOL Sorry had to say it. When i was growing up I always loved a chrome engine till I built my first engine with chrome everything. You can never get chrome to seal good and they always leak. Then my shop teacher in high school made a very valid point. Chrome dont get ya home. So needless to say i dont use chrome anything anymore. Not that it really matters in this case but i figured id add my .02 cents worth.

[special-K]

Sounds like the intake valley gasket.I`d have your buddy reseal the intake.That much oil past the rings will make smoke and you`d notice build-up on the rear.Not totally oiled up,but residue that makes spots and dirt sticks to it.

[neonlarry]

Just for compariion I have a Subaru that goes thru a quart a week, about a thouand miles. No obvious leaks, plugs look fine, good compression, no smoke screen out the tailpipe. I do use synthetic oil, but it just uses that much with no obvious signs, it has 260K+ miles.

[MrC1]

Just thought that I'd point out that folks that hace trouble with leaks generally get them to stop by using a silicone or gasket maker sealant INSTEAD of a gasket. Basically, you just glue the pieces together and they don't leak.

Sorry to hear about that Neonlarry. Not the leak.....the fact that you have a Subaru. lol

[Gray Ghost]

The bottom and sides of the motor are dry as a bone. It's not coming out of the pan. The front of the intake is not dry though and I noticed today a tiny bit of gunk where the oil sender goes in. Sure doesn't look like enough to be leaking that much though.

No oil fouled plugs and the only chrome on the motor is the new Edelbrock valve covers and they are sealed fine. The timing cover is stock.

I get a bit of smoke when I floor it at speed and sometimes a bit at startup when it's really cold.

[jeffspower]

I've seen countless oil burners that didn't smoke much. The worst was a Plygmuth minivan that I rebuilt the 2.5 4cylinder. Customer came back a few weeks later saying it used a quart every 75 miles. You would think that little motor would smoke & foul plugs bad with that much consumption- nope. No leaks anywhere. I asked to take it on a short weekend trip to verify & determine what was going on. It used a quart every 50 miles for me. The only time I noticed smoke was a haze in headlights behind me if I floored it. Rehoned and tried a different brand of rings... problem solved.

Been down this road too many times

[Gray Ghost]

I'll bet that is what's going on, too...sounds like the haze I saw behind me the other day. Pisses me off since I had it rebuilt 21k ago [last December].

I am not going to do anything about it just yet. With spring coming on I won't have time to have it down for any amount of time. Maybe I can limp along until I can get the LS swap done.

[spinning wheels]

Could it be that the rings never broke in right?

I drive a '03 Ford E250 with a 5.4 Titan engine, for work

It uses 0W-20 motor oil, I have been taking it to the local Ford stealearship again for routine maintenance.
This thing goes thru oil like crazy. Now and then, when I start it a big puff of white smoke comes out of the exhaust pipe. I'm thinking the oil is just too damn thin for these motors. Could that be the problem with your situation?

Well thats my uneducated .02 cents worth.

[bigsnookmaster]

Sounds like it could be bad machine work. I had a 283 years ago that did the same thing. I had it bored .030 and new everything, it still used the oil. I've learned and believe in using "Torque Plates' on the block for boring and honing. They simulate the torque of the head and then you bore the cylinder. This gives a true round cylinder after the head is torqued down,thus giving a better ring seal. Or it could be the intake or valve guides,or a combo of any of these things.My .02 Good Luck!

[pritch]

The best way to find out if it's burning oil is to find a long hill-a few miles long-and steep enough to maintain a decent speed with no throttle. Do this at night with someone behind you with their brights on. After a couple miles of engine breaking, floor it. If oil is getting past the rings or valves, you will be able to see a cloud of smoke behind you in the lights.

[Gray Ghost]

Well I guess it's not such a mystery anymore. The general concensus has been confirmed in that it is going out of the motor via the rings. Yesterday I had a guy follow me for a bit and he saw smoke when I floored it.

I couldn't be any more pissed about this since I paid to have it rebuilt last December [07] and installed it right after Christmas. Since I have been losing oil since day one, I guess this problem started right away.

Funny thing is both of my mehcanic friends have used this rebuilder for years and never had a problem. I guess it's a bad luck thing on my end. The warranty is long gone so I am without a recourse. I guess I'll be driving it till it tanks then it will have to remain parked until I can get the LS motor in.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I wish it had been something simple.

[68gmsee]

Don't despair yet... Since you only have 21K on the engine, rings may still seal properly on you. Like someone mentioned, if they used chrome moly? rings they will take much longer to seat.

After a rebuild some mechanics recommend gunning the engine periodically when you first start it and while driving. This introduces raw gas into the cylinder walls to expedite the breaking in.

Don't overlook the valve guides. They may still be contributing to the oil burning. I would do a compression test and maybe a leak down test of the cylinders. You can hear the air pressure escaping if done properly.

[Gray Ghost]

Are you serious? I have never heard of any motor taking over 20,000 miles for the rings to seat. I sure hope you are right, but I know my luck and that makes it next to impossible.

[ChevLoRay]

Custom Classic Truck magazine, or maybe Classic Trucks magazine had a series of articles about a truck that had an engine that used oil and had no obvious signs. They wrote of the things that they had done to try and solve the problem, all without any success. One of them involved their efforts at getting the rings to seat by introducting some cleanser (Bon-Ami, maybe) into the intake to be taken into the combustion chambers. I don't remember what they finally found (it's been several years) but it supposedly was one of those remedies that make you wonder why nobody had found it before or thought of it already.

I predict yours will end the same way.

I just don't know what that prognosis is.

[wesmigletz]

My uncle, who taught me much of what I know about working on cars, mentioned using Bon Ami to help rings seat on a "fresh" oil burner. He insisted that it had to be "Bon Ami" brand. I never tried it myself, but would give it a shot as a last rsort if I was looking at a tear down anyway...

Originally Posted by ChevLoRay

Custom Classic Truck magazine, or maybe Classic Trucks magazine had a series of articles about a truck that had an engine that used oil and had no obvious signs. They wrote of the things that they had done to try and solve the problem, all without any success. One of them involved their efforts at getting the rings to seat by introducting some cleanser (Bon-Ami, maybe) into the intake to be taken into the combustion chambers. I don't remember what they finally found (it's been several years) but it supposedly was one of those remedies that make you wonder why nobody had found it before or thought of it already.

I predict yours will end the same way.

I just don't know what that prognosis is.

[Gray Ghost]

Heard about that one last night at my buddy's house...he's one of the two mechanics I know. He and his dad told me about it then burst into laughter telling me I should have seen what that did to some guys block and pistons.

I'm not going to do a thing other than step up my parts aquisition for the LS swap in hopes of getting it done this summer.

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

Are you serious? I have never heard of any motor taking over 20,000 miles for the rings to seat. I sure hope you are right, but I know my luck and that makes it next to impossible.

I never have either but I have heard that chrome rings are extremely difficult to seat. Also, if the cylinders are slightly out of round, they may just never seal. Never know.

forgot to include: I'm assuming that chrome rings may have been used.

[Gray Ghost]

Well it turned out to be the heads. Two seats gone and several valve guides in bad shape. Swapped them out with w/ a new pair and I'm cruzin' again!!