pontiac engine install

[mud_grip]

hello all. i realize that this may not be a real popular idea, but i am planning on putting a 400 pontiac in my 1969 chevy. i currently have a sbc 350 with granny low 4-speed in right now. i am having tranny problems (a story for another thread), so i am replacing it with another identical tranny. i really like the torque pontiacs have, and my friend is going to basically give me one, so i am thinking of replacing the engine as well (too sweet of a deal to pass up!)

so here is my question: has anyone ever installed one of these in their trucks? unless i am missing something, everything seems to check out, except for the engine mounts. i have a 4-speed granny low tranny that i will be using, so the manual tranny pontiac belhousing should work, and i will be using my HEI setup, so i will change distributors as well. anyways, does anyone have any suggestion for the motor mounts?

[vectorit]

I'm no expert on this for sure... But, what little I know about tin indians is. That the bell housing is different from any other Chevy truck trans bell housing. So, are you planning on modifyin one to work with your manual truck trans?

[mud_grip]

i am planning on using a pontiac bellhousing from a manual pontiac car. from what i understand, that should just fit right up to my granny low 4-speed. i believe that is the case anyways...

[Longhorn Man]

my longhorn had a craptastic pontiac 350 in it when i got it in 02... it had a cracked head so i pulled it and no one wanted it and so i scrapped it.
The frame towers that the mounts bolt to were the flat style out of a 73 - 87 model. They ended up putting spacers under one of the mounts too. You'll need the HEI out of a pontiac engine, then you'll need a real long battery positive cable since the starter is on the wrong side. You can try to locate a drivers side tray, they are out there... aux battery tray, mostly on camper trucks. Expect to drop 100 bucks if you go that route, but it is a better route than a 6 foot long positive cable IMO.
I think you'll need to run the fuel line on the other frame rail, but I can't remember.
The Pontiac bellhousing is not the same as chevy, you might be able to use an adaptor... trans adapt is one company... however, i don't know if you'll be able to hook the clutch linkages to the pontiac engine. It may be easier just to locate a BOP TH350 or TH400. (assumung 2 wheel drive)

[mud_grip]

so am i understanding this correctly? the sm465 transmission WILL NOT mate up to the back of a pontiac manual tranny bellhousing?

btw, i have thought about going automatic, but the truck is already too manual! haha. there is no place for a cooler (manual radiator), i have the high hump, no auto shifter, etc. besides, i have a left foot for a reason!

is there any aftermarket motor mounts? just curious....

[mud_grip]

never mind, further research has concluded that a GM Muncie SM465 will indeed bolt up to any GM bellhousing (including pontiac)

"the Chevrolet and General Motors SM465 will marry directly to a GM style bellhousing. This includes Chevy car, Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac bellhousings" -- courtesy of novak-adapt.com

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm465.htm

[Pont406]

It will fit. Do you have a welder? After trying to find mounts I made my own and used 67-69 Firebirds mounts.

[prairewolf]

what year is the Pontiac motor?, what did it come out of?.... just curious.
I can appreciate what you are doing, .. some of those Pontiacs ran GOOD.

life is good,kent

[mud_grip]

pont406: that is exactly what i am looking to do! i am so glad to actually see someone else has done it. and i think that i will go the welding route, so thanks for the info about the mounts. is there anything i should be looking out for? clearance issues mainly. any advice ahead of time would be greatly appreciated!!!

btw, that engine bay looks REALLY familiar! my 69 chevy was that exact same color, but a little rougher shape haha. i would post pics, but cant seem to find them! oh, frustration.

prairewolf: the 400 is out of a 1971 catalina. it has some '69 high comp heads on it and this summit camshaft :http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-2802/. the rest of it is bone stock. im kind of hoping for 350 hp and 450 ft lbs. does that seem too ambitious?

[mud_grip]

oh, i forgot to mention that i have power steering, power brakes, and air conditioning and have no intention of loosing any of them. what did you do about the starter being on the other side pont406? longer cable or move the battery?

[The Big Green]

He has a longer battery cable, I see it.

[mud_grip]

well dad gum, i cant believe i didnt recognize that! its bright red, what else could i ask for!! thanks for pointing that out.

[The Big Green]

Sometimes the easiest thing is the last to notice. I was eyeballing those nice red full rollers, and the nice reworked heads, with brass freeze plugs. He did a good top end rebiuld. Always a great idea for head work.

[Pont406]

Don't worry about the battery cables. Just run 0 or 2 gauge cables. What casting numbers are the heads? I had high comp heads on it before and it ping when installed in a heavy truck. Unless you have some dished pistons don't go over 9:1 to comp. Try to get 6x-4 heads or 96 heads. P/S will fit also. Summit headers for a 70-81 Firebird will fit but I don't know about manual trans linkages.
Are you looking to make 350hp at the flywheel or wheels?. My makes 310 on first pull after it stays at 305hp and 342 torque at the wheels. Good luck.

[ChevLoRay]

I'd really like to have a Tri-Power 421 or 428 in my '69....

[long69]

any thing that can bolt to a chevy bellhousing should be able to bolt to a pontiac bellhousing, except of course the motors( there are exceptions). i would not worry about the weight of the truck it probably less than a catalina. i liked every poncho i ever drove and or had except a 326 lemans until it got a 389. i was told once they will run all day long at 5500 but not to go over that.

[Pont406]

With high comp and weight you'll be asking for a whiped out rod bearings. If you only drive around the block it will be fine. Unless you want to run some 100 octane don't do it.
Why not over 5500 rpm? Motor in my car bounces off a rev limitter at 6600 rpm and I shift at 6100. That's an old rumor.

[mud_grip]

thats good info to know about the high comp and weight. i was kind of worried about the high comp anyways (i want to stay pump gas for everyday driving), so i think i will tune it down then. as far as the power goes, i am talking at the flywheel. but i would be VERY happy if i could get the numbers you got with your truck! how do you feel about the torque in your truck with the engine? would you do anything different?

[turp mcspray]

My buddy is a Pontiac nut. His 69 GTO has 455 that made 600 plus horse on the dyno. His car has a 6 speed and every time he drives it it gets laid on the 7200 rpm chip in his MSD box. Don't try that with stock parts though. His cam is a solid roller with a duration of 275 at .050. Can you say LUMPY? LOL!

[Wrenchbender Ret]

I had a 400 pont. in a 64 Ford pickup years ago. It ran great. Most Chev. trans. will bolt up to the pont bell housing but the SM465 has a larger brg. retainer.

[mud_grip]

im happy to know it will bolt up, i was most concerned with that. i realize that the front bearing retainer is wider (5 1/8" i believe), so i should be able to get it resized to fit. its a lot easier to make the hole bigger than smaller!!

[Aunt-Jemima]

My uncle has a 69 goat with a 455 that makes around 600 now but soon to make around 700. He doesnt have a msd but its balanced up to 7800 i think but he doesnt pull it over 7200 but as far as torque pontiacs make great torque they are what a lot of people call "square motors' which means they pretty much make the same torque if not more than horses. You should be real happy with it. The only draw back i see is that parts are a little pricy and harder to find.

[prairewolf]

Originally Posted by mud_grip

pont406: that is exactly what i am looking to do! i am so glad to actually see someone else has done it. and i think that i will go the welding route, so thanks for the info about the mounts. is there anything i should be looking out for? clearance issues mainly. any advice ahead of time would be greatly appreciated!!!

btw, that engine bay looks REALLY familiar! my 69 chevy was that exact same color, but a little rougher shape haha. i would post pics, but cant seem to find them! oh, frustration.

prairewolf: the 400 is out of a 1971 catalina. it has some '69 high comp heads on it and this summit camshaft :http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-2802/. the rest of it is bone stock. im kind of hoping for 350 hp and 450 ft lbs. does that seem too ambitious?

growing up small town late 70's early 80's. we never thought of actual hp or torque numbers, ... we just figured that the guy that did the longest burnout had the best/right motor..... one friends 69 Bonneville would burn the right rear for almost an 1/8th mile...... archaic way to measure things but it worked....... the numbers don't lie, and neither do the black marks

life is good,kent

[mud_grip]

haha, hey i totally agree! burnouts are just about the only way to tell who has the best engine around here. use guys in oklahoma aint used to some thing called a "dyno". about the only dyno around here is my old truck! (i couldnt resist) i was just basing those numbers out of an old pontiac book my friend has...

[mud_grip]

pont406, i am very interested in the motor mounts you ended up using for your engine install. did you use stock chevy truck towers and the firebird mounts on the block? any more info would be greatly appreciated....