BBC Build and Questions.

[70stroker]

My 454 bbc locked up a main bearing, its sat for the last few months in the truck in the driveway and now i have decided to do something with it. Im looking for some advice as this will be my first bbc build.

MOTOR:
454 1975 pickup
177 weiand blower
750 edelbrock


TRANS
Th350 2200 stall

REAR 4:11 gears posi rear



Thats what i am starting with following this sentence i am gonna type what I think i might buy. I am looking for good or bad critism, ideas, suggestions. Now i am tryin to keep this built below 3,000 to 3,500

MOTOR
thinking about these heads:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BIG-B...item5635dbe79b

This bottom end:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/1-92250BE/10002/-1

That would put me at a 8.4 to 1 CR +/- a few so i should be good with the blower.

Need your help with the CAM, HEADERS,ROLLER ROCKERS,and anything else i might have forgetten.

Thanks for your help in advance.

A few pic of the truck. and one of the motor before the rod bearing.

[green724x4]

Sweet another blown big block!
I think 4:11 would be a little large, unless this is built primarly for the strip. For a cam 260-300 degrees of advertised duration
112-115 lobe centers. The less overlap the greater the boost pressure will build in the cylinders. If more overlap is used the cam will hold the exhaust valve too long while the intake charge is flowing in through the intake valve. This leads to the glowing hot header problem because the fuel air mix is not building pressure in the cylinders but running out the tail pipe. A lower boost pressure will occur. Also advancing the camshaft 2-4 degrees will shorten the intake charge time to enter the cylinder because the blower is speeding up the denser air fuel mix entering the cylinder. This will give the burnt fuel mixture more time to exit the cylinder.
Heads look good, I should get a set.
How much boost are you planning to run?
The cast crank should be fine for low your app unless you are running 10+lbs.
Consider getting a MSD BTM ignition box.
It allows you to adjust your timing retard up to 3 degrees per pound of boost. 15 max degrees.
This is what I am running in my 427 bbc
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-11-404-4/
I read up on your build thread, how much blower wine do you get. I seem to get relitively little. I am running the 174 low manifold weiand. I got lucky and made it fit under the stock hood. It is a tight. Right now I need a set of gears and a locker. I am also running 125cc cast iron oval ports. No stall and just a shift kit in the tranny. I have 2700 miles on the truck in 2 summers of driving. I got a couple of vids but the truck looks slow as hell because I found that the distributor had giant springs in keeping me from getting any timing until 4k.
enough of my .02
good luck

[chevybuldr]

STEP AWAY FROM THE HEADS!!!!!
Those heads SUCK!!!!
They are cheap but the amount of work just to get them to work if you even can what a joke. Serious there has been alot of talk on them and the problems that they have. They are just not worth it!!!

[ripdog28]

I would stay away from picking parts here and there. Talk to a local builder. Have whoever is building it for you tell you what to buy. DO NOT BUY PROCOMP HEADS. With a blower, you do not need big alum heads, you are not sucking in air like a normal motor, you are forcing air in so you dont need all tircked out stuff. I bet your heads you have now would be great with a little rebuild. Spend the extra money on a better bottom end.

[70stroker]

thanks for the replys.

few things...
I am not gonna take it to a local builder. I am fully capable of puttin my own motor together. I already have the blower, i am building the motor around it. What is wrong with that bottom end? The right CR forged pistons and rods? Just so i know.

Do you guys have any links to the reviews and discussions on these heads? I put the specs up against several different aluminum heads and the cc's and what not look about the same. What are some good heads? Ya i could rebuild my heads but thought i would try out some aluminum ones.

[ripdog28]

OK, didnt know you were doing it your self. Your correct on the Forged rods and slugs and proper rings. Green 72 has a good cam just gotta have your valve springs set up for it. Stay away from Alum roller rockers, get some chrome molly ones. Some Super Comp headers should work fine. ALSO, I have heard some bad horror stories about plastic, see thru fuel filters, plastic melts when it gets hot and yours is pretty close to the engine. Get an alum or someother type of filter, i would hate to see that truck burned up.

[70stroker]

So should that bottom end hold up ok in your opinion. I think i will go with my heads and have them re-worked. Thanks for the heads up on the filter i got one that is canister style that mounts on the frame. What do you think about this cam kit? that way i will have the correct springs for the cam.

Ya I built my 383 a few years ago that is now in my old mans corvette. I know how to plastigage and everything so i figured id do this one also.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K11-564-4/

Originally Posted by ripdog28

OK, didnt know you were doing it your self. Your correct on the Forged rods and slugs and proper rings. Green 72 has a good cam just gotta have your valve springs set up for it. Stay away from Alum roller rockers, get some chrome molly ones. Some Super Comp headers should work fine. ALSO, I have heard some bad horror stories about plastic, see thru fuel filters, plastic melts when it gets hot and yours is pretty close to the engine. Get an alum or someother type of filter, i would hate to see that truck burned up.

[ripdog28]

The rotating assy will be fine. I would call COMP if that is the cam you want and tell them your build and let them send you the cam, springs, lifters, rockers. I would do that with any cam company, Lunati, edel, ect.... speak with a tech and have them pick a package out for you. A little more assurance that way rather then pick and guess hoping it will work.

[Rodms]

Originally Posted by ripdog28

The rotating assy will be fine. I would call COMP if that is the cam you want and tell them your build and let them send you the cam, springs, lifters, rockers. I would do that with any cam company, Lunati, edel, ect.... speak with a tech and have them pick a package out for you. A little more assurance that way rather then pick and guess hoping it will work.

I would not call comp for anything,I know the people that run that place!!!!!

[Outlaw72]

70stroker,

I've been down this big block road once or twice here lately and to be honest.....this is my most valuable input. It doesn't look like you are trying to kill every bit of the competition so here is my input and exactly what I would do....

Keep your heads and have them reconditioned. Add springs to them that match whichever cam you go with. That takes care of the heads. I can suggest a decent aluminum head but with BBC, you get what you pay for. Those pro-comp heads are trot line weights. Cast in china and very unreliable. A good aluminum head is going to break your budget unfortunately but AFR, DART and BRODIX are good quality heads.

Depending on how much damage is done to your current bottom end, it might be safe to go ahead and purchase the Scat kit. If it were just a regular rebuild, I would even sway away from that. BBC short blocks are much stronger than some people give credit. Stud the mains, line bore the block and put a 7/16 rod bolt in the rods. It will take a ton of horsepower all day long. But not knowing the condition of your short block, hard to tell. I don't replace unless it's broken but that's just me. If your short block can be saved to save a little money, I would go that route.

Be sure to calculate machine work into your budget.....that machine work adds up.....Bore cylinders, hone cylinders, line bore, vat and cleanup, balance ect...ect....before you know it that budget will be gone! There's a reason for the issue so I would have a good machinist check that block out unless you feel comfortable doing it with your tools. Good luck...

[70stroker]

Thanks man I am for sure taking it to the machinist to line bore and check the block out. Also that kit comes with the flexplate and all and is pre balanced, that was another selling point to be because the local shop charges 175 to do that alone.

So with that scat bottom end and my heads, which i still need to find out the casting numbers, and a decent cam, the 177 blower what am i looking at power wise?

And not your right im not looking to kill everybody in town down the 1/4. I would however like to run a low 13s. With the stock bottom end that hasnt been opened up since 75 and a cam that was not for a blower and stock heads i ran a 14.2 so ya I guess what i am sayin is for the 3500 or so im looking to spend i would like to drop around a second off my 1/4..... that sound like a decent and achievable goal?

Originally Posted by Outlaw72

70stroker,

I've been down this big block road once or twice here lately and to be honest.....this is my most valuable input. It doesn't look like you are trying to kill every bit of the competition so here is my input and exactly what I would do....

Keep your heads and have them reconditioned. Add springs to them that match whichever cam you go with. That takes care of the heads. I can suggest a decent aluminum head but with BBC, you get what you pay for. Those pro-comp heads are trot line weights. Cast in china and very unreliable. A good aluminum head is going to break your budget unfortunately but AFR, DART and BRODIX are good quality heads.

Depending on how much damage is done to your current bottom end, it might be safe to go ahead and purchase the Scat kit. If it were just a regular rebuild, I would even sway away from that. BBC short blocks are much stronger than some people give credit. Stud the mains, line bore the block and put a 7/16 rod bolt in the rods. It will take a ton of horsepower all day long. But not knowing the condition of your short block, hard to tell. I don't replace unless it's broken but that's just me. If your short block can be saved to save a little money, I would go that route.

Be sure to calculate machine work into your budget.....that machine work adds up.....Bore cylinders, hone cylinders, line bore, vat and cleanup, balance ect...ect....before you know it that budget will be gone! There's a reason for the issue so I would have a good machinist check that block out unless you feel comfortable doing it with your tools. Good luck...

[Outlaw72]

Originally Posted by 70stroker

Thanks man I am for sure taking it to the machinist to line bore and check the block out. Also that kit comes with the flexplate and all and is pre balanced, that was another selling point to be because the local shop charges 175 to do that alone.

So with that scat bottom end and my heads, which i still need to find out the casting numbers, and a decent cam, the 177 blower what am i looking at power wise?

And not your right im not looking to kill everybody in town down the 1/4. I would however like to run a low 13s. With the stock bottom end that hasnt been opened up since 75 and a cam that was not for a blower and stock heads i ran a 14.2 so ya I guess what i am sayin is for the 3500 or so im looking to spend i would like to drop around a second off my 1/4..... that sound like a decent and achievable goal?

I would still be careful with those pre-balanced kits. Not taking anything away from Scat but here is a tip. Most of those budget kits are cast by the same manufacturer. I would make sure Scat is putting their own balance on it. For example....I have had several machine shops tell me of people who have brought them their Eagle rotating assemblies......I'm sure you have read about those. They advertise pre balancing, however, when machine shops check them, they end up having to re-balance them. It's just extra insurance for you. At least check with scat and make sure they are putting their OWN balance on it. I have never dealt with Scat so be extra careful there.

Your power is really going to come down to your head and cam selection. Need to know what heads are on that puppy. Pop a valve cover off and get the casting number...then look it up here...

www.mortec.com

I have a truck similar to yours.....LWB. With stock 781 ovals and a very mild comp solid flat tappet cam with 4:10, ran 7.9X in the 1/8th on a 1.6 60.ft.

[Outlaw72]

So yea....I think your goal is very reachable provided you get the cam, head and boost tuned properly.

[ProStreet71]

Get it balanced. DO NOT RELY ON ANY ROTATING ASSEMBLY TO BE PROPERLY BALANCED! They are just weight matched.

[bb1979]

Have a look at this......

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ine/index.html

I have been doing the same research myself as I am looking at supercharging my 454 at the moment only difference is that I'm considering running mine on propane (once I get my head around providing enough fuel to feed the hp level)

[Alex1]

Just do you know, I picked up a set of Dart 325cc aluminum heads with CNC 114cc heads (bare) for 1200.00 BRAN NEW on ebay.

[70stroker]

Heads are castings346236

[smoknbarrels]

What rpm are you planning on spinning this thing up to? IMO that blower is just an added accessory, I don't think its gonna do a lot for what you think you are gonna get out of it. but it all depends on what you are trying to achieve.. a 177 just doesn't have the cfm for a big block.
in saying that though, it will work so-so if you run normal rpm (not more then 5000) even then, that thing is not gonna last long, to generate a few lbs of boost (2-3), that thing will have to be be overdriven at least 200% which means it will be spinning in the ball park of 10,000 rpms. good-bye life expectancy! thats why guys run 8-71 blowers on most big blocks (I had an 8-71 for mine).
I think there would be less headache with just uping the compression, running naturally asperated, and you'd be really only be a few hp shy of that 177... I'm sure of it!
don't forget, it takes hp to turn a blower, eventhough that one is small. be prepared to buy at least 5 different pullies and spend much time messing around with it and baby sitting it so it doesn't blow up or keep sliping the belt because it's turning so fast.
sorry to sound negative but you wanted advice.. so I say sell that blower to someone with a 350 and buy a stroker crank.. this way you not only have more hp, but you will also be upgrading parts by strengthening your bottom end. and you'll still have money in your pocket to buy more tires...

[ripdog28]

Smoken, i have a small disagreement with your statememt on the 177 not working. I have seen front to back test of the 177 and 8-71 on the same BBC. The 177 was worth its money in the mid RPM range. they were with in 50-80 HP most of the curve and the only place the 8-71 really showed was in the 5k+ where it got up to 150HP more depending on pulley size. I do know the 177 was pushed to about 5 psi where it normally pushes 3. I can not find the article but will post it if i find it.

I agree with you saying that they take HP to turn. The place that the 8-71 failed was the lower end because it takes a lot more hp to turn it. They were doing a COST EFFECTIVE comparison. If looking for all out HP of course 8-71 but for the price diffrence, your paying $2k more for about 100-150 HP. The 177 and 8-71 were under around 50hp diffrence untill they bumped up the 8-71 psi and RPMs.

[70stroker]

Thanks guys. I have the blower and am gonna run it. I posted in the race forums because you guys know your stuff. However this will NOT be a race truck. It will be a truck driven 3 to 4 times a week and fun toy and 2 to 4 drags a year. So low to mid torque is what i am after, based on your statments that exactly whats it for, so im good to go.

anyhow are my heads any good, or worth messing with. Would a simple spring and oversize valve install, and a gasket match wake these heads up? or would i be wasting my time?

thanks

[ripdog28]

Like i said before, Spending money on after market alum and such is a waste with a blower unless going for crazy HP. Forced induction does not need a nice and pretty passage like normal suction. If your spending over $800 to get them new valves,springs,what not then get some after market iron. If you can get it done for under $400 then i would keep them and save the extra $$.

[70stroker]

pulled the motor today to start ripping it apart. Well its not a main bearing, but i did find this when i pulled it apart.











Im thinking about selling the blower and putting a 6.0 into it instead of rebuildig it now..... not sure yet.

[chevybuldr]

Ugh not to good there. Did it crack the cylinder or dent it?

[ripdog28]

May have some nasty gouges in the cylinder wall. Might be just as much for a new eng as to rebuild that one.

[70stroker]

heres a few more of the tear down. I think i might have made my mind up to rebuild this motor. just curious as what you think? also ripdog why do you say its gonna cost to much to rebuild this vs a new motor?

the cyclinders are reading 4 1/4 inch which is standard bore. correctly me if im wrong but cant bbc be bored as much as a .100. So i think this can be cleaned up.......

I cant visually see any cracks or to big of gouges in the cylinder wall.

On a positive note i did find out it has a forged crank and it appears to be in great shape. I will probably turn it down .010 to be safe, the order some bearings forged rods and forged pistons, and shop for some heads.....options, options....