BANG !! shot in the foot...

[WHAMMYBAR66]

Hey guys.. my weekend is not going so well...

I purchased a serpintine set up off a used 96 s10 blazer with a 4.3 liter to install on my 69 Blazer. I have always considered the 4.3l just a 350 with 2 cylinders chopped of the end, so they should cross over fine for things like water pumps and stuff... well... not so fast..

I had done this upgrade to my '66 k20 and loved it. I should note here, that my '66 set up is off of a mid 80's tbi camaro or something.. but back to the blazer..

I had the alternator upgraded to 140A self exciter single wire, bought an A/C delete pulley and was ready to install. I did not want to use the 4.3l water pump because it had 2 pressed in steel weird looking heater hose lines. There is also a difference in the pulley mounting, as the 4.3 had a bigger hub. So I used the standard long pump and a correct serp pulley for the smaller hub. Here is a pic of the large hub withthe steel lines I didn't want to use.

[IMG][/IMG]

Well it doesn't work as the water pump pulley sits out about 1/4 inch too far making the belt hang off the pulley. SOOOO.. back to the parts store to get the water pump with the ugly syeel lines and figure out how to make it work.. but once I got back with it, I realized the the pump IS NOT THE SAME.. they changed the block..

You know how on a gen 1 small block pump, the passenger side of the pump has the little water passage under the lower mounting bolt ? This pump, and apparently the newer blocks, do not have this. I think this is safe to say since my pump was said to fit a slew of V-8 applications too.
[IMG][/IMG]

S0 including the alternator, I have about $350.00 invested in a system that WILL NOT WORK on my gen one block.. I am pissed, the wife is pissed.. what a crappy deal.

This is how it sits now.. no water pump.. Understand that I was going to replace the ratty old belt and rusty pulleys after a good test run, which never happened...
[IMG][/IMG]

Does anyone have and application ideas to where I can make this #@#$# thing work ?

My weekend is shot and the truck is still not on the road...

any help appreciated..

whammybar66

[Luvlegs]

Not for nothing and not knowing jack diddly about any of what fits and doesn't or what you are looking for reliabilty wise but could you put an electic pump in there? I'm sure it's going to mean a different belt and some figuring but, there, I threw it out there. Worst part is the ticked spouse, the rest of it, you can get "stuff" to fix. Good luck.

[cdowns]

you r aware that you need a reverse rotation pump for a serp belt system?

[BOZO]

Now I'm shot in the foot too.
I am currently installing a serpentine setup from a wrecked 99 truck with a 4.3 V6 and thought I had everything covered, but upon reading your thread,
I went to the garage and checked and lo and behold, I have the same problem. I intend to research into this a little deeper and find out what this
bottom hole does. If it doesn't cause a problem, I may just drill and tap this
bottom hole and install a allen headed pipe plug. How did you bolt up the passenger side bracket? My Gen 1 882 head only has one bolt on the passenger side. It is currently sitting on the bench with the bracket bolted on with one bolt while I search through threads trying to find the best location to drill the extra hole.

[69 longhorn]

the bottom hole is a by pass.....crazyAL

[thepenguin99]

Is the PN for a 90ish full size truck water pump the same as the one you are trying to use? That pump should bolt up to your block and work with the serp setup I think.

[Ron 586]

5150 can give you chapter and verse on this swap as he has a few under his belt. Woodridge is also a good one to talk to about this swap.

[tomtuna1978]

guys ! just thread the bottom hole for a 1/4 in. allen head pipe plug, like bozo said, and bolt on the new watter pump ! its just a bypass hole and the new pump has that 2nd heater line in it for this... just put the shorter one on the left to a pipe nipple in the back port in the intake

[monte0185]

before you get too P.O.'ed stick a phillips screwdriver in the hole and see if it goes all the way thru. My 307 dosent. I am doing this exact setup and ran into this and was in the same boat when i realized the hole does not go all the way through. its threaded part way and thats it. Now if yours does go thru then you can put a tapered plug from the hardware store in it with some silicone and your good to go. not an issue anymore.

[truckdude239]

the same hole on my 305 doesnt go all the way threw infact on the 327 i removed it had an aligment pin in it

[68C15]

Originally Posted by tomtuna1978

guys ! just thread the bottom hole for a 1/4 in. allen head pipe plug, like bozo said, and bolt on the new watter pump ! its just a bypass hole and the new pump has that 2nd heater line in it for this... just put the shorter one on the left to a pipe nipple in the back port in the intake

BINGO!!!!!
the Vortec engines have the bypass going to the pass. side tube on the pump. this is the one you need to plumb to the back of intake.

[WHAMMYBAR66]

Originally Posted by BOZO

Now I'm shot in the foot too.
I am currently installing a serpentine setup from a wrecked 99 truck with a 4.3 V6 and thought I had everything covered, but upon reading your thread,
I went to the garage and checked and lo and behold, I have the same problem. I intend to research into this a little deeper and find out what this
bottom hole does. If it doesn't cause a problem, I may just drill and tap this
bottom hole and install a allen headed pipe plug. How did you bolt up the passenger side bracket? My Gen 1 882 head only has one bolt on the passenger side. It is currently sitting on the bench with the bracket bolted on with one bolt while I search through threads trying to find the best location to drill the extra hole.

My truck has World Product heads on it.. they already had the holes on the head so it was just bolt on...

[WHAMMYBAR66]

Originally Posted by 68C15

BINGO!!!!!
the Vortec engines have the bypass going to the pass. side tube on the pump. this is the one you need to plumb to the back of intake.

First off, thanks for the info. But can you walk me through where the hoses from this type of 2 line pump go again ? I do NOT have a heater hose going to my radiator. I had one to the water pump and one to the front of the intake.

I am running a Edelbock Pro Flow injection system.. I don't think there are any ports I can tap into at the back of the intake.. got any ideas on how to make this routed correctly ? I can't find much on coolant flow info on the the internet for this...

thanx,
whammybar66

[WHAMMYBAR66]

Originally Posted by monte0185

before you get too P.O.'ed stick a phillips screwdriver in the hole and see if it goes all the way thru. My 307 dosent. I am doing this exact setup and ran into this and was in the same boat when i realized the hole does not go all the way through. its threaded part way and thats it. Now if yours does go thru then you can put a tapered plug from the hardware store in it with some silicone and your good to go. not an issue anymore.

THanks for the info.. How are you going to route your heater hoses ? I don't have a heater hose port on my radiator. THey originally went from the front of the intake to the heater core and from there to the water pump. I don't want to run the wrong, but I can't find any info on how I should do this with the 2 line pump.

[WHAMMYBAR66]

THanks for the info guys !! I have hit some of you up with more questions... I am ignorant on the flow of the coolant with this 2 line style pump. I am afraid that I am gonna route them wrong and mess up the coolant flow through the engine.

Please clue me in on this. I don't have a heater hose port on my radiator. I am running an Edelbrock PROFLO fuel injection system. I don't think it has a port on the back of the intake.

Hit me with your thoughts guys. You have really helped me to get out of the depression so far !!

[WHAMMYBAR66]

ONE MORE EXAMPLE OF HOW AWESOME THIS SITE IS ! THANX GUYS !!


i just checked my block and the little hole does go all the way in to coolant. I stuck my airgun in it and it blew out the hole above it. So I can see plugging that and installing the pump. I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel.. but heater hose order/routing is my next challenge. I want to get the flow right. I don't have a heater hose port on my radiator. Can I cap one of the steel lines on the pump? Originally the heater hoses went to the front of the intake and the water pump. Would capping one work ?

Thanks for the help guys.. !!

Whammybar66

[68C15]

take the heater hose that used to go to the water pump and run it to the driver's side tube on your vortec pump. that is what this port and your truck were both originally designed to do. it is a return port to the inlet side of the pump.
the tube on the pass. side is gonna take more work. you will need to do some pipe thread tapping and drilling. remove the pressed in tube and thread it for a 3/8" pipe fitting (it may need to be 1/2", I can't remember right now) and install a fitting with 3/8 male pipe on one end with 3/8 male hose nipple on the other. the next part will be tricky. you need to drill and tap a port somewhere on the intake which is on the "hot" side of the thermostat. at the rear corner is ideal as it will allow trapped coolant to escape as well as bleed off any air caught in system. be carefull where you drill so as to be in the center of the head's port. use the intake gasket as a guide.

can you post a pic of your rear corner so I can tell you whether to drill straight up and down or at an angle?

[WHAMMYBAR66]

Originally Posted by 68C15

take the heater hose that used to go to the water pump and run it to the driver's side tube on your vortec pump. that is what this port and your truck were both originally designed to do. it is a return port to the inlet side of the pump.
the tube on the pass. side is gonna take more work. you will need to do some pipe thread tapping and drilling. remove the pressed in tube and thread it for a 3/8" pipe fitting (it may need to be 1/2", I can't remember right now) and install a fitting with 3/8 male pipe on one end with 3/8 male hose nipple on the other. the next part will be tricky. you need to drill and tap a port somewhere on the intake which is on the "hot" side of the thermostat. at the rear corner is ideal as it will allow trapped coolant to escape as well as bleed off any air caught in system. be carefull where you drill so as to be in the center of the head's port. use the intake gasket as a guide.

can you post a pic of your rear corner so I can tell you whether to drill straight up and down or at an angle?

THanks for the info.. but I may be hosed... (pun intended). There is no way I am gonna drill on this injection intake. If I screwed it up I don't have the money to buy another one..

Hey, since there is no port at the back of the intake, why does it need one now ? Is it because I will be plugging that little hole under the passenger side of the water pump mount ?

Again, thanks a ton for you help.

Whammybar66

[68C15]

there is another option. race car suppliers have a 2" tall block that spaces your T stat upwards with 4 1/4" NPT holes in it. you could plumb that hose to one of those.

IIRC speedway motors out of Lincoln NE has them.

[monte0185]

Can we get a couple pics of your intake setup? Depending on which EFI intake you have will depend on the setup. I seen a couple with a port on the front of the intake and some without. Couple different ways you can do this.

1. If you have a port in the front of the intake you can run the angled pass side port to it. Then run the other to the heater core. Then run from the heater core to the side port on the intake by the head. Pretty much like the stock setup.
2. If there is no port on the front of the intake you can easily have a radiator shop put in a heater hose port into your radiator for 20-30$ if i remember correctly. Then run the other heater hode to the top port on the water pump and just stick a rubber cover over the other and clamp it off. This will still provide adequite water flow for the heater core to heat up nicely.

The second port coming from the front of the intake to the water pump just allows for the water to bypass and flow more evenly. Better for temp sensors on computer controlled vehicles but not necessary for yours since edelbrock has taken that into account and adapted their system for the older style coolant setup.

Hope this makes sense. I am not the greatest at explaining it. lots easier for me to show ya and explain.

[WHAMMYBAR66]

Originally Posted by monte0185

before you get too P.O.'ed stick a phillips screwdriver in the hole and see if it goes all the way thru. My 307 dosent. I am doing this exact setup and ran into this and was in the same boat when i realized the hole does not go all the way through. its threaded part way and thats it. Now if yours does go thru then you can put a tapered plug from the hardware store in it with some silicone and your good to go. not an issue anymore.

Update : After doing some research on possible effect, I did take your advice and installed a tapered plug into the hole and hooked everything up.. thanks for the advice..

Whammybar66

[WHAMMYBAR66]

OK !! So I installed a tapered plug in the hole on the passenger side, that is right under the water pump. I blocked off the outlet tube of the water pump. I hooked the outlet of the heater to the input of the water pump. Hooked everything up, filled up and cranked it up. No leaks.

Went out and took a short easy test drive, came back and rechecked it. No leaks and cooling fine. Shot the clyinders with my infared gun and they all checked even.. I don't know how good of a test that is, but it made me feel better.

Than I sat in the street in front of the house and slowly took it up to higher rpm, then snapped it a few times to make sure the belt was gonna stick.

Then took it out and drove it as hard as I could without literally trying to blow something up. Drove great. Cooled great. No belt squeal. CHarged good. And hauled ass...

The real test is in the coming days as that little plug has to prove its not gonna leak/seep long term.

THank you all for your input. You were a TON OF HELP !!

Hopefully everything will hold long term...

whammybar66

[jayman68]

That is a pretty cool upgrade with the serp. I'm going to have to look into that. Thanks for the thread.

[monte0185]

Glad we could help. Best of luck!!

[chevy_mike]

Not sure how I missed this thread but do you know that you can use an '89-'92 Camaro V8 water pump, which has the extra hole under the lower bolt, works with the serpentine belt system (i.e. reverse flow, correct lenght, etc.) and has a single heater output angled similar to a stock setup. This is what I used on my setup.