Vortec 454...?

[Rede]

I found a 454 pulled out of a 1999 2500 with 130,000km.
Comes with all accessories, wiring and PCM.
Run great when pulled.

Besides an electronic fuel pump, is this a difficult task to drop in an 80's k20?

Only reason I'm asking is that it's listed at 750 beans vs a greasy old school 454 with 250,000+km for 650.

I'm about to yank the 4spd and put in a th400 and since I just got my holiday payout from 2009.... well....you know...

just tossing it out there before I buy something else then kik myself that I didn't jump on a good deal however I don't want to go crazy on a winter beater/bush toy.

[STOCKISH]

Sounds like a fun swap. It will physically bolt up so you just need to hook up the injection. Would make for a fun weekend project.

[Rede]

That's where I'm at a loss...
It sounds like the motor was pulled out and being sold complete, but I haven't the foggiest idea in how to plug the PCM the stuff into my old truck. Lol

[SSC's76]

PM Dirty Larry or do some searches for his posts. I sure he would have alot of pointers for you. He has a vortec BB with all the injection under his hood.

[thepenguin99]

You can put an old bbc intake and carb on it if you don't want to mess with the injection.

[Rede]

Originally Posted by thepenguin99

You can put an old bbc intake and carb on it if you don't want to mess with the injection.

I'm not familure with vortecs at all...
Are all the parts (besides sensors and intake/injection) swapable like cams/intake from the older years or are they not comparable like the ls series blocks?

Any perticular intake a guy should lean towards for low buck performance right off the hop?



I took a look at the custom wiring harness reffered to in dirty larry's build pluss cost of PCM and it's about 3/4 of what I paid for the truck originally last fall. It's not horible by any mens, just more than I would like to spend right now. (I r cheap)
buuut if I can run a standard intake and carb on it, maybe it would prove to be a little more reliable than the typical junker... Hmmm

[thepenguin99]

The Gen VI engines are imo better than most junk yard 454s you will find. I say this because finding a good running old (70s) 454 with large oval heads isn't going to be common and Vortec > peanut port engines in every way. I did a decent amount of reading on them since I bought one to stick in my 86. In stock form they have 9:1 compression and the heads are better than peanut port heads. The cam is a roller but is anemic from the factory. People have reported being able to drop in ZZ502 cam but it is rated for more lift than the springs are supposed to handle. Personally, I went with the Mercruiser takeout cam which you can buy for $40 shipped. Higher duration than stock with similar to stock lift so I don't have to mess with the springs. Normally I wouldn't mind messing with springs but you can't buy any drop-in springs for the Vortec heads that support higher lift.

As far as intake suggestion I personally picked up a Performer 2.0 at a swap meet for $50. In hindsight I think the performer RPM air gap is a better choice. The Performer 2.0 ports are sized more for peanut port heads so I will have to port them a bit to make them match the heads.

[Rede]

Picked up the 454 and it intact except for accessories and the injector wiring harness.

However, when I asked at the local stealership about carbed intakes, he parts guy said that I would need a gen VI intake as the coolant ports are different.
After pulling the intake, I noticed that these heads have coolant ports (lack of proper name) on each end of the heads.
But when I looked up various intakes on jegs and summit, I saw only intakes with coolant ports on the front (guessing it's the front).

The only thing I can find for "genIV 454 carb intake" has to do with marine intakes and the one I found was 750 us. =s

to make things fun, I can't find a stock injector wiring setup unless I drop 650 on a custom wiring harness, which is more than I paid for the motor.

I don't suppose anyone has suggestions on reasonable intake?

[454HO]

I have pretty much the same engine penguin is building. My BB vortec is from a '00 truck. I put a Performer 2-O intake on in place of the beer keg MPFI intake. Not sure what gasket I used other than it was a generic FelPro. The carb I am using is a Holley 750cfm vacuum secondary. I tried an Edelbrock Performer carb first, but I did not like it.

I have a GM Performance distributor with melonized gear on it. And I have Hedman Elite longtube headers with full 3" ehaust. Performance with the stock cam was pretty lackluster. Tons of off idle torque, but all out of breath by 4200-4500 rpm.

After driving it it around for a year, I found the Mercruiser M1 takeout cam at Competion Products. It has the same lift, but 20 degrees more duration and slightly tighter lobe seperation. I installed one of these cams last year, and it has made significant improvement in midrange torque. The engine still runs out of breath around 4500-4700rpm, but part of reason is because I did not put in fresh valve springs. BTW, you can get 454HO takeout springs at Comp Prods for about $100 and they will drop right in with no machining. But if you do this, I recommend tossing the valve rotators and put in spacers. I have heard you may need to debur the head casting to get them to seat though.

And to clarify, the valve lift with these heads is not limited by the valve springs per say. The limitation is that the spring retainer will bottom out on the valve stem seal. To run anything over about .510" lift, you will need to pull the heads and have the valve guides machined down. Of course you will also need to go to adjustable rocker arms and probably a bunch of other stuff.

If you are dead set on retaining the fuel injection, I would suggest buying the shop manual for the truck that the engine came out of. You can get it from Helm Inc. Don't bother with Chilton's or Haynes, they will not have near enough detail. Also, do not expect it to be a hot rod. The upper half of the intake is very restrictive. And the PCM will definately need to be retuned.

[Pyrotechnic]

If you got the TBI stuff I would use it. Easy cold starts and the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it. Can't beat the fact that it's got low miles on it too.

[Rede]

O rly?

well no I'm not dead set on the tbi setup, but when the temp drops to -45 to -55F for a week or two during the winter, I'd still like to get to work. lol

It would be nice to put the efi setup to use, but the carb setup I was told is much easier, but the intake info I was lacking had me really second guessing myself...

Would that intake be decent for low-mid range torque?
This truck is going to be on the trails, in some mud, snow, ect...but primary function is a winter beater to run around town so I figure I don't need high rpms.

What size of carb would be reasonable?
Would the quadrajunk on my 350 be reuseable? And if it is, would it be decent or not worth it?

If I can keep my budget low on the needed parts (ie: used or "helluva deal") then I don't get much flak from the wife, but if I'm looking at another 700 bucks....

[454HO]

Seeing how you intend to use the truck, it would probably be worth the effort to keep the fuel injection setup. It is designed for low end torque, which sounds like what you need.

To set up the MPFI system, you will need to splice in the wiring harness making any changes required. You will need a high pressure fuel pump and the plumbing to and from the fuel rail. The engine I bought was fly-by-wire, so I assume yours is to. If so, you will need the gas pedal assembly to retrofit into your truck to hook this up. Expect to get the PCM reprogrammed at least once. It would be wise to use a programmer that gives a discount on a re-tune if needed, otherwise this can get expensive. The nice thing is, once you have this setup running correctly, it should give you excellent reliability and probably the best fuel ecomomy.

But in my opinion, a carb really is easier to implement. Especially if you have most of the parts laying around like I did. All I had to buy was the intake manifold and gaskets. I already had several carbs and distributors. The only other thing you would need for a carb setup is an electric fuel pump. These vortec engines are not machined for a mechanical fuel pump.

Basically this comes down to personal taste. Weigh the pros and cons of both and pick the one you can live with.

[Rede]

EFI dollar wise, its 725 for the painless wiring kit and 350 for a PCM flash/tune. = 1075

Carb route, its 250 for new Performer 2.0 intake, 400 for new 650cfm carb, 120 for waterpump, 122 for blue holley fuel pump, 215 for distro. = 1107


I may be able to re-use my carb and distro, but the sotkcing looking carb on my 350 might not push enough CFM and I'd have to compair the disto's to see if I can re-use mine.
This would add resonable cost savings if it can be done without the truck running like a bag of crap...



Mileage isn't an issue really because I'll rarely leave town unless I'm off to the salvage yard or heading to cruise around in the bush.
If it was an issue I wouldn't be going with a 454 and a TH400

[BigBlocksRule]

Scavenge a wiring harness and computer from a truck originally equipped with one. Then snag yourself a 4L80E, toughest GM put in one right up to the Allison. The harness will also run the tranny, so you'll get the best of both worlds. Swap out the injectors, they're known for leakage and resulting hydro-lock.

[Rede]

That would deffinately be ideal, but after being labeled basically a financial burden by the wife and having her go on and on for 1/2 an hour straight about "you should have just bought a five thousand dollar truck that was done already" , "it feels like it's mickle and dining us" and "you get your holliday pay and don't even tell me about it"....
I've almost had enough and was soooo close to liquidating the whole truck, both engines, trans missions and the brand new 33x11.5 KL71's for 2500 just so I could shut her up....

So this is going to have continue on the cheap route.

I've only seen a couple of 454tbi equiped vehicles over the last ten years.
Seems everyone here went 350, diesel or 6L.
My chances of finding the injector harness are pretty slim here and my eBay and province wide kijiji searches have came up empty.