Make it handle

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Rob I'm having problems keeping the rear of my truck pointing the right way lol will a rear bar keep the rear from lifting the inside wheel to much and help the "bite" through a corner? As of right now the front hugs and grabs the road but the rear feels like a cow made of jello

[jlsanborn]

I stumbled across this AWESOME thread a couple weeks back and so far am about ½ way through it. I’ve also watched most of your Youtube stuff and browsed your website. NICE STUFF!! I’ve already picked up some great advise just reading and was going to wait until I finished before asking any questions, but I think my situation will be somewhat unique and it’s not likely been addressed here yet. Plus, I wanna order springs today!

’67 LWB C-10, SBC, M-20 4 speed is what we’re building and are at the chassis stage. I’ve already flipped the trailing arm mounts and will be fabbing my own rear shock relocate parts. I’ll also do the low-hung and long panhard rod. I’ll probably fab my own mounting parts, but may buy the rod with bushing and spherical end. I’m also doing the ¾” LCA relocate.

The objective is the “muscle car look” with a small amount of rake. I’ve got 2-1/2” conversion spindles (heavy five lug rotors) already and a 5 lug rear from a ‘70. I have 235/60-15 on 15x8 steel (4.25bs) for the front and 295/50-15 on 15x10 steel (4.25bs) for the rear. What springs would you recommend? I was thinking a 5” for the rear, then I’d fab an additional block that I could “wedge” to perfect the pinion angle. Do you think a 2” spring for the front would be too much? Is there a “bone-yard” sway bar combination that would work decent? Is there a target eye-to-eye dimension for the rear shock I should be trying to hit?

Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

Rob I'm having problems keeping the rear of my truck pointing the right way lol will a rear bar keep the rear from lifting the inside wheel to much and help the "bite" through a corner? As of right now the front hugs and grabs the road but the rear feels like a cow made of jello

Dude if you are lifting the inside rear, you need to SLOW DOWN jk
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[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Dude if you are lifting the inside rear, you need to SLOW DOWN jk
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Haha maybe I'm asking to much from a truck to expect it to keep up with bmws on a roadcoarse haha

Maybe a big daytona wing to keep the rear tires planted? Hahaha

Anyways I need a panhard. Any advice on making a good home made panhard?
Low is good but what parts should one get?

[jlsanborn]

Duh! '71 rear (Knuckle-head corrected me here!).

[jlsanborn]

One piece driveline? The Muncie is about 5" longer than the three speed. I'd love to chop that carrier out of my cross member, but am not sure if a one-piece would be too long. I'll have to get one made, so if I have to go biggie-size that's not an issue.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by jlsanborn

One piece driveline? The Muncie is about 5" longer than the three speed. I'd love to chop that carrier out of my cross member, but am not sure if a one-piece would be too long. I'll have to get one made, so if I have to go biggie-size that's not an issue.

A single piece driveshaft can work just fine and many guys on here run them.

The length won't be an issue as long as the diameter is increased to match.

Pretty much any driveshaft shop can build you the right one for your truck in a size that will live for your intended application. The biggest problem is the small and weak 1310 series U-joints in most of our trucks. They will fail and take out your new driveshaft and possibly tear up your truck if you put any kind of power to the ground and hook up.

If you are going to build a custom driveshaft then upgrade to a 1350 series U-joint. It will require a matching pinon yoke change in the rear end and a matching transmission yoke to be purchased but you will pretty much never break a U-joint ever again and your new driveshaft will live a long trouble free life.

[robnolimit]

Not really on topic, but for fun, check out the Hot News on the Good Guys web site.
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[duallyjams]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Not really on topic, but for fun, check out the Hot News on the Good Guys web site.
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classic

[Wasted Income]

...even if I get beat I still win because he’s running my stuff

LOL! I have the same mindset when I tune other people's boosted LS motas....they might be faster than me, but only because they're running my tune

[CSGAS]

I think the show GreyWolf mentioned also had a few shots of the autocross competitors, that included Hellboy with the decals blurred out.

[robnolimit]

I'm back, and I'm on it.

Here's a fun one for ya.

Road Racing Terms.

Understeer : When you hit the wall with the front of the truck
Oversteer : When you hit the wall with the back of the truck
Horsepower : How fast your going when you hit the wall
Torque : How far the wall moves when you hit it.

This is the stuff you realy need to know

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

I'm back, and I'm on it.

Here's a fun one for ya.

Road Racing Terms.

Understeer : When you hit the wall with the front of the truck
Oversteer : When you hit the wall with the back of the truck
Horsepower : How fast your going when you hit the wall
Torque : How far the wall moves when you hit it.

This is the stuff you realy need to know

So in other words we are weapons of mass destruction with our horrible understeer trucks that snap oversteer going too fast with high hp and monster torque big blocks?

Maybe you can tell us about threshold braking when an understeer issue is present?
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[69gmcc10]

Thanks for the lingo, but are you hinting at something? We didnt hear from you for a few days and now you are taking about accident stuff! You didnt have an understeer-horespower-oversteer-torque problem did you?

[robnolimit]

No No, I didn't test out any of those racing terms. Just thought it was funny

[robnolimit]

Check out the new issue of Street Trucks. Believe it or not, they have allowed me to right a column. My deal was like this, i'll do it, but you have to print what I give you. I agreed to let them fix the spelling, but they can't re-write it. They are giving me a lot of room here, as long as I talk about performance trucks/suspension. I've got some cool stuff planned, so check it out. It should be fun. No, they are not paying me, but with that, they can't tell me what to write! Part of the decision had to do with the popularity of this thread, and all of your interest. Thanks for the interest. I think we can change the truck world, maybe just a little!

[67cheby]

Awesome !

[jlsanborn]

Rob,
I've sent you PM regarding my No Limit parts. Look forward to seeing your column! When do you suppose the first issue date would be? Have a specific topic picked out?

[jlsanborn]

Originally Posted by jlsanborn

Rob,
I've sent you PM regarding my No Limit parts. Look forward to seeing your column! When do you suppose the first issue date would be? Have a specific topic picked out?

Rob,
FedX just stopped by. Thanks! Another PM sent.

[robnolimit]

SHOCKSI'm seeing a lot of talk here lately about shocks, so how about we talk about them here. First we all need to understand what a shock is. A shock is a dampner, or a device used to control the suspesion movement, by regulating how fast the suspension can compress or rebound givin a certian amount of load. The shock works in two directions. Compresion and rebound, or closing and opening. On most cars and trucks, the compresion rate is different than the rebound rate to make the car/truck feel balanced. Some of the forces that come in to play are, the total weight of the vehicle, the corner weight per shock, the motion ratio of the suspesion/shock travel, shock angle, unsprung weight, weight transfer due to braking, acceleration and/or cornering, speed, and size and shape of the road surface, and or bumps.
Here's where we're all screwed - we own trucks. The shock world is focused on cars. Performance, ride quality, testing..., it's all about cars. Except for off road shocks, built for a certain type of truck, still, not for a performance oriented street truck. So, your screwed. - until you learn about shocks AND trucks.
Why is a truck so different? Take a look and remember all tha factors that go into a shock. Your truck is REALLY nose heavy. also, the rear is REALLY light. The truck is too heavy, and the center of gravity us too high. This means it has a lOT more weight transfer under braking, acceleration, cornering, than a car. Truck susension parts are heavy, and we run bigger, heavier wheel and tire combos, so unsprung weight is way up too. all of this is bad. Now remember this, ALL performance shocks are designed for cars.
So, its up to you to think about it, and figure out how to pick shocks that might help. When we started with Romic shocks, They were, and still are, really good about working with us to get what we wanted. Most companies sell "coil-overs", front or rear, whatever, same part. So we kept going back to them - Rear shocks must be softer, again. and front compression must be firmer, again, and again. We would test, they would dyno, build more, we test, ..... Here is what we came up with.
First of all, most springs, on most trucks, are WAY TOO STIFF. They are trucks afterall, and, the aftermarket seams to copy the stock spring, but shorter, and most times, even stiffer. - not helping. This makes the shock problem even harder. Weight is a big issue, so front shocks are way different than rear shocks. For basics, we need a front shock that has a firm compression, and even firmer rebound. On the rear, we need a really soft compression, and a medium/firm rebound.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

If i call bilstein can they make a custom shock that will work for these trucks?
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[robnolimit]

Many shock manufacturers can do custom builds, but you may have to tell them what you want. This is exactly why I wanted to start this discussion. Many people have commented how they are happy, or unhappy, with a certain shock. I have found that I need to mix and match to get what I want.
I used to use a lot of shocks from Carrera Shocks. They were bought out by Q-A1. They had some performance spec shocks that you could cutom order based on three things. Length, Mounting, andValving. The valving was based on a 1 to 9 scale, 1 = xx soft, 9 = xx firm. Split valve shocks were, and are available, and when discussing valving, the compression number goes first. I found that most of the trucks we built were very nice to drive with a 6/5 front, 7/6 for big block trucks, and a 3/6, or 3/7 rear shock. Also I learned that gas pressurized mono tube shocks are ok in the front, but are not soft enough for the back. Afco, Speedway, and others offer shocks like this. But WE have to know what to get, and this may require changing some mounts.

[fatgump]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Many shock manufacturers can do custom builds, but you may have to tell them what you want. This is exactly why I wanted to start this discussion. Many people have commented how they are happy, or unhappy, with a certain shock. I have found that I need to mix and match to get what I want.
I used to use a lot of shocks from Carrera Shocks. They were bought out by Q-A1. They had some performance spec shocks that you could cutom order based on three things. Length, Mounting, andValving. The valving was based on a 1 to 9 scale, 1 = xx soft, 9 = xx firm. Split valve shocks were, and are available, and when discussing valving, the compression number goes first. I found that most of the trucks we built were very nice to drive with a 6/5 front, 7/6 for big block trucks, and a 3/6, or 3/7 rear shock. Also I learned that gas pressurized mono tube shocks are ok in the front, but are not soft enough for the back. Afco, Speedway, and others offer shocks like this. But WE have to know what to get, and this may require changing some mounts.

Is there a shock you would recommend to go with your Nolimit rear shock relocate mounts?

[jlsanborn]

So what about us non-racers / daily drivers that wanna stay around a couple hunny for four shocks and buy them at Napa? What would you recommend? Also, how would you calculate stroke length?

[Mechanic77]

I don't want to complicate the shock discussion too much, but doesn't shock mounting location/angle also affect what valving is required? Like, how much difference for rear shock valving would there be for stock mounting location vs. your relocated mounts that put the shocks considerably closer to the wheels and more vertical (on a lowered truck)?