T5 Trans Swap into 66 C10 - couple questions

[jocko]

Howdy Truckers,
Have a T5 that I am swapping into my 66 C10. As expected, the input shaft is too long, so exploring a couple options. I know I can have the input shaft cut down (and the splines ground down a bit, and the bearing retainer collar cut back a bit as well), but my main question is about using the Hamilton adapter plate http://hamiltonintakes.com/products/...5-swap-adapter

A couple questions:
- Is this adapter ONLY for adjusting the input shaft length problem (or does it also compensate for a mismatch between the T5's bearing retainer collar diameter and the bell housing index ring opening diameter? (I THINK it is only for adjusting the input shaft length problem - i.e. if the T5 bearing retainer collar and the bell hsg diameters match - and then you can use the adapter.
Anyone know?

- if one uses the adapter - the splines, and collar are set back an equivalent amount relative to the insides of the bell hsg (i.e. throwout, clutch disk, etc). Since the adapter moves the whole trans back approx 9/16" (and therefore the input shaft does not need to be cut) - do the splines on the T5 shaft also move back the appropriate amount such that no splines need to be cut back? (I THINK this is the case - that they do not need to be cut, but not sure).

- Finally - the bearing retainer collar....
My old 3-speed's bearing retainer collar is 3+1/8" long.
The T5's bearing retainer collar is 4+1/2" long.
Difference is 1+3/8" approx.
The Hamilton spacer is 9/16" thick.
So - does the T5's bearing retainer collar need to be shortened?
If so, how much? My assumption would be (1+3/8" collar diff - 9/16" spacer)=13/16"...
Anyone know? Might be able to not shorten it at all, i.e. 9/16" spacer may compensate enough, but wnot sure. All things being equal, I think it should be shortened approx 13/16". Thoughts?

Appreciate the help folks.
jocko

[usmcchevy]

Someone?

[Scot_Douglas]

Originally Posted by jocko

Howdy Truckers,
Have a T5 that I am swapping into my 66 C10. As expected, the input shaft is too long, so exploring a couple options. I know I can have the input shaft cut down (and the splines ground down a bit, and the bearing retainer collar cut back a bit as well), but my main question is about using the Hamilton adapter plate http://hamiltonintakes.com/products/...5-swap-adapter

Says that plate is out of production...
Here is some info I hope that helps - FYI, I have a 86 T-10 from an S-10 that the shaft and collar were already cut down by the previous owner.

A couple questions:
- Is this adapter ONLY for adjusting the input shaft length problem (or does it also compensate for a mismatch between the T5's bearing retainer collar diameter and the bell housing index ring opening diameter? (I THINK it is only for adjusting the input shaft length problem - i.e. if the T5 bearing retainer collar and the bell hsg diameters match - and then you can use the adapter.
Anyone know?

It appears the adapter (if you can find it) has the same retainer collar diameter as the "early" cast bellhousings (yours). You shouldn't need the additional "shim" ring you reference.

- if one uses the adapter - the splines, and collar are set back an equivalent amount relative to the insides of the bell hsg (i.e. throwout, clutch disk, etc). Since the adapter moves the whole trans back approx 9/16" (and therefore the input shaft does not need to be cut) - do the splines on the T5 shaft also move back the appropriate amount such that no splines need to be cut back? (I THINK this is the case - that they do not need to be cut, but not sure).

Ah ha, herein lies the potential problem. My recent experience has taught me this: If you use the smaller 10/10.5" s-10 "V8 conversion" clutch kit, and have the appropriate flywheel (153T or dual-pattern 167T) - You will be fine with the spacer alone and no spline mods

HOWEVER

If you're like me and have a 168T / 11" flywheel, it is too big for the "proper" clutch kit, i.e. durned thing is too big for the smaller pressure plate/disc. So, in this case I used a clutch kit from a 96 Astrovan with a 4.3L / T5 - that is a bigger clutch and everything fits awesome...

EXCEPT ( )

The center of the Astro hub sits too far toward the trans - this is where you may have heard of people cutting splines farther back. I've also read of one guy who found a source for Vega clutch hubs and had them riveted in place of the Astro's hub. What I found is that the hub bottoms on the input splines about 0.20" to 0.25" before the transmission touches the bellhousing. My opinion - on any input shaft, especially the 1" diameter T-5 part - do not fock with the splines - you're only weakening a small shaft further.

My solution was to take a 1" drill bit and counterbore the splines in the clutch hub on the transmission side approximately 0.10", than I added a 0.20" spacer between the trans and bellhousing - similar to the 9/16" think adapter you're considering. There is still plenty of bearing retainer left inside the bellhousing to keep the input shaft aligned a a piece of clay stuck in the pilot bearing shows about 7/16" of the pilot is in the bushing when everything is torqued down.


I hope this helps if - you have any more questions - shoot me a private message and I'll give you my phone #.

[jocko]

Scot, that is great info, thanks so much for posting. I'm gonna give Hamlton another call because last week when I spoke with them, they were only temporarily out of production - waiting on a new foundry to provide the aluminum. I hope they weren't stringin me along. No reason for them to do so, he seemed like a good guy. That spaceer would solve all my problems. You're correct - the index ring diameters are all good to go and the spacer would take care of i/p shaft depth AND spline location relative to the clutch disk. I too have an Astro 11" clutch and pressure plate. It's deeper than the stock setup, BUT the release bearing is shallower so still plenty of room in the bell hsg. But if the spacer is NOT available - I think I'm in a bit of a situation - my release bearing collar is 4.5" long, I think I'm going to have to cut it no matter what.

In the meantime I stripped one of the bolts in the aluminum for the collar and have to stuff a helicoil in it. Pain in the #$%^&*!! And not cheap. I'm THIS close to just getting a properly fitting TREMEC TKO.... But I'm gonna call Hamilton back and see if they really have punted on making the spacer. I don't believe I would trust another place to take a wag at properly centering the index ring if they made a spacer - max runout that is acceptable is < .005" I believe or you're just asking for a premature failure of the i/p shaft. Will post again if I hear anything back from Hamilton. Frustrating, what should have been a weekend job is gonna keep me from being able to drive this thing half the summer. And I bought a lot of parts based on a phone discussion with Hamilton that they were going to produce the plate again - if they've bailed, I'm out quite a few bucks and won't be really happy with them. Oh well, all part of hot rodding.

[jocko]

I sent them a note - will see if they reply. The shop is just 3 dudes doing it in their spare time and they have day jobs, so I can understand it takes a few days for them to get back to me. No worries. But hopefully they will get back to me. I checked the site, it does say out of stock like you mentioned - that may be as a result of my initial conversation with them so they could let folks know it's not readily available. They did say about 3 weeks though.

I've geeked out a bit and put the whole old and new clutch/pressure plate, i/p shaft, bearing retainer collar, pilot shaft, etc etc "in cardboard" just so I could see visually what I've got going on. The spacer would solve the spline problem - and I measure about the same as you - 7/16" pilot shaft engagement in the pilot bushing, and that's good enough for me.

Are you concerned that with the spacers you used that the trans may not be centered properly? Or are the spacers so small that the bearing retainer index ring still engages the bell hsg opening hole so it stays centered?
I'm Just curious. Gotta start thinking about alternatives if I don't hear good news on the spacer.

[Scot_Douglas]

Bearing retainer still engages far enough into the bellhousing - no worries there.

[jocko]

actually, the opposite is the problem - it engages too far if not cut down. It bumps up against the clutch disk hub, just barely, but it does. And that is with the 3/4" thick hamilton spacer - without that - it REALLY bumps into the clutch disk hub. In my particular case, I'll need to cut about 3/4"-1" off the bearing retainer to ensure there is still enough for the release bearing to ride on yet also makes sure that the clutch disk hub doesn't rub on it.

[Scot_Douglas]

Whoops - I thought you meant the wide part of the bearing retainer that is used as a "pilot" where the trans slips into the bellhousing.

[jocko]

HA! Sorry - I misunderstood which end you were talking about. Yes, the index ring end fits nicely and there is plenty of room for my new release bearing to ride on it and be adjustable as to when it engages the pressure plate diaphragm. Thanks for the clarification!