K-10 Closed Knuckle Needs Repair

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by JPBrecheisen

You can get the bearings (cups and cones) from any local parts store.
Part numbers for the cup/cone trunion bearings are 11590 and 11520. Should run you about $100 bucks for all of them. You will need 4 of each. They are super easy to replace. Only special tools you need is a soft brass drift or a punch and a medium size hammer for taping the races out from the axle housing.

When you replace them, you'll have to re-shim the trunion caps. Shims are available for about $5.00. THe ball seals are also available for $9.00 per side. I have a maintenance book that has the specifications. You'll need a spring scale to set the correct pre-load with the shims. You can get buy without one if you have to.

If you want to change out to a open knuckle axle, move ahead with your project, but if this is your daily driver, you can replace the kingpin bearings no problem in an afternoon. You won't even need that many tools to do the job. Other than some greasy hands, you'd have about 6 hours in the whole thing tops to get it fixed up. Why change a whole axle out for some warn king pin bearings??? JMO.

Look at Walck's 4WD for the knuckle seals and shims. They are available at other places, but the old Willy's Jeeps used the same king pins and seals, and they're super cheap from Walck's. Other places sell them for about 4x the price..no thanks. I'm doing a 1962 GMC K1000 right now and I just got everything I needed for less than 150 bucks.

PM or call if you want. (254-423-7237) I can help you out. Check my thread on the truck I'm working on. There is pictures of the axle I did on my Willys wagon. They're way easy to service and work on. For some reaosn, they've gotten a bad name for no reason what so ever. I say fix the bearings and keep it original. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a closed knuckle axle.

Jonathon

Other than a significantly worse turning radius and vastly inferior brakes (drum vs disc).

[JPBrecheisen]

I didn't think he was looking for a better turning radius and better brakes.

He said he had tire wear issues which lends to suspect worn king pin bearings. King pin bearings is a cheap easy job to do. Its a heck of a lot less work than swapping a whole axle. The guy uses it as his daily driver and he can get back on the road a lot cheaper and with a lot less work with just doing a bearing job.

The closed knuckle and drum set ups were the technology of the time and they did just fine when properly serviced and maintained. Upgrading is one thing, but helping this guy with his original problem is another.

I'm not going to argue with anybody over which is better. Folks have their opinions, and I have mine. I was just trying to help the guy out and save him some work and money.

Jonathon

[The Grand Pooh-Bah]

Thanks for the advice Jonathon. I especially want the better brakes and the turning radius will come in handy when turning around on our logging roads that have 300' cliffs on one side. I have already invested in the replacement open knuckle front axle.

All I really need at this point is someone to tell me how to connect the new brake lines to the old connections at the frame.

{Adapters, Different Year/Model Brake Lines, New lines from Master Cylinder or ??????}












.







.

[JPBrecheisen]

No problem.

Send a pic of your brake issue. Might be able to make a suggestion.

Jonathon

[j.kirn]

Originally Posted by JPBrecheisen

You can get the bearings (cups and cones) from any local parts store.
Part numbers for the cup/cone trunion bearings are 11590 and 11520. Should run you about $100 bucks for all of them. You will need 4 of each. They are super easy to replace. Only special tools you need is a soft brass drift or a punch and a medium size hammer for taping the races out from the axle housing.

When you replace them, you'll have to re-shim the trunion caps. Shims are available for about $5.00. THe ball seals are also available for $9.00 per side. I have a maintenance book that has the specifications. You'll need a spring scale to set the correct pre-load with the shims. You can get buy without one if you have to.

If you want to change out to a open knuckle axle, move ahead with your project, but if this is your daily driver, you can replace the kingpin bearings no problem in an afternoon. You won't even need that many tools to do the job. Other than some greasy hands, you'd have about 6 hours in the whole thing tops to get it fixed up. Why change a whole axle out for some warn king pin bearings??? JMO.

Look at Walck's 4WD for the knuckle seals and shims. They are available at other places, but the old Willy's Jeeps used the same king pins and seals, and they're super cheap from Walck's. Other places sell them for about 4x the price..no thanks. I'm doing a 1962 GMC K1000 right now and I just got everything I needed for less than 150 bucks.

PM or call if you want. (254-423-7237) I can help you out. Check my thread on the truck I'm working on. There is pictures of the axle I did on my Willys wagon. They're way easy to service and work on. For some reaosn, they've gotten a bad name for no reason what so ever. I say fix the bearings and keep it original. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a closed knuckle axle.

Jonathon

I agree on the theres nothing wrong with the closed knuckle axle i am in no hurry, i dont ride people i stop just fine in mine plus steers great

[JPBrecheisen]

I assume the hard lines that run out of the frame horns of your are probably a different size tubing that the truck from the donor axle had.

Is that what you are seeing? The female end of the new brake flex hose probably swallowing up the male B-nut on the hard line?

If this is the case, you'll need to acquire an adapter to make up for the difference in fitting sizes. A local parts store should have an assortment from which to choose from. Some of the mainstream stores like Advance have quite a bit more selection available behind the counter, so don't hesitate to ask to see what they have and explain your scenario.

You could change out the whole hard line from master to frame horn, but make sure you get the right size B-Nut for each end as you'll be changing the size on the wheel side, but not the master cylinder side. I hope that makes sense. I would image that power disk brakes use a larger tubing size that standard drum brakes do. I never really made the comparison, so I'm not 100% sure. If the sizes are different, I would estimate the "correct" way to do the disk upgrade would be to support the calipers with the correct size tubing from master cyclinder to the caliper, but I'm not a fluid dynamics engineer so who knows.

If you can't get all that in, you may also think about triming back a section of the tubing on each frame horn, re-flare and use an adapter union to step it to the correct size tubing and B-nut at the flex line connection. I think that would at least get you going if you have the tools to cut and re-double flare the tubing. Its a bit of a pain, but that may get you back on the road. I would try to stay away from this idea as the more connections you have, the more you are prone to leaks etc.

I suppose I would check for and adapter first that you can just stick between the old hard line and the new flex line, then go from there.

Here are some tid bits I found on Pirate 4x4 regarding brake tubing that might be helpful to you.

3/16” hardline fittings are 3/8-24 thread, ¼” hardline fittings are 7/16-24 thread.

Most tube today is 3/16” or ¼”. 3/16” is stiffer, lighter, and easier to bend. It and its associated fittings are also the most common. ¼” has less internal friction (less resistant to fluid flow) and is easier to handle without damaging. Note that ¼” DOES NOT “provide more volume” to actuate the callipers more quickly as I have read more times than I care to remember. The MC piston’s bore and stroke determines the fluid volume displaced and therefore the pedal stroke required to apply the brakes. The tubing is sealed and full – its diameter has nothing to do with it (within reason) and you certainly won’t notice the difference between ¼” and 3/16” – except maybe the placebo effect coz your buddy said so! I personally like to use ¼” simply because it’s easier to handle – you can get away with a less-than-perfect bend that you wouldn’t be able to with 3/16” tube.

Jonathon

[The Grand Pooh-Bah]

According to NAPA's site the 72 brake hose is 3/8-24 female and the 68 is 7/16-20 male. Photos of the hoses show both having male threads though. I need new hoses (host hoses were cut) so I guess I'll get those ordered to start.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Grand Pooh-Bah]

Is this a proportioning valve?
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Grand Pooh-Bah]

Oops double posted

[JPBrecheisen]

Yes this is a proportioning valve.

It is needed to keep the rear brakes from locking up when all the weight is shifted forward on the front wheels during braking action.

Your front brakes do most of the work while the rears assist.