Death wobble anyone have it - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

blaz72 · 11-13-2003, 09:51 PM

The D/W, in my 78 1 ton 4x4, has been around for ever and is getting old, only when using brakes and i no it is not a brake problem have replaced lots of front end parts over the years and just cant pin point it.Have not tried washer trick yet,and not running very big tires.Wont do it in rain or snow, but one rear brake does lock up.And some times D/W wont happen for days.ANY info would help.

LeRoy · 11-14-2003, 02:31 AM

What tires are you running. OLD, bias ply, ect.

Mudder · 11-14-2003, 04:49 AM

Steering stablizer? Cracked frame around the box?

ozarkhippie · 11-14-2003, 10:18 AM

I would asume it has a Dana 60 front. Have you checked to see if the king pin bushings are worn out letting the hub wobble on the kingpins.

drink2mny · 11-14-2003, 09:33 PM

I have it in my '86 Blazer It has 1 ton running gear, 60 up front.14ff out back..
I have replaced everything on the front endkingpind the cones that go over them. everything.. except shocks.I run a dual stabilizer with 3 months worth of use. I have a steering box frame brace and it has the plate also..
I run 36" and sometimes 38" super swampers tsl sx's..which are bias.. with the newer 38s I don't get it..
But with my older 3-4 yrs 36s I do..they never seem to round out.
They have been fine for a long time.I daily drove with them for 2-3 years..without a problem..Until I deployed for about 124 days.
When I came back and left base it was horrible I couldn't just drive in between 30-40 at all with out being shook all over the road..
After I replaced everything on the Dana 60 except shocks, and it still did it. talked my self into getting what I now drive. My '72.
It did stop for awhile when I rotated them but then came back about 4 months later..
Now its just for Mud racing and off road events..
The weird part is I have seen this on stock pickups with regular size tires.. IF ANYONE HAS AN ANSWER PLEASE HELP US OUT..
I would love to drive mine around town.. It makes people nervous

Cheapest trick to try would be borrow a buddies set of radial tires, different from yours..
I did that with a set of 17" bfg's and didn't have it..But he wanted his tires and rims back before I hit any mud

Here is a picture

blaz72 · 11-15-2003, 12:05 AM

Dana 60, 2 in susp lift,good frame and steering parts,more notisable with big tires when just driving Am running winter tires 265/75/16 MT does not do it with this size unless hitting brkes, maby brakes are just setting D/W in off.Have heard the springs under top kingpin cap can brake or get weak and people use washer trick and no more problems have to check it out.Getting to be a pain in the a$$ to stop fast when you have to cant let anyone barrow the truck they might kill them selfs.

drink2mny · 11-15-2003, 12:37 AM

What is the washer trick and how do you do it??

i would try anything at this point
I hate not terrorizing the neighborhood

72beast · 11-15-2003, 01:07 AM

I just bough a king pin rebuild kit for $90.00 shipped...
Replace the springs and teflon pad/washer before you junk the king pin...they take about 650lbs to get off, so replace the parts before you get to f'ing them up...
Another thing to look at is your knuckles should have an 8*deg back angle on them to keep the king pin loaded with the proper amount of tension...

Scrub · 11-16-2003, 01:56 PM

The Dana60 is famous for it. I had a 2000 Ford f-350 dually that did it (slightly) with only 18k miles.

My 87 dually (duallys seem to be the worst) did it terrible when I hooked up a trailer. I replaced the shocks but that was no help. I then put a stock stablizer on it and it stopped.
The problem is in the way chevy set up the steering. The Steering arm is too short and when the axle goes up and down, the wheels turn back and forth (bump steering) Good shocks will help keep the axle from bouncing. A good stablizer will keep the axle from wacking back and forth.

When I was messing with mine, I played with a bunch of stabilizers. Some where actual "Stablizers" and some where usable as both a Shock and a stabilizer (It's a floor polish, no it's a cake topping) I noticed that the combo ones didn't seem to be as tight. By pulling the shaft out and them pusing it back in many times, I could get them into a spot where they had no resistance for about a inch both ways. Well that inch is all it takes to do the dance of death. Those were Ranchos I think. I bought a Chevy one (It was black anyway) and I couldn't make it get loose. Mine still wants to dance, and I can feel it try once in a while, but hasn't done the full boogy yet. I was thinking about running 2 of the stock stabilizers. better yet, Crossover steering.

Double shocks would have to help, even if you only put them on the driver side.

Good luck to y'all

Scrub · 11-16-2003, 02:02 PM

hey drink2mny,

I looked at your pic. How much lift do you have? did you get the drop pitman arm or put a block on the axle. Your problem may just be too much angle in the steering link arm. I know that makes the problem worse.

drink2mny · 11-16-2003, 08:08 PM

Well my lift is kinda funny..the suspension lift is about 6-6 1/2" with a 2" body..
I have crossover steering from Blackbird's Custom Trucks.
I checked out my steering stabilizer and found it does have that little spot where some potential play could exsist..
But I got a new set of springs to go over the cones.. Gonna see what they do first.. Then I will probably try the washer deal..
Couldn't hurt and makes sense..

What do you guys run for stabilizers..
here is a front shot of my blazer

Scrub · 11-16-2003, 10:55 PM

That one spot of play might be the killer. I am such a cheap bastard that I anguished over replacing my stabilizer. It looked brand new and seemed to work most of the time, but I could work back and forth on it and get it to that sweet spot where it had no resistance. I also noticed that it leaked all over the floor of my truck after I took it off. I think it had lost just enough oil to be toast. The brand new ranchos had the same problem, a sweet spot. That was on the rancho that were both shock and/or stabilizers. I never tried the straight stabilizer type.

Good Luck.

Nice website

jeffspower · 11-19-2003, 12:46 AM

I have an '88 V-30 dually with the stock size 235/85/16 radials. This truck wouldn't do the death wobble even if you tried to make it do it. A customer has basically the same truck, except it is an '80. His truck will do it REAL BAD just driving on the hyway. The smallest crack in the road can set it off. It has to scare the crap out of oncoming traffic. I have parked both our trucks side by side & compared every detail, both check out the same except my steering box was tighter. Caster appears identical. My spring hangers are a lot sloppier when you crank the wheels side to side (rivets not holding good), yet mine has no problems. I replaced his gearbox with a rebuilt, no improvement except for less slop. I even tried my wheels & tires- little change. His stabilizer feels great with no "dead spot."

I'm convinced I could install my whole friggn' front axle on his truck & it would still do it.

NAPCO ken · 11-19-2003, 01:38 PM

It's gotta be the springs in the kingpins. Either replace them or shim them with a large flat washer to make them tighter. I bet that solves your DW problems.

BLACK AND BLUE 67-72 · 11-19-2003, 08:52 PM

Hey drink2mny, your problem only happens after it sets right? I would say that it is causing flat spots on your tires from where it was setting, that is the samething that happens to our firetrucks when they have set for a while.

You could do an experiment and either take off your tires or put it up on jackstands if you are not going to use it for sometime.

Scrub · 11-19-2003, 09:30 PM

jeffspower,

I would be real interested to see what happened if you switched stablizers and shocks.

On My truck, I jacked it up to look for any play in the kingpins. I couldn't get ANY movement and it still did the watusii.

FYI
Out here we have "Les Schwab Tire Centers" and the sell a special tire for Dana60 front axles. The tire has tread ribs on both outer edges that have no traction patterns, just plain, smooth rubber about 1.5 inches wide, to help prevent the cupping and abnormal wear that a Dana60 causes.

drink2mny · 11-19-2003, 09:45 PM

Yeah BLACK AND BLUE 67-72, I don't have a problem with that now,I mean I can put it up on jackstands..
But out at Base I couldn't they would consider it working on it.. even though I would be on a trip..One guy tried that before and didn't go over too well With Security Forces..
They have silly rules for some things..

But oh well..
This weekend I plan on trying the new springs and washer trick after I get my 208 back up in it..(check other Thread)

jeffspower · 11-20-2003, 01:48 AM

I'll try some of these fixes & see what happens. Hopefully they can leave the truck here a few days next month, it is on the road alot now hauling grain & hogs.

Thanks for the input

11-13-2003, 09:51 PM	#1
blaz72 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: connecticut Posts: 21	Death wobble anyone have it The D/W, in my 78 1 ton 4x4, has been around for ever and is getting old, only when using brakes and i no it is not a brake problem have replaced lots of front end parts over the years and just cant pin point it.Have not tried washer trick yet,and not running very big tires.Wont do it in rain or snow, but one rear brake does lock up.And some times D/W wont happen for days.ANY info would help.

11-14-2003, 02:31 AM	#2
LeRoy Registered truck nut Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Mt. Vernon, Washington, USA Posts: 1,584	What tires are you running. OLD, bias ply, ect. __________________ MOUNT VERNON, WASH. STATE Need a part? Just PM me

11-14-2003, 10:18 AM	#4
ozarkhippie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Eureka Springs AR Posts: 494	I would asume it has a Dana 60 front. Have you checked to see if the king pin bushings are worn out letting the hub wobble on the kingpins. __________________ Buy Sale or Trade 71 3/4 4x4 72 1/2 ton cheyenne 4x4

11-14-2003, 09:33 PM	#5
drink2mny Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: spokane wa Posts: 2,189	I have it in my '86 Blazer It has 1 ton running gear, 60 up front.14ff out back.. I have replaced everything on the front endkingpind the cones that go over them. everything.. except shocks.I run a dual stabilizer with 3 months worth of use. I have a steering box frame brace and it has the plate also.. I run 36" and sometimes 38" super swampers tsl sx's..which are bias.. with the newer 38s I don't get it.. But with my older 3-4 yrs 36s I do..they never seem to round out. They have been fine for a long time.I daily drove with them for 2-3 years..without a problem..Until I deployed for about 124 days. When I came back and left base it was horrible I couldn't just drive in between 30-40 at all with out being shook all over the road.. After I replaced everything on the Dana 60 except shocks, and it still did it. talked my self into getting what I now drive. My '72. It did stop for awhile when I rotated them but then came back about 4 months later.. Now its just for Mud racing and off road events.. The weird part is I have seen this on stock pickups with regular size tires.. IF ANYONE HAS AN ANSWER PLEASE HELP US OUT.. I would love to drive mine around town.. It makes people nervous Cheapest trick to try would be borrow a buddies set of radial tires, different from yours.. I did that with a set of 17" bfg's and didn't have it..But he wanted his tires and rims back before I hit any mud Here is a picture __________________ Support The Board

11-15-2003, 12:37 AM	#7
drink2mny Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: spokane wa Posts: 2,189	What is the washer trick and how do you do it?? i would try anything at this point I hate not terrorizing the neighborhood __________________ Support The Board

11-14-2003, 04:49 AM	#3
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	Steering stablizer? Cracked frame around the box?

11-15-2003, 12:05 AM	#6
blaz72 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: connecticut Posts: 21	Dana 60, 2 in susp lift,good frame and steering parts,more notisable with big tires when just driving Am running winter tires 265/75/16 MT does not do it with this size unless hitting brkes, maby brakes are just setting D/W in off.Have heard the springs under top kingpin cap can brake or get weak and people use washer trick and no more problems have to check it out.Getting to be a pain in the a$$ to stop fast when you have to cant let anyone barrow the truck they might kill them selfs.

11-15-2003, 01:07 AM	#8
72beast TONYP Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: So Cal Posts: 100	I just bough a king pin rebuild kit for $90.00 shipped... Replace the springs and teflon pad/washer before you junk the king pin...they take about 650lbs to get off, so replace the parts before you get to f'ing them up... Another thing to look at is your knuckles should have an 8*deg back angle on them to keep the king pin loaded with the proper amount of tension... __________________ 72 K/5 350/205 SOFT-TOP DOUG THORLEY HEADERS A/C CUSTOM REAR BUMPER http://www.socalbigdawgs.com/tr/7.18.03/DSC04290.JPG

11-16-2003, 01:56 PM	#9
Scrub Collector of rusty Items Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sisters,Oregon USA Posts: 731	The Dana60 is famous for it. I had a 2000 Ford f-350 dually that did it (slightly) with only 18k miles. My 87 dually (duallys seem to be the worst) did it terrible when I hooked up a trailer. I replaced the shocks but that was no help. I then put a stock stablizer on it and it stopped. The problem is in the way chevy set up the steering. The Steering arm is too short and when the axle goes up and down, the wheels turn back and forth (bump steering) Good shocks will help keep the axle from bouncing. A good stablizer will keep the axle from wacking back and forth. When I was messing with mine, I played with a bunch of stabilizers. Some where actual "Stablizers" and some where usable as both a Shock and a stabilizer (It's a floor polish, no it's a cake topping) I noticed that the combo ones didn't seem to be as tight. By pulling the shaft out and them pusing it back in many times, I could get them into a spot where they had no resistance for about a inch both ways. Well that inch is all it takes to do the dance of death. Those were Ranchos I think. I bought a Chevy one (It was black anyway) and I couldn't make it get loose. Mine still wants to dance, and I can feel it try once in a while, but hasn't done the full boogy yet. I was thinking about running 2 of the stock stabilizers. better yet, Crossover steering. Double shocks would have to help, even if you only put them on the driver side. Good luck to y'all __________________ Scrub Sisters, Oregon - Home of the Sisters Rodeo. 70 GMC 1,000,000 + miles 72 K-20 project, 456 Dana60 front, Corp14 rear w/locker, 265R19.5 tires 20-ply. Warn 12k winches both ends, Cross-over steering with raised tie-rod, Powerbox steering, 4500 watt 120-AC power, Air, Hydraulic aux power, 4 inch lift, 5000 lb air-bags both ends.

11-16-2003, 02:02 PM	#10
Scrub Collector of rusty Items Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sisters,Oregon USA Posts: 731	hey drink2mny, I looked at your pic. How much lift do you have? did you get the drop pitman arm or put a block on the axle. Your problem may just be too much angle in the steering link arm. I know that makes the problem worse. __________________ Scrub Sisters, Oregon - Home of the Sisters Rodeo. 70 GMC 1,000,000 + miles 72 K-20 project, 456 Dana60 front, Corp14 rear w/locker, 265R19.5 tires 20-ply. Warn 12k winches both ends, Cross-over steering with raised tie-rod, Powerbox steering, 4500 watt 120-AC power, Air, Hydraulic aux power, 4 inch lift, 5000 lb air-bags both ends.

11-16-2003, 08:08 PM	#11
drink2mny Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: spokane wa Posts: 2,189	Well my lift is kinda funny..the suspension lift is about 6-6 1/2" with a 2" body.. I have crossover steering from Blackbird's Custom Trucks. I checked out my steering stabilizer and found it does have that little spot where some potential play could exsist.. But I got a new set of springs to go over the cones.. Gonna see what they do first.. Then I will probably try the washer deal.. Couldn't hurt and makes sense.. What do you guys run for stabilizers.. here is a front shot of my blazer __________________ Support The Board

11-16-2003, 10:55 PM	#12
Scrub Collector of rusty Items Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sisters,Oregon USA Posts: 731	That one spot of play might be the killer. I am such a cheap bastard that I anguished over replacing my stabilizer. It looked brand new and seemed to work most of the time, but I could work back and forth on it and get it to that sweet spot where it had no resistance. I also noticed that it leaked all over the floor of my truck after I took it off. I think it had lost just enough oil to be toast. The brand new ranchos had the same problem, a sweet spot. That was on the rancho that were both shock and/or stabilizers. I never tried the straight stabilizer type. Good Luck. Nice website __________________ Scrub Sisters, Oregon - Home of the Sisters Rodeo. 70 GMC 1,000,000 + miles 72 K-20 project, 456 Dana60 front, Corp14 rear w/locker, 265R19.5 tires 20-ply. Warn 12k winches both ends, Cross-over steering with raised tie-rod, Powerbox steering, 4500 watt 120-AC power, Air, Hydraulic aux power, 4 inch lift, 5000 lb air-bags both ends.

11-19-2003, 12:46 AM	#13
jeffspower Well, Whoop-dee-do! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Easton, Mo. pop.- me & scarcely a few others Posts: 2,302	I have an '88 V-30 dually with the stock size 235/85/16 radials. This truck wouldn't do the death wobble even if you tried to make it do it. A customer has basically the same truck, except it is an '80. His truck will do it REAL BAD just driving on the hyway. The smallest crack in the road can set it off. It has to scare the crap out of oncoming traffic. I have parked both our trucks side by side & compared every detail, both check out the same except my steering box was tighter. Caster appears identical. My spring hangers are a lot sloppier when you crank the wheels side to side (rivets not holding good), yet mine has no problems. I replaced his gearbox with a rebuilt, no improvement except for less slop. I even tried my wheels & tires- little change. His stabilizer feels great with no "dead spot." I'm convinced I could install my whole friggn' front axle on his truck & it would still do it.

11-19-2003, 01:38 PM	#14
NAPCO ken Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: anaheim, ca Posts: 187	It's gotta be the springs in the kingpins. Either replace them or shim them with a large flat washer to make them tighter. I bet that solves your DW problems. __________________ ken '58 Chev NAPCO 4x4 short '60 GMC Suburban 4x4, restored '60 GMC 3/4T stepside 4x4 '64 GMC Suburban 4x4, restored '90 Chev Suburban 4x4, dually, ZZ502 '77 GMC Suburban 4x4, one ton axles, 12" lift, 39.5"s '88 Chevy crewcab dually 4x4, 10" lift, 42"s (x6!) '03 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon '79 Chev 3/4 Suburban 4x4, 400-400-203

11-19-2003, 08:52 PM	#15
BLACK AND BLUE 67-72 Firefighter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Yellville, Ar, USA Posts: 1,943	Hey drink2mny, your problem only happens after it sets right? I would say that it is causing flat spots on your tires from where it was setting, that is the samething that happens to our firetrucks when they have set for a while. You could do an experiment and either take off your tires or put it up on jackstands if you are not going to use it for sometime. __________________ '72 Chevy SWB 350 Auto '67 GMC LWB 350 4 speed '70 Chevy 4x4 Stepside 350 Auto Yellville, Ar. USA



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11-19-2003, 09:30 PM	#16
Scrub Collector of rusty Items Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sisters,Oregon USA Posts: 731	jeffspower, I would be real interested to see what happened if you switched stablizers and shocks. On My truck, I jacked it up to look for any play in the kingpins. I couldn't get ANY movement and it still did the watusii. FYI Out here we have "Les Schwab Tire Centers" and the sell a special tire for Dana60 front axles. The tire has tread ribs on both outer edges that have no traction patterns, just plain, smooth rubber about 1.5 inches wide, to help prevent the cupping and abnormal wear that a Dana60 causes. __________________ Scrub Sisters, Oregon - Home of the Sisters Rodeo. 70 GMC 1,000,000 + miles 72 K-20 project, 456 Dana60 front, Corp14 rear w/locker, 265R19.5 tires 20-ply. Warn 12k winches both ends, Cross-over steering with raised tie-rod, Powerbox steering, 4500 watt 120-AC power, Air, Hydraulic aux power, 4 inch lift, 5000 lb air-bags both ends. Last edited by Scrub; 11-19-2003 at 09:34 PM.

11-19-2003, 09:45 PM	#17
drink2mny Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: spokane wa Posts: 2,189	Yeah BLACK AND BLUE 67-72, I don't have a problem with that now,I mean I can put it up on jackstands.. But out at Base I couldn't they would consider it working on it.. even though I would be on a trip..One guy tried that before and didn't go over too well With Security Forces.. They have silly rules for some things.. But oh well.. This weekend I plan on trying the new springs and washer trick after I get my 208 back up in it..(check other Thread) __________________ Support The Board

11-20-2003, 01:48 AM	#18
jeffspower Well, Whoop-dee-do! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Easton, Mo. pop.- me & scarcely a few others Posts: 2,302	I'll try some of these fixes & see what happens. Hopefully they can leave the truck here a few days next month, it is on the road alot now hauling grain & hogs. Thanks for the input

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