Removing surface rust from 1971 C10 truck bed

[trevarthan]

Have grinder. It's one of these 4-1/2-Inch Dewalt things: Amazon.com: DEWALT D28402K 4-1/2-Inch Small-Angle...
Drain holes in the bed of the truck were clogged when I bought it a couple of days ago. Lots of surface rust. I want to grind it down and put something serviceable (not pretty) on the bed to prevent further rust. What sort of grinding implement should I use on the bed and what should I seal it with?

[70blackfish]

if you can get it sand blasted, or use a grinder with a wire wheel, seal with POR-15.

then again if you use pod-15 don't sand anything paint over it...look into it.

[trevarthan]

That stuff isn't cheap. $155 a gallon, plus prep supplies. Or apply it directly to the rusty bed? Sort of confusing. I'm guessing this is how people do those rusty clear coat jobs on old cars. Clear coat with por-15, then top coat with clear for uv protection. This definitely gives me a lot of options. I could keep it ugly, or put in more effort and make it pretty.

[tim21391]

I wouldn't use your grinder you posted it will eat the metal and mar it... Go wire wheel attachment on grinder for sure and por-15 is way to go... I have a 67 mustang with factory floors.. And it only had surface rust on driver pan.. Wire wheeled it four years ago and por-15 and it still looks brand new it chemically reacts.. Stops rust in it's tracks and won't spread and do anything nasty

[RManson]

Check out Eastwood. They have a number of solutions that won't break the bank.

I've used both their Rust Converter and Rust Encapsulator for exactly what you describe, followed by a few coats of their Extreme Chassis Black with great results.

Don't take a grinding disc to it unless you want a mess. You want to remove or convert the rust without effecting the surrounding sheetmetal if at all possible. That's hard to do with a grinding disc. If you have to, do what 70blackfish mentioned and use a wire wheel or flap disc to remove the offending corrosion.

Good luck.

[trevarthan]

This is the wire wheel I intend to use with the grinder I posted: http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW4910-8-Inch-11-Knot...

[trevarthan]

Here is the bed (everyone loves photos, right?):


And here's the front:


I want to stop the rust on the bed for now, and fix some minor mechanical issues. Since this is a 1971 C10 Custom, eventually, over time, I plan to arrive at this:


More here: http://www.pinterest.com/createthisc...vy-c10-custom/

I know the light blue and white paint job isn't factory original on this truck (I think it only came on the 350, and this is a 250), but I doubt I care. It's very attractive, and it's in the spirit of the truck, IMO.

So I'm trying to figure out the order of operations I'll use. I work from home, so I don't really need a DD, but I still need a truck for pickup related activities now and then.

Currently I'm trying to decide if I want to pay twice for the gaskets and seals. Thinking about replacing them to stop water ingress into the cab and door cavities, then replace them again after sheet metal holes have been patched with fresh steel and painted.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by trevarthan

This is the wire wheel I intend to use with the grinder I posted: http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW4910-.../dp/B00004RHAL

Thats the way to go. With the rust encapsulator/converter paints, you just need to remove the loose stuff and any oil/grease/dirt before coating the steel. There are several versions out there, but they all do basically the same thing. It won't be a great finish but it will stop the rust.

[trevarthan]

A couple of my friends have suggested just dumping some phosphoric acid back there and then putting some regular automotive paint on it. Which is better?

[68c10airstream]

Hi trevarthan, if that truck was mine i would use a pressure washer with a sandblasting attachment. The sand blast kit is about $110.00 and they are offered in 3 different sizes to match the pressure washer output. I would suggest sand instead of broken glass product called blackjack. The sand will leave the surface a little smother but it doesn't cut quite as fast. Blackjack cuts through major scale like you wouldn't believe. All you need for personal protection is good goggles, no respirator needed because of no dust. Lay down plastic and re-use the sand when dry. Watercannon.com is where i bought my attachment. I choked down on the clear sand hose with needle nose vise grips. Restricted it at least 50%, otherwise it's a sand hog. The beauty of this system is quick removal, absolutely NO WARPING because the water cools the surface and prevents warping. The downside is the bare metal will get a rust film right away. Just go and get a bottle of metal prep that body men use and follow directions. The minimum pressure washer requirements i think are 2900 psi and 2.5 gallons per minute. My wife helped me moving the sand wand around inside a 5 gallon bucket and refilling the bucket. The hose/wand assembly is about 25 feet long so she is away from the mess. If you do this i would suspect you will need 8-10 bags, you can always return the unused ones, you just don't want to run out half way through. I have done all aspects of rust removal that you can think off, and this is fast and not too dirty. When you dry off just brush the sand off of you. Youtube has videos on water sandblasting. Good luck, Brian Fuller

[trevarthan]

This really isn't a terrible idea. I don't currently own a pressure washer, but I could rent one, or buy a 3100 psi model for about $360. I need to strip the paint from my deck this year too, so buying a pressure washer isn't too much of a stretch. I'd certainly use it a lot as I worked on the truck.

My neighbor's house is maybe 10 feet from the driveway. What precautions would I need to take in order to avoid damaging their paint?

Also, what are the advantages vs a wire cup grinder? You already mentioned heat, which I hadn't considered. Faster? Removes less material?

[72freak]

Fill it with some sand and sweep it around. It worked perfectly for us.

[68c10airstream]

Frame up a basic wall of 2x4's and plastic to be extra careful. Wire cups smooth over the rust pits unless you get real aggressive. Sandblasting really shows what areas you miss because it looks like black specks where rust is still remaining. My first pressure washer was a cheap one, after the first run the engine oil had aluminum specs in it because it didn't have a cast iron bore. The engine was a honda model GC (C= cheap). My next pressure washer has a honda engine model GX (X=extra duty). No problems with this motor, cast iron bore, ball bearing crankshaft, etc. The GX was over twice the cost of the GC, but by quality once and have it the rest of your life. The wire cup will take you days to do a nice job, the blaster an afternoon. Tape a plastic sheet to the back of the cab to preserve the glass, paint etc. Other than set up time, and cost of sand, etc, i think you will be amazed at how well it works. I live in the rust belt and i waterblasted just the housing of my snowblower through major scale and it was completely bare inside and out in 20 minutes! Try that with a wire cup. You can just pressure wash all the grime off of the engine compartment, inner fenders, clean the frame, and if the frame is rusty put on the sand blast attachment and get it done. I think if you look at the cost to hire someone to sandblast and paint the frame, remove the paint from your deck, etc. it wouldn't take long to pay for a good pressure washer and blast attachment.

[trevarthan]

I'm with you on the cost of quality tools. The cheapies are out there to tempt us, but the poor (or cheap) man pays twice. I was considering this machine when I wrote that: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004T6UFDS
But as the evening wore on and I kept researching, this model seems to be the best value: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008970DU8
It has the GX motor as you mentioned, but home depot sells it for about a hundred dollars less with a 5 year motor warranty under the DeWalt brand: http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-42...4240/203185026

I don't know. I'm going to have to think about this. A grand isn't cheap and I'm not sure how often I'd use it. I could buy an 80 gallon air compressor for the same price, not have to deal with flash rust, and have it available for painting and air tools as well.

[In The Ten Ring]

My dad's (now my) 1972's wood bed rotted out. So my dad, being a welder at a coal mine that let its men take scrap metal home, made his own bed out of 1/8" steel. He plug welded it to the frame and it is SEAMLESS. No drain holes in that bad boy!

There are ways around everything!

[CC69Rat]

I'd just leave it like it is. CLR and a good stiff brush would do wonders for it. I'm not even sure I'd (just me personally) go as far as a wire wheel just judging from the picture.

[trevarthan]

What about approaching this from the air compressor and sand blasting end? Would this 14CFM @ 90PSI compressor do the job? http://www.amazon.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-HS5180-5-H...
Also, is there a shorter, wheeled compressor I could buy that could be used for sand blasting and painting? I have 220v in the shop. I have room, technically, for that big one, but I would have to break up some uneven concrete near the 220v outlet and pour a new pad for the beast. I'd prefer a more compact wheeled version so I can move it out of the way when not in use and leave the concrete alone for now.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by trevarthan

A couple of my friends have suggested just dumping some phosphoric acid back there and then putting some regular automotive paint on it. Which is better?

Phosphoric acid will turn the rust black I forget the proper chemical term for it, (EDIT:Phosphoric Acid does not remove rust, however the use of phosphoric acid on rust converts the iron oxide to iron phosphate)

But if you have a lot of open space, a respirator made for acid fumes and no chance of kids or animals encroaching on your work then you could consider Muratic acid but be forewarned this stuff is nasty!

Read this post in what it did for my seat tracks.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...&postcount=138

[68c10airstream]

If you want a wheeled version, i don't think i have ever seen a heavy duty one yet. It would have to be 220 volt on about a 30 amp breaker. Twin cylinders in a "V" pattern are best as the first cylinder starts the compressing, and sends it to the second cylinder to finish it. Usually they will have a loop of finned piping around the flywheel area for cooling purposes. This style is called 2 stage, and is the best at cfm capacity. I like to see about 15-17 cfm at about 90 psi, if i remember correctly. Magnetic starter switch is a must for longevity. Usually smaller compressors spin very fast to get cfm output, but have a substantial shorter life. When i bought my ingersal rand t30 compressor 20 years ago i talked with a knowledgeable counterman and he told me that if you want a long lasting compressor, the pump rpm's should be under 1,000 rpms. You could talk a horizontal 50 gallon compressor and ad wheels but it would be heavy. It's doable, and if you want to persue this i had wanted to do this 20 plus years ago. I would take space saver spare wheels (never go flat and are tough as nails) and mount them using the rear wheel bearings from a late model front wheel drive american car (more plentiful and cheaper prices), and make your own frame. Use a clothes dryer plug in (socket and plug mated pair, low cost and handle high amps), and a good sjo spec cord. Go at least one size larger gauge wire than spec to prevent voltage drop and keep cord length at around 30 feet. You will probably speed alt least $1500-2,000. You would have a portable heavy duty compressor. If you want a longer cord you will need to go 2-3 size larger cord. I suggested sjo cord because it is flexible and oil resistant. Mcmaster Carr has great products, they vend to pro's so it's good stuff. Good luck, Brian Fuller Ps, i made my oxy/acetylene cart this winter using space saver spare tire/wheel assy's and it can run over anything i leave laying around in the shop.

[MAC71]

Sand blast is the way to go. If you use a wire wheel you will not really clean the metal because the wire will cause the metal to fold back on its self trapping rust. It may hold up for 4 or 5 years but the rust will come out.

[northern]

The chemical term is Etch. I am looking to do the same operation on my sons bedfloor and then use some kind of DIY bedliner.

[trevarthan]

The CFM requirements for sand blasting and painting seem to be vastly different, based on my research. It looks like you only need a constant 5-6 CFM for painting, but you need 18-20cfm @ 90psi for sand blasting. This guy has a very interesting video where he talks about his work sand blasting a car chassis: http://youtu.be/9BjD4EwUKBU (He also has a few enlightening videos about using vinegar and molasses for rust removal: http://youtu.be/vq5IUiYMhRM ). He used two small compressors in parallel (I thought this was pretty clever), totaling 18 CFM, and he said it wasn't really good enough. He seemed pretty unhappy with the whole experience.

Can someone post a link to a compressor that is known to work well for sand blasting large surfaces, like truck cabs and frames and such? I'm just trying to get pricing information so I can make decisions.

[trevarthan]

Maybe one of these Quincy 271CS80VCB 7.5hp models would do the job: http://www.amazon.com/Quincy-Compressor-Reciprocat...
Not thrilled about the price at $2500, but I've got a few other machines in that price range, so I should be used to it. Seems like $1000 is the new $100 these days. Sigh.

Someone talks about it on this page, in relation to sand blasting: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330332 and says "Define "huge". CFM? HP? We have a Quincy 261CS80HC, 7.5HP 80 gallon tank, 23.2CFM@ 100CFM, 22.4@ 175CFM. Quite small in comparison to others. It has no problem keeping up with a commercial pressure pot. Is it large enough for a sandblasting shop running all day, 6 days? Of course not."

It seems like 5HP and up is the way to go, and just don't expect commercial grade duty cycles. Take it easy sand blasting, or else rent a diesel screw compressor for a weekend.