'63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can" Build

[63GMCKid]

Just a quick update, I was out of town for a week so I haven't gotten much done on it, and the rain has made all of the previously clean tube get surface rust.... Anyway, did a few minor things, nothing too crazy. I'm hoping I can get the cab on it within the next 2 weeks, we'll see what happens.

I decided to redo my bell housing mount, I really wanted something that would replicate the stock cross member in that it would keep the frame from twisting where the shackles are. I'm not completely done with it yet, still have to add another short piece of tube going from the bottom corner of the frame rail up to the main tube. Also got the tabs for the poly bushings tacked in place, with a strap that will reinforce everything in this area. I will plate both sides in completely to make it look finished, again they are just tacked in place for now. Also have to do a little more grinding on the brackets that bolt to the bell housing to make them look cleaner.



Have about ~3/16''-1/4'' of clearance between the tube and the bell. The tube is 1.75'' by .120'' wall.





And the dust cover does fit with a slight squeeze, and there is about 3/16'' clearance between it and the tube. (It's just loosely attached for the picture)



I cut the rear trans mount cross member apart and welded on some bolt together flanges. And I figured I might as well add a drive shaft safety hoop while I was at it, which will also stiffen up that cross member. All of the tube is 1.75'' by .120'' wall. This will get another tube aimed down and forward at the trans for the rear trans mount.


Also note the cool bracket I cut out on the PlasmaCAM for the rear of the SM465, it will have a couple tabs welded to it for a poly bushing.


And again with the rear mount bracket for the SM465


It fits perfectly but looks a little bit funky, I went kind of overboard with the radius between all of the holes because I was thinking that bearing retainer/back cover plate had more meat to it than it actually did, but at least it wont trap dirt in there.



And that's all for now folks, I should have some more updates later on this week.

[63GMCKid]

Progress has been a bit slow lately, got another job so progress may be slow for a while, but should pick back up once I go back to school in the fall. Only thing I managed to get done was cut out plates to box the frame in on both sides behind the motor mount cross member, and got 1 side cut to box the frame from the shackle mounts to just behind the rear cab mounts. Still have to cut some half circles along the edges of the plate so I don't turn the frame into a dirt trap. Only 1 pic for now. Hopefully I can get the other side done soon, get it painted, and set the cab down on the frame for good sometime in the next few weeks. Hopefully I can get my Dana 60 outer parts for my Eaton/60 soon too and get it under the truck.

Plates aren't finished yet, just checking fit up...

[350TacoZilla]

Amazing work man! I had a 305v6 63 gmc stepside 4x4 and always hope to get another one (if I ever do it is going to be 478V6 4spd truck lol). I was wondering if you dont want a lift block in rear why not do a shackle flip like alot or us 73-87 guys do, you could make the rear mount yourself and I think the trucks ride bit better like that.

[jbclassix]

Hey man, seems like a lot of threads on pirate and other 4x4 boards say the tubes can't take the stress as a front. I really hope that's not true! I have a HO52 waiting to become a front once i get to that point. Didn't Napco use Eatons up front?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Captainfab]

I know the 1/2 ton Napco's used the same Eaton HO32 third member, and what appeared to be essentially the same housing as the rear. Of course the center was offset to the pass side. I would imagine the 3/4 tons would have used the Eaton HO52/72 on the front in the same way.

Originally Posted by jbclassix

Hey man, seems like a lot of threads on pirate and other 4x4 boards say the tubes can't take the stress as a front. I really hope that's not true! I have a HO52 waiting to become a front once i get to that point. Didn't Napco use Eatons up front?Posted via Mobile Device

[63GMCKid]

Originally Posted by 350TacoZilla

Amazing work man! I had a 305v6 63 gmc stepside 4x4 and always hope to get another one (if I ever do it is going to be 478V6 4spd truck lol). I was wondering if you dont want a lift block in rear why not do a shackle flip like alot or us 73-87 guys do, you could make the rear mount yourself and I think the trucks ride bit better like that.

Thanks!

I decided against a shackle flip because this truck will be used to tow stuff that I can't with my daily driver (1990 2wd 1500 Suburban), like my tractor or anything else too heavy for my 'Burb. Shackle flips are known to be iffy for towing if not set up right. Not to say that a compression shackle is bad, a lot of the later dodge trucks (like 3rd gen and up I guess?) use a compression shackle, but they are set up for it from the factory, and the angle of the shackle has a lot to do with that too (again, they are set up right from the factory). The problem with towing with a truck that has a shackle flip with a shackle angle that is accepted as correct to the off road crowd (generally something like 30* back) is that the weight of the truck is forcing the shackle to move and flatten the spring, it makes it feel very spongy/flexy, that's why it works good offroad, bad when towing, any extra weight just applies more leverage to the shackle to flatten out the spring. In a tension shackle, the weight of the truck is naturally trying to keep the shackle vertical because its pulling down and forward on the shackle against the spring, so it doesn't get spongy with more weight, making it safer for towing.

Originally Posted by Captainfab

I know the 1/2 ton Napco's used the same Eaton HO32 third member, and what appeared to be essentially the same housing as the rear. Of course the center was offset to the pass side. I would imagine the 3/4 tons would have used the Eaton HO52/72 on the front in the same way.

Originally Posted by jbclassix

Hey man, seems like a lot of threads on pirate and other 4x4 boards say the tubes can't take the stress as a front. I really hope that's not true! I have a HO52 waiting to become a front once i get to that point. Didn't Napco use Eatons up front?
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm curious as to where you saw this on Pirate, do you have a link? I recently posted in a thread there about someone asking about the strength of an original Napco Eaton front axle, but the strength of the tubes was not an issue that was brought up, nor have I seen that mentioned in the Eaton thread on Pirate. I know the Eaton tubes are only 5/16'' wall thickness, but something to keep in mind is that an all steel housing is basically "self trussing" by design. If I were running a Cummins or all iron big block or one of the old V6's in my GMC, I would possibly have a slight concern about bending the housing, but I'm not running any of those so I'm not too worried about it at this point. The previous owner had an all iron big block in it with a 10 bolt front (All stock other than that though, the truck never had anything larger than 31's on it) for many years and I've still got that 10 bolt and its not bent. I may do a simple light weight plate and tube truss if I feel that it's not going to be strong enough.

And yes, the Napco 4x4 conversion trucks of the 50's had a Napco Eaton front axle. I know for the 3/4 tons they used the HO52/72 diff, with closed knuckles and Rzeppa joints (Similar to a Birfield/CV) and they had the diff on the passenger side.

EDIT: I've seen it mentioned on Pirate that 14BFF tubes are weak and bend easily and more so in a front application, but never seen any mention of that for an Eaton front. There is a guy on Pirate who used a Napco Eaton front axle in his build, did a cut and turn, and a rebuild, and I don't remember reading anything about him being concerned about the tube strength. As far as I know, I'm the only one on Pirate who has built an Eaton front using as much of the original tubes as possible, the other guy that is building an Eaton/60 front used D60 tubes welded to just the center section of the Eaton housing, and I don't believe he is finished yet. Really we are in uncharted territory with the Eaton front axles because the Napco front axles are so rare and myself and 1 other guy so far are the only ones I know of to build an Eaton/60, so it's really more of an experiment at this stage, it's not proven like a 14b front which has been done hundreds of times before. If you are planning on building one, I would dive right into it, go at it however you think it should be done. There is no right way or wrong way at this stage, my Eaton front is built in a much different way than the other one on Pirate, either way is good if care is taken to make everything turns out right without cutting corners. I just did what worked best for me with the tools (and budget) I had available.

[duallyjams]

Everything looking good.

[jbclassix]

I can't find the post on pirate again... if I do I will copy it to you. I don't care either way... I want to build an Eaton front for my Suburban.

[63GMCKid]

It's been a few months since I have even looked at this thread, I'll be getting the ball rolling on this truck again soon. Just received some caliper brackets and spindles for the Eaton/60 from the brown truck, school is starting up again and work has given me some extra funds, which means more cool parts coming soon!


This thing is what has been taking up most of my time lately, can't have too many toys as they say, an '01 Raptor 660, with some stuff done to it. To be honest, I got a bit burned out on this GMC project and needed a break with something new, a quad seemed to be the obvious choice, it's a blast.

[y5mgisi]

I wanna move to AZ.

[Auctioneerhere]

Very Impressed...! What a build!

[63GMCKid]

Well with the spring warm up comes more work, more money, and more progress on the projects. This damn quad has still been sucking up most of my project money lately with a complete tear down, a "reliability rebuild" for the engine, and fresh powder coat and matte blue plastics. Otherwise known as the money pit, just a cool picture of it from the last time I rode my Raptor 660 before tearing it down a couple weeks ago. Now on to the good stuff, the GMC.



Once again, I'll try not to say too much, and let the pictures do the talking.

So I finally put the cab back on the frame. Haven't welded in the plates to box in the frame yet, but I needed to get the cab out of the way, and now would be a great time to put it on the frame. Gave me motivation to continue with it, I got rather burned out, the quad helped with that some, but nothing helps more with motivation for a burned out project than just doing something with it. Ignore the duct tape on the windshield, the windshield is not actually in place, its just sitting there, the duct tape is to keep it from falling off when I move it. Looks much better with the cab on the frame now with the 52's in the front to level it out and the 3/4 ton 56's out back. Sits level, shackle angle is pretty good, should be perfect once it has more weight on it.



Tons of room behind the engine to get a ratchet on the bell housing bolts, sticking to the ease of maintenance theme here.



Now I know this next picture is going to make a lot of you guys cringe, but it had to be done.... hacked up the perfect floor just to have a flat bottom frame. Divorced 205 in place, fits pretty good, but I have to redo my e-brake caliper bracket, caliper does not clear the rear structural member of the cab, and I would rather not hack that up. (e-brake caliper bracket removed in these pictures, had to take it off to get the 205 in)



Beef, it's whats for dinner. Beefy 1410 bolt on high angle flange yoke that I made with some 1410 parts from a set of half shafts of unknown origin that I acquired for free from a friend and a bit of 1/2'' steel. Puts that low angle cast 1350 bolt on yoke to shame.



1410 slip yoke assembly on the left, notice the width difference of the yoke compared to the 1350 on the right. That cast 1350 bolt yoke will probably find its way to the front drive shaft if I buy another flange from WFO.



And the big haul for the winter, scored a 42'' x 96'' x 3/8'' thick piece of 2024 aluminum, which has all the strength of 7075, but slightly cheaper due to being less corrosion resistant, for cheap. Traded a 14bff housing for it, not a bad deal right? Will be made into a full skid plate, from oil pan to transfer case and then some.


One more good score for this update, picked up a pair of Eaton HO72's for $100, one is out of a '68 Chevy 3/4 ton with 4.10's, and the other is out of a '54 Chevy 3/4 ton with 4.56's, both have the taper roller pinion bearing, unknown condition on the inside currently, but for $100 I couldn't pass them up.


And that's all for now folks! Once I finish up with a couple other small projects, it's back to working on this one as much as possible, so stay tuned!

[jbclassix]

Sticking around for the eaton front axle build still.
Posted via Mobile Device

[63GMCKid]

Originally Posted by jbclassix

Sticking around for the eaton front axle build still.
Posted via Mobile Device

Well just so it's on the current page for everyone to drool at , here is a refresher pic. All I need for it now is hubs to get it rolling, then I can weld on the spring perches and sling it under the truck. Just waiting for a good deal on hubs... There are 2 more front Eatons on Pirate now, one using a fabricated aftermarket housing with the Eaton 3rd, and another that was built using pretty much the same method as mine (turn down tubes for inner c adapters/extensions, etc.). I believe the one built in a similar fashion as mine is almost done on Pirate, check the Eaton thread in the Chevy section there for more details on it.

[jbclassix]

Yeah, that's the one thread on pIrate that I subscribe to. I am post as jwbennett there. I try not to comment there mostly because of the juvenile bickering that is so common. I have big plans for the Eaton I have for my Suburban.

Hey man, I started a thread on here a while ago that I think you could be a major contributor to. I haven't posted too much info as of yet, but here is a LINK

[63GMCKid]

I'll just leave this here.... The pictures of the Eaton60 can do the talking.

[MrBeast]

Cool build man I am subscribed.

Some great fab work there.

[jbclassix]

Hey man, any updates on the Eaton60?

[63GMCKid]

Nothing new lately other than I built a massive axle straightening/building stand out of a 14'' tall I-beam. The weather has been great here, which means I've been working on my quad to get it going again for summer riding, takes up most of the time I have off from work. Hopefully soon I'll have it under the truck.

[63GMCKid]

I just sold the cab, front clip, and frame for this truck, so the rest is being parted out. The front Eaton/60, rear Eaton HO72, and the NP205 transfer case are all for sale, along with other misc. parts from this truck. Please PM me if you are interested.

The build is over with folks, sorry to disappoint. Maybe if these axles sell to someone on here they will be put to good use.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by 63GMCKid

I just sold the cab, front clip, and frame for this truck, so the rest is being parted out. The front Eaton/60, rear Eaton HO72, and the NP205 transfer case are all for sale, along with other misc. parts from this truck. Please PM me if you are interested.

The build is over with folks, sorry to disappoint. Maybe if these axles sell to someone on here they will be put to good use.

PM Sent.

[TJ's Chevy]

Nice work on the truck! Just ran across the build.

[McMurphy]

I dont suppose that what is going on in your avatar pic happens to be the reason you are selling this off?

None the less, I am sorry to hear of you letting it go, you were doing some awesome work on it !!!!

[63GMCKid]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

PM Sent.

Replied.

Originally Posted by T.J. MCCAULEY

Nice work on the truck! Just ran across the build.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by McMurphy

I dont suppose that what is going on in your avatar pic happens to be the reason you are selling this off?

None the less, I am sorry to hear of you letting it go, you were doing some awesome work on it !!!!

That picture was from the big forest fire we had here a couple years ago. The building that truck was parked next to during the fire burned down and the wall collapsed and fell over on it. Not my truck though, a friend of mine took that picture.

And thanks. Just to clear it up for everyone, there was a thread over on Pirate4x4 called something like "If you could start all over, what would you do differently". It opened my eyes big time, most of the replies were guys saying they should have just built a buggy in the first place, or left their truck alone, or not built it up so hardcore.

After reading through that thread, I went outside and had a good long look at the truck, and thought "What the hell am I going to do with this thing when I'm finished with it?". What it really came down to is the fact that there isn't really much for decent four wheeling that is local to me, and it was just the wrong truck to do this sort of thing to. I thought if I laid it on its side on a trail and happened to break a windshield, its going to be expensive and difficult to replace, not to mention ruining good cab and front clip. It's too tall and flexy to be a good tow rig, and really not enough power either. I turned it into an impractical truck, and that's what caused me to lose interest.

Once I got myself an ATV and started riding trails and going to the track, I realized how easy it is to have fun locally with these smaller toys. Most of my friends ride dirtbikes or ATV's or those RZR's, and there are tons of places to enjoy them just a few minutes from home. Not to mention they are quite a bit cheaper than an all out wheelin truck. I would have loved to finish it, but it's just not in the cards anymore.

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by 63GMCKid

Alright no real particular order here, just some pics to hold your interest!

First up, frame with front leaf spring crossmember. 2.5''x.25'' square tube with 3/8'' plate tabs for the leafs. 2'' and 3'' forward holes. Options are important, I like things to be tunable. Also in the picture is the engine mount crossmember. Excuse the mess of leafs, the cottonwoods in the yard are huge and next to impossible to clean up after.



[IMG]http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll290/ChrisKrawlin/Truck/DSCN1940.jpg[/IM

Motor mount crossmember, excuse the rust, I finished this part a while back and it's been outside installed for mock up. Uses poly bushings, simple to install (it's self aligning with the bolt holes really, since the plates welded to the frame are angled away from each other at the bottom and towards each other at the front), rather than have individual nuts going through, there is another plate behind the ones welded to the frame with nuts welded on, so no trying to hold a wrench back in there, no fiddling with individual nuts, etc.



Of course, gotta have the weld porn...



Here is the rear Eaton HO72, not much to say here, has disc brakes, its painted to look cool (Flat black and Chevy orange), has a factory No-Spin locker and 4.56 cogs inside.

These Eaton HO72/HO52 axles are the best kept secret on 4 wheeling IMO. They are considerably lighter than a 14bff and lighter still with disc brakes, higher ground clearance than a 14bff, all steel housing for welding trusses and link tabs to, ring gear load bolt, MASSIVE pinion shaft, no crush sleeve to worry about on the pinion (bearing preload on the taper roller bearing models is set with a simple spacer between the two bearings, can remove the yoke at any time and not worry about measuring the torque of the pinion yoke nut), axle shafts with no neck down - they are hoss from flange to splines, factory lockers aren't too hard to find if you go looking for these axles, still pretty abundant because alot of the street crowd sells them off due to lack of street friendly ratios. Only down side is bearings are expensive for these. The other positive things more than make up for that. They are a win win over 14bff's in my opinion.








And here is a quick pic of the housing I'm using for the Eaton/60 hybrid front axle, already have the spindles cut off of it. This housing is actually a '58 HO72 housing. The reason it got cut up for front axle use is because I learned the hard way that not all SRW HO72's are the same width. Earlier ones are about 1/2'' narrower per side than later ones, the difference can be seen in the axle shafts. I got later hubs all setup on this older housing with my discs and brackets, went to check to see if everything would fit and the calipers with pads wouldn't fit, the discs were 1/2'' too close to the caliper brackets on both sides. Then I compared an old housing to a later house and the spindles are slightly different in length, causing the problem. The reason they are like this is because the older HO72/52's used a slide on brake drum, and the later ones had a stud retained drum like the 14bff. Just something to keep in mind for you folks out there running the HO72/52 axles and wanting to do disc brakes. If your axle originally had slide on drums, later hubs will not solve the problem, you need special caliper brackets with less bend/spacing to them, or you need a later HO72/52 with stud retained drums. With the later ones though, EVERYTHING used to convert a 14bff to disc brakes bolts right up, only thing major your have to do is drill the hubs for the larger 14bff wheel studs. Anyway, here is the quick pic of just the housing for the front -

for a bookmark, So a 1410 yoke should be easy to source and bolt right on,,
the main drag of all other axles is having to pay an axle guy to set the pinion preload is eliminated with these