Steering Linkage Interference

[CRGRS 66]

I have installed a power steering gear box, and used the captains bracket (which is a beauty btw), purchased a pitman arm that I thought was to suit the new gear box, wondering if I have the wrong one, and if I need to get a different one. I will be in the US of A next weekend so I could easily pick one up at Advance Auto Parts or wherever.

I am only able to turn the wheels a small amount in each direction, the interference is only on the driver side. Turning left the tie rod adjuster comes in contact with the sway bar, turning right the inner tie rod end comes in contact with the frame.

I thought that the pitman arm should have gone further onto the shaft, but a mechanic told me this was normai (this was before I realized I had an interference issue)

Can anyone tell me what pitman arm I need?

[CRGRS 66]

First two pics are with the wheels relatively straight ahead.

[CRGRS 66]

You can see in the next two pics that the wheel is turned only slightly to the right, and the adjuster contacting the sway bar. The third pic shows the pitman arm, and how far it is onto the gear box shaft.

[CRGRS 66]

The next three pics show the wheels turned only slightly to the left, the tie rod end coming in contact with the cross member (not the frame as mentioned above), and the clearance between the adjuster and the sway bar.

The other thing I noticed is how close the... forget what you call it... the shaft that connects to the idler arm and inner tie rod on the passenger side. You could barely get a few sheets of paper in there.

[65 C20]

I just added P/S to my truck a couple of months ago.
I used a Moog K6131 pitman arm with no trouble.
I have a 65 C20 and the sway bar mounts differently than yours.
Like you I don't know all the names of the front end parts, but where the sway bar connects to the lower A arm (I will call it) it has the same type of rubber bushing and clamp as where the sway bar connects to the frame rails. It sits lower than your connection.
As far as how far the pitman arm goes on the steering box shaft I have approx. 5/8" space. The nut that I used was the same nut as the manual box and it was quite a bit thinner than yours.
I am not sure if sway bars are different for 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton or not.
What pitman arm do you have?
Cal.

[PGSigns]

Our trucks don't use a sway bar with the links. They are attached to the lower control arm with a clamp that uses the two holes in your arms. Your bar is a good 3" higher than the stock bars. The other issue almost looks like the steering box is to far back. Do you have the old pitman arm to look at the length compared to the one you have? Or the part number of the new one?
Jimmy

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by CRGRS 66

You can see in the next two pics that the wheel is turned only slightly to the right, and the adjuster contacting the sway bar. The third pic shows the pitman arm, and how far it is onto the gear box shaft.

Shaft from your steering box is too big for eye in your center link(drag link). Else, reverse is true. They must match; and when hole & shaft match, pitman arm goes further up onto the st. box shaft.

You were correct when you noticed pitman arm did not go on far enough. Corrected, it will raise driver's end of center link--and tie rod ends--and should then clear both sway bar(if the bar is correct) and the frame when turning the other way.
Enjoy your project.
sam

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

Our trucks don't use a sway bar with the links. They are attached to the lower control arm with a clamp that uses the two holes in your arms. Your bar is a good 3" higher than the stock bars. The other issue almost looks like the steering box is to far back. Do you have the old pitman arm to look at the length compared to the one you have? Or the part number of the new one?
Jimmy

Here's a pic of "our" sway bars. Not familiar w/yours: it MAY work; I just don't know.
Sam

[CRGRS 66]

Originally Posted by 65 C20

I just added P/S to my truck a couple of months ago.
I used a Moog K6131 pitman arm with no trouble.
I have a 65 C20 and the sway bar mounts differently than yours.
Like you I don't know all the names of the front end parts, but where the sway bar connects to the lower A arm (I will call it) it has the same type of rubber bushing and clamp as where the sway bar connects to the frame rails. It sits lower than your connection.
As far as how far the pitman arm goes on the steering box shaft I have approx. 5/8" space. The nut that I used was the same nut as the manual box and it was quite a bit thinner than yours.
I am not sure if sway bars are different for 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton or not.
What pitman arm do you have?
Cal.

Originally Posted by PGSigns

Our trucks don't use a sway bar with the links. They are attached to the lower control arm with a clamp that uses the two holes in your arms. Your bar is a good 3" higher than the stock bars. The other issue almost looks like the steering box is to far back. Do you have the old pitman arm to look at the length compared to the one you have? Or the part number of the new one?
Jimmy

Originally Posted by luvbowties

Shaft from your steering box is too big for eye in your center link(drag link). Else, reverse is true. They must match; and when hole & shaft match, pitman arm goes further up onto the st. box shaft.

You were correct when you noticed pitman arm did not go on far enough. Corrected, it will raise driver's end of center link--and tie rod ends--and should then clear both sway bar(if the bar is correct) and the frame when turning the other way.
Enjoy your project.
sam

Originally Posted by luvbowties

Here's a pic of "our" sway bars. Not familiar w/yours: it MAY work; I just don't know.
Sam

Thank you everyone.

The sway bar is from CPP (ADDCO unit) ordered specifically for my 66. No clearance issue on the passenger side, which is why I am suspecting that I have the wrong pitman arm. This pitman will not go any further onto the spline shaft.

Any chance someone could send me some rough dimensions on the K6131 pitman arm? I have not been able to find any dimensions on line yet. I may have the K6130 (manual steering unit), and I don't have the old pitman arm either. The nut pictured is a nylock nut from the fastener store... in my infinite wisdom I tossed the original pitman arm as well.

[Hansome]

Having read your post and seen your pictures i have come to the conclusion that.....

1) the sway bar is correct for the year but looks like you've been sent/ordered the rear swaybar mounts/ bolts

2) here is a tech article which would help you
http://www.earlyclassic.com/tech.asp...%20Sway%20Away

3) this will solve your main problem eg being able to turn and steer the wheels

Hope this helps

D

[CRGRS 66]

Originally Posted by Hansome

Having read your post and seen your pictures i have come to the conclusion that.....

1) the sway bar is correct for the year but looks like you've been sent/ordered the rear swaybar mounts/ bolts

2) here is a tech article which would help you
http://www.earlyclassic.com/tech.asp...%20Sway%20Away

3) this will solve your main problem eg being able to turn and steer the wheels

Hope this helps

D

Thanks for posting.
This is the sway bar I bought, and as I mentioned.
http://www.classicperform.com/Store/...ck/6372SBK.htm

There is no clearance issue on the passenger side, but as I mentioned earlier, the drag link is perilously close to the cross member.

[Hansome]

I'm sure that the fitting is incorrect. The ends slip into a bushing which is bolted into the A-arm ( there are 2 holes already there from the factory)
The sway bar should sit snug against the A-arm I don't know why it would be mounted up in the path of the tie-rod.

Clicked on the link and it seems very vague on what that kit is? Front or rear?

Maybe I'm wrong but it's just my 2 pence worth.

D

[65 C20]

The dimensions of the K6131 is 5 1/4" center to center.
I noticed you purchased the adapter from Captain Fab as I also did.
I got mine in Feb./14.
On his instalation template it stated that the dimension should be 5 1/2". When I contacted him about it he stated that he would correct it on future templates. 5 1/4" is correct.
Not sure when you purchased yours but it may have thrown you off on the correct dimension.
Did you not save your reciepts to see which pitman arm you purchased?
Cal.

[markeb01]

It seems to me your first analysis was correct. I think it's the wrong pitman arm. The engagement is so shallow, the far end is hanging the steering linkage low compared to the frame. Here's what mine looks like:



I can't help with part numbers as mine was installed over 20 years ago. I'd be concerned about the Nyloc nut as well, as there can't be enough threads left to engage the locking ring.

[chopper john]

Sway bar and links look way wrong sway bar looks like rear

[Captainfab]

The interference with the sway bar is due to it being a non stock style sway bar. As for the interference with the crossmember, I have not had that issue in the past, so I do not have an immediate answer. I have had just a few customers, out of a few hundred, with the same issue, but no one has let me know what was done to correct the issue. I wish that I had the time to do another PS conversion on one of my trucks, so that I could check into this further myself.

[LostMy65]

do you still have your manual steering box?
Lay it out on the template and notice where the pitman arm lays.
Then do the same with the power box.
If the power pitman arm is lower and/or longer, then that could be the issue.
Here is the original thread for the making of the template:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=438509

[CRGRS 66]

The pitman arm is 5-1/4" center to center, and power steering box is mounted as per the captains template.

I have also looked up pictures of the CPP front sway bar installed, and although it is different than the stock style, it is the correct bar andI am convinced that the sway bar is not the problem. If I remove the sway bar, the inner tie rod still interferes with cross member, see the middle picture in post#4. It seems I either need a short pitman arm, or the same pitman arm, but without the offset.

Unfortunately I don't have the original steering box and pitman arm.

I wonder if the gear box itself is the issue, is the location of the output shaft different from year to year? See where the output shaft is, roughly in the middle of the gear box, should the output shaft be further towards the front of the truck?

Thanks again to everyone for posting your thoughts and suggestions.

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by CRGRS 66

The pitman arm is 5-1/4" center to center, and power steering box is mounted as per the captains template.

I have also looked up pictures of the CPP front sway bar installed, and although it is different than the stock style, it is the correct bar andI am convinced that the sway bar is not the problem. If I remove the sway bar, the inner tie rod still interferes with cross member, see the middle picture in post#4. It seems I either need a short pitman arm, or the same pitman arm, but without the offset.

Unfortunately I don't have the original steering box and pitman arm.

I wonder if the gear box itself is the issue, is the location of the output shaft different from year to year? See where the output shaft is, roughly in the middle of the gear box, should the output shaft be further towards the front of the truck?

Thanks again to everyone for posting your thoughts and suggestions.

Originally Posted by CRGRS 66

The pitman arm is 5-1/4" center to center, and power steering box is mounted as per the captains template.

I have also looked up pictures of the CPP front sway bar installed, and although it is different than the stock style, it is the correct bar andI am convinced that the sway bar is not the problem. If I remove the sway bar, the inner tie rod still interferes with cross member, see the middle picture in post#4. It seems I either need a short pitman arm, or the same pitman arm, but without the offset.

Unfortunately I don't have the original steering box and pitman arm.

I wonder if the gear box itself is the issue, is the location of the output shaft different from year to year? See where the output shaft is, roughly in the middle of the gear box, should the output shaft be further towards the front of the truck?

Thanks again to everyone for posting your thoughts and suggestions.

Gear box looks like "ours", including where shaft exits the box. So does shape of pitman arm, which must be same length eye-to-eye to the length of the idler arm, eye-to-eye.

Sure wish I could see your project in person. Beginning to guess things like drag link needs flipping over, to give more frame clearance. BTW: has idler arm been changed? What did drag link come off of?

Something to remember, the pitman arm MUST FIT gear's output shaft on one end, and fit drag link on the other end. Obviously either the box OR the drag link fits incorrectly! IIRC, the '71-'72 had a smaller gearbox shaft end AND drag link end than some later years. Actually among 1st ones I did, was tempted to cut the 2 diff. pitman arms and splice-weld with one small end and one big end.

Below's a research I saved from a forum member--maybe Keith, maybe Woogeroo [They may be one and same, but did gobs of research on this issue and probably others, too.)--that may help.


"PARTS THAT INTERCHANGE W/1960-1987 PKPS


"Drum to Disc" conversions 60-70

60-62 truck with:

63-70 Crossmember Installed
********************************
60-62 Truck with:
71-72 Crossmember Installed
********************************
60-62 Truck with:
73-87 Crossmember Installed
********************************
60-62 Truck with:
71-72 Crossmember Not Yet Installed:
********************************
60-62 Truck with:
73-87 Crossmember Not Yet Installed:
********************************


63-66 truck with:

63-66 Crossmember Installed
********************************
63-66 truck with:
71-72 Crossmember Installed
********************************
63-66 truck with:
73-87 Crossmember Installed
********************************
63-66 truck with:
71-72 Crossmember Not Yet Installed:
********************************
63-66 truck with:
73-87 Crossmember Not Yet Installed:
********************************


67-70 truck with:

67-70 Crossmember Installed
********************************
67-70 truck with:
71-72 Crossmember Installed
********************************
67-70 truck with:
73-87 Crossmember Installed
********************************
67-70 truck with:
71-72 Crossmember Not Yet Installed:
********************************
67-70 truck with:
73-87 Crossmember Not Yet Installed:


*********************************************************************************
60-72 truck with

"Unknown" Crossmember Swap?
* This is where it's hard to determine the correct parts needed.

Here's the break down by year:

Disc Brake Spindle:
*60-70 (Aftermarket Conversion Spindles)
*71-72 (oem or drop)
*73-87 (oem or drop)

C10
Grouped by Differences:
*60-62
*63-70
*71-72
*73-87 (HD 1.25" wide rotors)
*81-87 (LD 1.00" wide rotors)
**Some 81-87 trucks also had the HD rotors**
** All Aftermarket 6-lug "Conversion Rotors Are the HD 1.25" wide version**
C20
*71-87

Rotors:
*71-72 (1.25" wide)
*73-87 (HD 1.25" wide rotors)
*81-87 (LD 1.00" wide rotors)
**Some 81-87 trucks also had the HD rotors**
** All Aftermarket 6-lug "Conversion Rotors Are the HD 1.25" wide version**

Calipers:
*71-72 (1.25" wide)
*73-87 (HD 1.25" wide rotors)
*81-87 (LD 1.00" wide rotors)
**Some 81-87 trucks also had the HD rotors**
** All Aftermarket 6-lug "Conversion Rotors Are the HD 1.25" wide version**

Upper Ball Joint:
Grouped by Differences:
C10
*60-62
*63-70
*71-72
*73-87
C20
*71-87

Lower Ball Joint:
Grouped by Differences:
C10
*60-62
*63-70
*71-87
C20
*71-87

Control Arm Upper Cross Shafts:
Grouped by Differences:
C10
*60-62
*63-72
*73-87
C20
*63-87

Control Arm Lower Cross Shafts:
Grouped by Differences:
C10
*60-62
*63-72
*73-87
C20
*67-86


Inner Tie Rods:
Grouped by Differences:
C10
*60-62
*63-64
*65-70
*71-72
*73-87
C20
*60-64 (drivers side)
*60-64 (pass. side)
*65-70
*71-87

Outer Tie Rods:
Grouped by Differences:
C10
*60-64
*65-70
*71-72
*73-87
C20
*60-64
*65-70
*71-87

Tie Rod Adjusting Sleeves
Grouped by Differences:
C10 and C20
*60-64
*65-70 (5/8" thread)
*71-87 (11/16" thread)

Centerlink:
Grouped by Differences:
*60-62
*63-64
*65-70
*71-72
*73-87

Pitman Arm:
Grouped by differences:
C10
*60-66 Manual
*60-66 P/S
*67-72 Manual
*67-87 P/S (Specify Year When Ordering)
C20
manual:
*60-66
*67-68
*69-70
*71-87
Power Steering:
*69-70
*71-87

Idler Arm
Grouped by differences:
C10
*60-62
*63-66
*67-82
*83-87
C20
*60-66
*67-82
*83-87

Steering Box:
Manual
*60-62
*63-66
*67-82
*83-87
Power Steering
__________________
Keith"

[pdxhall]

Are you sure that's not a 4x4 pitman arm. It looks to have more drop than the one I put on but I don't have a real good picture. I just did mine last week with a 79 ps gear and Captain's bracket. Here's the best picture I could find.

[65 C20]

As far as the off-set on the Moog K6131, I just measured mine.
With a straight edge on top of the end with the grease nipple over to the main shaft I have approx. 5/8" off-set.
From what I can tell yours looks the same.
As mentioned by luvbowties, did you change your idler arm?, and does it also have the 5 1/4"eye to eye?
I also looked at the manual box pitman arm and it also has the 5 1/4" C/C with no offset but it is a smaller box. I believe that they are not inter-changeable as shaft sizes are different.
Keep us posted.
Cal.

[LostMy65]

The 5/8 drop or offset on the power pitman arm is because the power box has a shorter shaft where the pitman arm mounts.
Compare these pics below.
You'll see the manual pitman arm and the power pitman arm are at the same height where they would mount to the drag-link.

[LostMy65]

It might be good for those doing this upgrade to first do some measurement comparisons with the old box to the one the person is installing.
Where the person first sets the new and old box on the template to first confirm the pitman arm's drag-link mounting locations - making sure they are keeping the drag-link at its same location. It appears every once in a great while some are ending up with pitman arms or power boxes that move the drag-link toward the crossmember - causing interference.

[CRGRS 66]

In the second picture in post#2 you will see the spacer between the 2 washers that support the rubber bushings on the sway bar. I removed these spacer tubes and tightened up the nut more on the inner tie rod end on the DS. These two adjustments allowed enough clearance between the sway bar and the tie rod adjustment sleeve, and between the inner tie rod end and the cross member. The center link is still very close to the cross member, but there is no interference. I bought a new idler arm, which measures the same as the original, which are both 5-3/4" center to center, which is 1/2" longer than the K6131 pitman arm. Everywhere I look the 67-72 idler arms are not a 2 bolt frame mount design, they have tapered/threaded shaft mounts on both ends, if I have the wrong idler arm, I don't know what the correct one is...

[Captainfab]

The '67-'72 idler arms are completely different than the '63-'66 idler arms. Are you currently using the idler arm that is original to your truck?