late 90's vortec 3500 ?s

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by Mock1

I was only stating my experience with what ive done, not what he should do. I also stated the rotating assembly speced out, so I used the stock cam, standard bore block with stock rings, and stock pistons.
I have two different distributers, factory HEI, and a MSD Pro Billet, both gears were IDENTICAL to the gear Summit sold me for a roller cam. And it wasnt for a corvette or a camaro.
Ive opened six 4x4 350s in the past year and they all had swirl port heads, maybe a fluke, dont know. I just assumed they all were. My bad.

Not trying to start a war, sorry.
-I did misunderstand about the cam. I thought I read that you were putting in a larger one. My apologies.
-It is virtually impossible to tell by sight the difference in a stock distributor gear for a roller cam and a non-roller. They do need to be compatible or you may have issues. There is a lot of reading available out there, but much of it is on aftermarket cams. As inexpensive as a distributor gear is, to me it is cheap insurance and not worth the risk. The Camaro/Corvette reference is just an easy way of finding an application for a stock distributor.
-Still not convinced about 4x2 vs: 4x4. This article from Super Chevy talks about 1/2 ton being different than some 3/4 and 1 ton castings.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/97458/
I was-and still am-under the impression that they are all the same combustion chamber. Also the better/worse flow myth has been debunked.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=315686
and other places.

Again, not trying to start a war. Just wanted the OP to do more research.

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

Good info. Can you elaborate on how to run individual injectors and where to get the parts to do the swap?

The original spider injection system that came on most of these models was a single piece, which meant that if an injector went out, (and they usually did from what I have read), you had to replace the entire unit. However, most parts houses now sell a unit with where the individual injectors are removeable. I had to do the one on my tahoe, luckily the unit had already been replaced so I only had to buy a couple of $65 injectors rather than the $400 complete unit.

[Mock1]

I apologize also as I wasnt tryin to come off as a know it all.
They only made 90 million small blocks!! :-)
The inspection of said cam gears was done by myself and a seasoned machinist with calipers and mics. We evn measured the pitch of the gears, depth, and crown. Unless its the MATERIAL thats different, that I wouldnt know.
Its all good bro, we're all learnin.
That said, I wouldnt recommend doing this to a fuel injected engine cause your really takin a step back. I did it just to say I did it.

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by Mock1

I apologize also as I wasnt tryin to come off as a know it all.
They only made 90 million small blocks!! :-)
The inspection of said cam gears was done by myself and a seasoned machinist with calipers and mics. We evn measured the pitch of the gears, depth, and crown. Unless its the MATERIAL thats different, that I wouldnt know.
Its all good bro, we're all learnin.
That said, I wouldnt recommend doing this to a fuel injected engine cause your really takin a step back. I did it just to say I did it.

My whole intention is to get fuel injection. I am a trained motorcycle mechanic, and now I repair heavy equipment. As a motorcycle mechanic though, I have seen over the years the advancements that fuel injection has offered. Sure carburetors are nostalgic and look neat, but it's not like I'm running the original q-jet anyways. when I was working as an mc mechanic, I specialized in performance tuning, dyno tuning, engine building, and ecm programming. I have seen the gains of FI vs carbs. most carburetors have 3 to 4 jets to control fuel for the entire throttle duration.... most tunable FI systems have between 10 and 100 postions to adjust from closed to WOT, and then multiply the number of adjustable throttle positions by the rpm range .... the adjustments are endless. There is a reason why carburetors aren't used in any competition racing (besides some drag applications) they are outdated.

Back to the point... I do want FI, and I do want the O.D. trans, I think that with FI and some engine mods I can really make this truck a whole lot of fun. I would like to find a ecm that allows for 2 maps so I could have my power/race map, and my fuel economy map.

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by Nitis

If you don't mind me asking what's your budget? And what's it going in? Sure you can get late 90s tables for under a grand but they're pretty used up over 200k on the ticker right?

I just abandoned the thought of doing an LS swap on mine mainly because it's a 4x4 requiring crossmember swap and suspension lift. All things that kept stretching the required budget not really out of reach but to the point it would take me longer to finish the project than I wanted.

When I do add fuel injection down the road it will be tbi I'm almost certain unless I stumble upon some I found wealth

I passed on a wrecked 2003 tahoe 5.3 with 150k for 1300 the other day. If I had a 2wd I would have found my donor

My budget is cheap as possible. If I buy an ls motor, it will likely end up in my 2001 sierra... I have had a hard time finding an ls complete package for under 2k in my area. And that is for a wrecked truck/van that has over 100k on it. I can find a running registered truck/tahoe/van with a 5700 in it for 1000, yank the power train and sell the rest. Either way i will be pulling the motor apart and doing some refreshing/inspection/installing, but the price point to start is a lot better with the late 90's stuff and I get true closed loop FI. I have had a number of vehicles with TBI and I wasn't overly impressed.

[no1udknow]

quick note, if you guys have never seen a power commander map, this is what it looks like.... SOOOO MUCH ADJUSTMENT

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by no1udknow

My budget is cheap as possible. If I buy an ls motor, it will likely end up in my 2001 sierra... I have had a hard time finding an ls complete package for under 2k in my area. And that is for a wrecked truck/van that has over 100k on it. I can find a running registered truck/tahoe/van with a 5700 in it for 1000, yank the power train and sell the rest. Either way i will be pulling the motor apart and doing some refreshing/inspection/installing, but the price point to start is a lot better with the late 90's stuff and I get true closed loop FI. I have had a number of vehicles with TBI and I wasn't overly impressed.

I say go for it. I havnt messed with a 5.7 in a few years but I've got a vortec 7.4 in my dd truck (granted the injection system is a bit different) I've had for 10+ years and I've always loved it. I've had a few suburbans with the 5.7 and was happy with them as well. For the price compared to an Ls swap it's hard to beat. Sure there's trade offs the Ls motors have more power potential due to their head design and flow but this is a great alternative to get proven reliable fuel injection, and serpentine. I think it's a great idea. Freshen it up where needed and let it eat!

[Nitis]

Well I'm basically in your area and if you can score a rig for a grand do it I haven't looked a lot but I haven't seen one. I will agree people around here are very proud of the LS stuff.

Also don't confuse it as a 5700 I'm still pretty sure 5700 is an LS car engine like the 6000 and 7000

This is a route I would seriously consider going myself when the time comes so please share your findings on ecm stuff wiring and programming.

As for TBI yeah maybe it's no house of power but I have 300 k on my 93 and it still gets 17 mpg and gets me around just fine. Again my train for considering it is simplicity.

[67c10rustbuket]

Cheap and easy.

[mikecaddy500]

Was planning an ls swap for my 72, but my buddy sold me a great running 98 for 1200. I plan on using the motor and trans as well as the gas tank/pump and driveshaft (1 pc). Was trying to find info on swapping out the front crossmember and front suspension, but no one has answered.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

Not trying to start a war, sorry.
-I did misunderstand about the cam. I thought I read that you were putting in a larger one. My apologies.
-It is virtually impossible to tell by sight the difference in a stock distributor gear for a roller cam and a non-roller. They do need to be compatible or you may have issues. There is a lot of reading available out there, but much of it is on aftermarket cams. As inexpensive as a distributor gear is, to me it is cheap insurance and not worth the risk. The Camaro/Corvette reference is just an easy way of finding an application for a stock distributor.
-Still not convinced about 4x2 vs: 4x4. This article from Super Chevy talks about 1/2 ton being different than some 3/4 and 1 ton castings.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/97458/
I was-and still am-under the impression that they are all the same combustion chamber. Also the better/worse flow myth has been debunked.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=315686
and other places.

Again, not trying to start a war. Just wanted the OP to do more research.

Agreed. Real Vortec 350's do not have swirl port heads (except on craigslist LOL), and yes the different casting number Vortec head rumor was de-bunked.

As far as roller cams needing compatible distributor gears, you are right they do need to be compatible. GM uses a hard steel cam and needs a melonized distributor gear.

If you are talking aftermarket, some/most nowadays are pressed/melded together 2 pc cores with iron distributor drive gear and require flat tappet style compatible distributor gear.

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by no1udknow

My whole intention is to get fuel injection. I am a trained motorcycle mechanic, and now I repair heavy equipment. As a motorcycle mechanic though, I have seen over the years the advancements that fuel injection has offered. Sure carburetors are nostalgic and look neat, but it's not like I'm running the original q-jet anyways. when I was working as an mc mechanic, I specialized in performance tuning, dyno tuning, engine building, and ecm programming. I have seen the gains of FI vs carbs. most carburetors have 3 to 4 jets to control fuel for the entire throttle duration.... most tunable FI systems have between 10 and 100 postions to adjust from closed to WOT, and then multiply the number of adjustable throttle positions by the rpm range .... the adjustments are endless. There is a reason why carburetors aren't used in any competition racing (besides some drag applications) they are outdated.

Back to the point... I do want FI, and I do want the O.D. trans, I think that with FI and some engine mods I can really make this truck a whole lot of fun. I would like to find a ecm that allows for 2 maps so I could have my power/race map, and my fuel economy map.

http://howellefi.com/gm-vortec-produ...n-2-3-4-5.html

I have a Howell harness on my Tuned Port. Very well made and terminated. I have another brand in another swap with cheap tiny wire and no loom. I saved $100-or did I?

[dirtyjim]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

Good info. Can you elaborate on how to run individual injectors and where to get the parts to do the swap?

basically your combining parts from both the vortec black box style harness and the ls based 411 harness. if you start out with the 2001-02 express van harness you will need to get the injector harness from a ls engine then repin it to the express van haness.
if your repining the 96-2000 black box pcm harness for the 411 pcm swap you will need to get the injector harness when you pull the 411 pcm from the salvage yard.
old school efi makes a stand alone 411pcm vortec harness for around $600 or you can google 411 pcm swap the find a guy who goes by lextech on most forums and get the pinout from him

just research 411pcm swaps for a few days and you should be able to find plenty of info on them

[The Blue Pig]

Originally Posted by 67c10rustbuket

Cheap and easy.

67, I am looking into beginning this exact modification starting in a week or two. Just bought my 99 Burb donor yesterday. Did you have fitment issues with the factory manifolds or just decide on those ones since it was out? Did you run into any other surprises along the way, so far? I guess swapping this quazi old tech into our trucks has become far surpassed by LS swaps and it's actually tough to find much information on the actual process of the L31 swap. Thanks!

[67c10rustbuket]

Originally Posted by The Blue Pig

67, I am looking into beginning this exact modification starting in a week or two. Just bought my 99 Burb donor yesterday. Did you have fitment issues with the factory manifolds or just decide on those ones since it was out? Did you run into any other surprises along the way, so far? I guess swapping this quazi old tech into our trucks has become far surpassed by LS swaps and it's actually tough to find much information on the actual process of the L31 swap. Thanks!

No surprises, everything bolts right up since its still just a gen1 Sbc. Well the power steering pump will be a metric o ring fitting while the original steering gear would be a flare fitting so you need to make sure to get matching components and or fittings.
I have always been a fan of headers. Used manifolds look so nasty to me. Just my preference. I hear that the stock manifolds do fit though. There are others running this combo, I know member johnt71 has stock manifolds although he's not active Anymore. Search johnt71 should turn up his thread.

Still have not started mine but getting closer.

[The Blue Pig]

Cool! Looks good, man. It looks like you did away with that pesky fitting on the intake for the hose that goes to the heater core and replaced it with a standard type (barbed?) fitting?

Those factory fittings with the plastic, snap in piece are such a pain.