New distrubutor; "Lost" the timing mark on balancer

[slikside]

Hey all,

I have an all stock original 350 motor in my '72 with the TH350 auto transmission.

Recent issues with heavy moisture was causing problems with my old ignition...wires, points, etc... So I installed a new HEI distributor, new wires, and plugs gapped accordingly. Had never stabbed a distributor before....

So it fired right up and ran from the get go....well, after pushing the throttle for some gas and setting the choke. I had forgotten to do that in my excitement to start it. Once I did though, it fired and ran. No backfires, no sputtering/missing. IOW, it ran just as it should.

So I grab my timing light and.....no timing mark to be found! Just could not be seen anywhere near the timing tab with the light from the number 1 cylinder. I noticed when I pulled my old distributor, the timing mark was right at about 12 o'clock...kinda hard to see it under the water pump. It was just before the tab. The rotor was also just before the terminal for the number 1 cylinder on the distributor cap.

So when I installed the new distributor, I did so with the rotor approaching that same spot, and the vacuum advance can pointing in the same place as the old one. Had to use a long screwdriver several times to get the oil pump shaft to line up...but I got it fully seated, and then it ran as described.

I did notice though that the new distributor does not appear to be "clocked" properly. The battery and tack terminals are at 9 o'clock, rather than what I assume would look more natural at 6 o'clock.

Regardless (or maybe not), how could my timing mark be so far off, and the engine still runs as well as it does??

Do I need to "clock" the distributor in order to get my timing mark back?? Chancing my tail without it!

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

[slikside]

Here's a pic:

[A1971Blazer]

doesn't matter how it's "clocked" as long as #1 is close...if it starts and runs...it's close.....when you go to time it with the light....UNPLUG the vacuum advance....then you'll probably see the timing mark....

[davepl]

Originally Posted by A1971Blazer

doesn't matter how it's "clocked" as long as #1 is close...if it starts and runs...it's close.....when you go to time it with the light....UNPLUG the vacuum advance....then you'll probably see the timing mark....

There shouldn't be vacuum advance at idle (doesn't mean you're wrong, it means something else is wrong if that's the case).

The ported vacuum slots should be completely covered by the throttle blades at idle. Generally if you have vacuum advance at idle it's because the throttle blades have had to been opened extra far to compensate for a vacuum leak or similar.

It's not 180 out or it wouldn't run at all, so I'd set the balancer to 0 (assuming its correct, but you could check it with a piston stop). Then pop the cap and make sure the #1 pole is aligned with the rotor tab. That'll tell you for sure it's all clocked right.

And because I've done worse, make sure you're really on the #1 wire with your timing light pickup. If you grabbed #3 by mistake for example you won't see the mark.

[slikside]

Originally Posted by A1971Blazer

doesn't matter how it's "clocked" as long as #1 is close...if it starts and runs...it's close.....when you go to time it with the light....UNPLUG the vacuum advance....then you'll probably see the timing mark....

In driving it around, I could tell that it was pinging on acceleration. So I had retarded the timing a little bit about 3 different times....never could see the timing mark. But I did as you said, made sure the the VA was disconnected, stuck the light on it, and lo and behold, I began to see the mark...still well advanced above the timing tab. I continued to retard the timing until it got to 10* BTDC. Re adjusted the idle RPM, and went for a drive. Worked great! No pinging, good throttle response.

I think I'm happy now!lol.. But I'm amazed that it even fired initially with the timing so advanced. I mean, it must have been well over 30* initially.

Only issue now, is weather I want to live with how the clocking looks. The advance can is basically pointing at my heater box. And the tack and batt terminals are more like 10 o'clock. But none of that is all that apparent when the riser and air cleaner are all in place, which is how it is pretty much all the time, and it ain't no show truck, that's for sure!!

Thanks Blazer.

[slikside]

Originally Posted by davepl

There shouldn't be vacuum advance at idle (doesn't mean you're wrong, it means something else is wrong if that's the case).

The ported vacuum slots should be completely covered by the throttle blades at idle. Generally if you have vacuum advance at idle it's because the throttle blades have had to been opened extra far to compensate for a vacuum leak or similar.

It's not 180 out or it wouldn't run at all, so I'd set the balancer to 0 (assuming its correct, but you could check it with a piston stop). Then pop the cap and make sure the #1 pole is aligned with the rotor tab. That'll tell you for sure it's all clocked right.

And because I've done worse, make sure you're really on the #1 wire with your timing light pickup. If you grabbed #3 by mistake for example you won't see the mark.

Thanks Dave. The timing turned out to be MUCH more advanced that I thought could be possible and still run.

OCD was in full swing with all those new wires/terminals etc.... I had double checked to make sure I was on the #1, but I can see how easy it would be to be on the wrong wire when timing...

[A1971Blazer]

Originally Posted by slikside

In driving it around, I could tell that it was pinging on acceleration. So I had retarded the timing a little bit about 3 different times....never could see the timing mark. But I did as you said, made sure the the VA was disconnected, stuck the light on it, and lo and behold, I began to see the mark...still well advanced above the timing tab. I continued to retard the timing until it got to 10* BTDC. Re adjusted the idle RPM, and went for a drive. Worked great! No pinging, good throttle response.

I think I'm happy now!lol.. But I'm amazed that it even fired initially with the timing so advanced. I mean, it must have been well over 30* initially.

Only issue now, is weather I want to live with how the clocking looks. The advance can is basically pointing at my heater box. And the tack and batt terminals are more like 10 o'clock. But none of that is all that apparent when the riser and air cleaner are all in place, which is how it is pretty much all the time, and it ain't no show truck, that's for sure!!

Thanks Blazer.

It's easy to clock it around......just pull the cap off, remove the hold down, and pull the distributor out.....move it one or two teeth and set it back down...now comes the tricky part and unless you have a remote starter switch hooked up, you'll need someone to bump the starter to engage the oil pump drive and the dist will drop back down......then you'll have to re-time it all over..
I'm like you....I like to have it "clocked" properly just for looks.....after you do it a couple times....you'll have it mastered....!

If it's 180º out...it ain't gonna start.....also like Dave said....you should be hooked to "ported" vacuum.......rather than manifold vacuum....that may be why you couldn't see the TDC mark at first......good work...!

on edit:.....another way to "clock" it......just move the distributor and then move the wires to correspond....to the correct position...

[swamp rat]

If you pull the cap the rotor should be pointing to Cyl #1, if your clocking is off i would think you have the distributor gear one tooth off from where it was before one way or the other.

If it buggs you enough to want to fix:

Get the engine back to Compression on Cyl #1, Get a sharpie and put a mark on the distributor body where the center of the cap #1 lead is for reference, remove the distributor cap, remove the hold down clamp, lift it straight up and watch the rotor turn, once free of the cam gear rotate the rotor enough to move it one tooth then reinstall so its pointing at #1, align that sharpie mark just before the rotor center to guesstimate 10 degrees, reinstall the cap then retime.

[slikside]

Originally Posted by A1971Blazer

It's easy to clock it around......just pull the cap off, remove the hold down, and pull the distributor out.....move it one or two teeth and set it back down...now comes the tricky part and unless you have a remote starter switch hooked up, you'll need someone to bump the starter to engage the oil pump drive and the dist will drop back down......then you'll have to re-time it all over..
I'm like you....I like to have it "clocked" properly just for looks.....after you do it a couple times....you'll have it mastered....!

If it's 180º out...it ain't gonna start.....also like Dave said....you should be hooked to "ported" vacuum.......rather than manifold vacuum....that may be why you couldn't see the TDC mark at first......good work...!

on edit:.....another way to "clock" it......just move the distributor and then move the wires to correspond....to the correct position...

Originally Posted by swamp rat

If you pull the cap the rotor should be pointing to Cyl #1, if your clocking is off i would think you have the distributor gear one tooth off from where it was before one way or the other.

If it buggs you enough to want to fix:

Get the engine back to Compression on Cyl #1, Get a sharpie and put a mark on the distributor body where the center of the cap #1 lead is for reference, remove the distributor cap, remove the hold down clamp, lift it straight up and watch the rotor turn, once free of the cam gear rotate the rotor enough to move it one tooth then reinstall so its pointing at #1, align that sharpie mark just before the rotor center to guesstimate 10 degrees, reinstall the cap then retime.

Thanks, guys! Maybe next week...

I gotta make sure I can move the divorced sister-in-law outta my house later this week!lol.