No RTC (return to center) with steering, CPP

[BossHogg69]

I have been following this thread and was holding off on commenting, but I have experienced some of the same issues with two different setups. First go 'round was with the following CPP variable/quick ratio box, CPP upper/lower arms, CPP 2.5" spindles, Hotchkis front springs, new Moog everything else (tie rods, pitman, idler). New Flaming River column and new rag joint. I was using a Saginaw power steering pump that came with my March serpentine system. I also have a Hydratech hydroboost setup. I had it aligned with +6* caster (maxed out), -1.2* camber and the factory toe setting (1/8" total, I believe). The truck 'throttle steered' and was twitchy on the road, especially on the the while on the gas. I didn't care for the feel of the CPP box at all, but my daily is an '05 GMC 1500 with r & p steering, not to mention, the last time a drove my '69 before taking it apart was 6 years ago, so that may be a factor. With a stout big block and a 5 speed, it was an absolute handful to drive. About 700 miles in (just finished frame off) the pump started whining and it really started acting up. I believe part of my issue was the cheap Autozone quality rebuilt pump that came with the March serpentine setup. So, along with this and other reasons (I wanted to center the front wheels in the wheelwell) I ordered Hotchkis upper/lower arms, an AGR steering box and AGR Saginaw pump. After installing the Hotchkis arms and bleeding out the AGR pump, I noticed that the lower ball joints on the Hotchkis arms where very tight like Ruscal experienced, I thought due in part to having to crank down on the sprindle/castle nut to get the cotter key in. I went as far as loosening up the nut and putting in a cotter key that was a couple sizes smaller that what's actually supposed to go in there and it was still really tight to turn back and forth. That's where I'm at now, as the motor dropped #1 intake valve on the test drive after getting the AGR box & pump installed.

[Ruscal]

Adam,
Bummer about the intake valve.
As you discovered, the castle nuts torque on the taper has nothing to do with the friction of the joint. The torque is just to bind the taper without any play.
Just retorque and recotter. The tight joints may loosen with enough time, but it is pretty sketchy on the freeway! I chose to just change them out. It steers nice now.
Russ

My alignment: -.5 per side camber, 1/16" total toe. I can't measure camber, but is a bunch. tires really tip in during cornering.

[BossHogg69]

Ruscal - I'll be changing the lower ball joints out just as you did. The engine I'm having built comes in at 532 cubic inches - steering is going to have to be right on to keep this heap between the lines! I've already dumped too much money in this Hotchkis/AGR setup to worry about it handling at speed.

[Ruscal]

Adam,
I hear ya on the $$. It will be worth it when the issues are worked out. My C10 has not seen over about 85 MPH so far. She is well planted up to that speed. Mine is just a stock 195 horse crate 350, so can't go too much faster.
Russ

[Houston Ben]

Quick update on mine 68,
My passenger side is really bad. If i moved it back and fourth real fast it would seize up on me, this is the lower CPP ball joint. the drivers side was good to go.

Passenger side
https://plus.google.com/111427573848...ts/YPZEenXstMt

https://plus.google.com/111427573848...ts/jApPvU5yywA

Driver side
https://plus.google.com/111427573848...ts/86QC15Fjai3

['68 Newtricks]

Sounds very similar guys. Twitchy on the freeway and over steers easily. I would really like to get a good burn out and donut out of my system but since I can't saw the wheel it's very uncomfortable.

And yes, my PS pump is starting to whine also It's a hydroboost pump that came on the LS engine, just not using hydroboost brakes. This blows, it's not a fun job working on this thing in the dirt and outside, so taking everything apart isn't something I look forward to.

Should I be able to move the BJ by hand? If I take the knuckles off, how much force does it take to rotate the BJs?

[Ruscal]

Originally Posted by '68 Newtricks

Sounds very similar guys. Twitchy on the freeway and over steers easily. I would really like to get a good burn out and donut out of my system but since I can't saw the wheel it's very uncomfortable.

And yes, my PS pump is starting to whine also It's a hydroboost pump that came on the LS engine, just not using hydroboost brakes. This blows, it's not a fun job working on this thing in the dirt and outside, so taking everything apart isn't something I look forward to.

Should I be able to move the BJ by hand? If I take the knuckles off, how much force does it take to rotate the BJs?

Ball joints installed into control arms not hooked to steering joints should move with very little drag when cycled by hand at the spindle. Think ball bearings.
Russ

[Houston Ben]

UPDATE:

CPP is sending me a new ball joint for my a-arm. I have been emailing them back and forth and they decided to send a new one so kudos to them.

Does anyone know if replacing a ball joint on a tubular control arm is the same as a stock one? Will that C-clamp thing work for this?

[Houston Ben]

UPDATE ON MY END:

I replaced both crappy CPP installed ball joints with moog and now all is very good!! Just replace and be done with it. I am ticked that I had to do this though.

['68 Newtricks]

Update as well.
I don't feel like dealing with CPP anymore. I just spent my own money on some Moog made in the USA ball joints, upper and lower. I didn't want to swap bad joints for bad joints, so I just bought my own. I had horrible brake squeal from their brake set up as well. I got rid of their pads and swapped in some AC Delco pads. Noise went away.

I am now dealing with their front swaybar being too wide between end links. They need to be in about 1.25" more each side. This is with their LCRs too, so go figure again they're **** don't match. I have already gotten measurements from them and all their bars are the same width. So I'm going to see if I can have the arms bent in, then re-powdercoat. Yes, I will apparently fix yet another part.

[ck5566]

Originally Posted by '68 Newtricks

Update as well.
I don't feel like dealing with CPP anymore. I just spent my own money on some Moog made in the USA ball joints, upper and lower. I didn't want to swap bad joints for bad joints, so I just bought my own. I had horrible brake squeal from their brake set up as well. I got rid of their pads and swapped in some AC Delco pads. Noise went away.

I am now dealing with their front swaybar being too wide between end links. They need to be in about 1.25" more each side. This is with their LCRs too, so go figure again they're **** don't match. I have already gotten measurements from them and all their bars are the same width. So I'm going to see if I can have the arms bent in, then re-powdercoat. Yes, I will apparently fix yet another part.

I have followed quite a few Threads & comments about CPP' s China made s*** and with that said Why are we still buying from them. USA baby all the way. just my .02 cents & probably a hole lot of others that think the same way here.

[Houston Ben]

I have the same problem with their sway bar but made it work. I wish I would have just went with PB and been done with the whole thing but did not want to spent another $600+, well, lesson learned.

['68 Newtricks]

Originally Posted by Houston Ben

I have the same problem with their sway bar but made it work. I wish I would have just went with PB and been done with the whole thing but did not want to spent another $600+, well, lesson learned.

How did you make it work? Or by "make it work" do you mean just lived with the sh1tttty fitment?

[HalfCaseKustoms]

I just read this whole thread. Has been a long time since I have been on here...
1971 shortbed with 6.0/4L80e. I replaced all the balljoints, tie rod ends, cpp 500 box, cpp column, and did a hydroboost conversion from an early Grand National. It took me forever to bleed the power steering/booster. Running a stock LS pump from an Express van that had hydroboost. The steering is tight. Deffinatly not two finger steering. It has got a little better with some miles, but you guys described my driving experience to a T! I have a really good alignment/chassis guy that our shop works with, and he's telling me it's the box...
I'm going to check my ball joints as soon as I get it back from the body shop. I can partially blame my steering for my accident with a guardrail.

[HalfCaseKustoms]

Oh! This is also my second pump because the first one started whining in no time. This one has started too. I'm sure everything is plumbed right and bled.