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Old 06-05-2002, 09:42 PM   #1
HvyChevy454
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Tuning question!

after many numerous attempts to try to tune my engine on my own I now turn to yall for help. Ive got the edelbrock 1410 atop a performer RPM intake. its an 850 cfm so i know its plenty for the motor. i know i have the timing right too. but the problem is when i get on the gas the truck will climb through the rpms smoothly until it gets into the high 3000's and up, itll start to loose power,idle back, cough, and just make a whole lotta heck till it shifts and drop the rpm. it only does it when i am gettin on the gas b/c it will only do it if the throttle is more than half way. Is it running too rich too lean are teh secondaries not doing their job? I dont know, im lost?
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Old 06-05-2002, 09:54 PM   #2
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Sounds like your vacuum advance isn't working.
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Old 06-05-2002, 10:04 PM   #3
HvyChevy454
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just spent $150 on a new mallory distributor.
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Old 06-05-2002, 10:16 PM   #4
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My eldebrock did this when the secondarys were not getting any fuel.
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Old 06-05-2002, 10:17 PM   #5
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How much total timing are you running?
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Old 06-05-2002, 10:19 PM   #6
HvyChevy454
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engine is advanced 12 degree i left the stock springs in the new distrib.
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There is No replacement for Displacement...
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Old 06-05-2002, 10:32 PM   #7
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TTT for hvy-chevy
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Old 06-05-2002, 11:40 PM   #8
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Ok. Heres a few questions that will help diagnose things.

Whats your total timing at 3200 rpm?

Wheres your vacuum advance plugged into ?

Is it manifold or venturi vacuum to your vacuum advance? Are you using vacuum advance?

You put the stock springs in the new distributor? What type of distributor are you using now? What did you use before?

Ae you sure the throttle plates are opening all the way. Have you checked with someone else working the gas pedal?

Is this a new motor? New timing cover? Balancer?

Do you know your at idle vacuum reading?

Do you use a PCV system?

Wheres your fuel filter? is it new? What about the pump? do you have a pressure gauge? Can you get a pressure/vacuum gauge... you know the $20 handheld type?
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Last edited by mikep; 06-06-2002 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 06-06-2002, 12:22 AM   #9
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I have the Edlebroke manual choke model. It is about like yours. I am told that the jets are not usually right. There was extensive disscussion on Wes' board about it and the conclusion was that most Edlebrokes will need to be run through the calibration kit to get them right. I guess the kit has a selection of jets and stuff. I never bothered.

I am not real happy with the Edlebroke. Give a Holley any day (Another Ford vs Chevy type argument)

Good luck
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Old 06-06-2002, 12:41 AM   #10
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T- into your fuel line between the pump and carb, Find a way to run a line so you can watch the gauge. Give it a good hard run and note the readings while its acting up.

If pressure and timing are ok, look at exhaust backpressure. Any mods done lately? crushed pipe? Does it sound like it always has?

If all of these are ok I would start looking into the carb... restricted fuel inlet, float drop setting incorrect or stuck secondary butterfly.

You mentioned a new distributor, was the problem before or after that?

Just a recap... 3 main things that will cause it: Lack of fuel, too much backpressure (restricted exhaust) or loss of ignition.
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Old 06-06-2002, 09:16 AM   #11
HvyChevy454
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- dont know the timing at 3200
- vac advance it plugged n2 the port below the throttle plates
its carb manifold to the vacuum advance
- i left i the stock timing curve springs in the new mallory distrib i bought
- i had a stock 1986 HEI distrib off of a 350
- plates open that was a prob b4, it only acts up under a load, cant simulate it in the garage
- motor has 16k on it new cam, timing chain, cover and balancer have been remover and replaced
- if i recall the vacuum was like 21'' my dad thought it was alot of vacuum
- new pcv also
- new fuel filter and new purolator electric fuel pump
- dual 3'' exhuast h-pipe 40 series Flowmaster for almost a year
- problem was b4 the new distrib, its the reason i bought a new distrib
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    91 454 Edel Performer RPM Intake 750 cfm carb Comp Cam 268/.495 Hedman Headers Dual 3'' Exhaust
  • 71 Cheyenne 20 4x4 Fact. A/C PS PB Tilt Currently in the works...
Speak Softly and Carry A Big Block...
There is No replacement for Displacement...
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
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Old 06-06-2002, 12:47 PM   #12
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Did you install the new cam after the motor was built? did you change valves, springs? Sounds to me like you could be "floating the valves" at these high rpm. This means the springs aren't strong enough to close the valves at high rpm.
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Old 06-06-2002, 01:23 PM   #13
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Its sounds to me like you have a couple of problems.

1. Put the mallory springs back in the distributor. You want the advance to come on quicker for best performance and late model HEI springs arent the way to go. Also buy or borrow and advance timing light and set your timing up to 34-38 degrees at 3200 rpm or so. That might make your initial timing more than 12 degrees but that doesnt matter.Initial timing means nothing.

2. That fuel pump probably isnt delivering enugh fuel to keep your engine fed and your running out of gas. If its the little purolator crappy one I am thinking of it definitely isnt enough especially if thats a big block you are trying to feed. That popping and other symptoms is your carb going way lean from lack of fuel. Barring something off the wall I'm 99% positive thats your base problem. Edelbrock( carter) carbs dont have large fuel bowls and they need a good 5 psi of fuel pressure under load to work at all with higher performance than stock motors . The stock mechanical chevy fuel pump can handle it. I run a carter high perf mechanical and it more than feeds mine but I have experienced similar problems feeding carter type carbs with undersized electric pumps .

Also check the fuel strainer in the gas tank if it has one to make sure it isnt clogged.
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Last edited by mikep; 06-06-2002 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 06-06-2002, 03:57 PM   #14
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Unhappy

had to get me started on the cam ordeal...

i put a comp cams timing chain and 268H-10 cam w/.495 lift and new lifters according to comp cams this is supposed to be the biggest cam i could put in the engine and still retain my stock rockers springs and pushrods. well it wasnt b/c when i put the cam in the stock pushrods were now too short. i could not adjust the rockers b/c the motor has non adjustable rockers. so i had to spend more money on new set of rockers that were adjustable. Had i know that in the 1st place i would of went and got a whole kit for a bigger cam. a $180 cam/lifter set ended up turning into a $500 ordeal

anyway, driving home from work today i noticed it will only do if i start from a dead or near dead stop and power all the way through. it will not do it if im cruising then drop it into the passing gear. if from a dead stop i spin the tires the whole time it will not do it. if i let off to let the tires get grip then continue on hard it does act up.
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  • 71 Cheyenne 20 4x4 Fact. A/C PS PB Tilt Currently in the works...
Speak Softly and Carry A Big Block...
There is No replacement for Displacement...
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
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Old 06-06-2002, 04:35 PM   #15
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OK I am going to take a stab at this one. According to edelbrocks website, the 1410 is a 750 marine sqaurebore carb. You said you have it mounted on a performer intake which is a speadbore. To do that you are supposed to use edelbrocks adapter #2732. It is just a flat metal plate that keeps that carb from having a vacuum leak on that intake. For some reason most people never hear about the little plate. [The only reason I know about it is I worked in speedshop for a while] Here's the link.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html
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Old 06-06-2002, 04:44 PM   #16
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'well it wasnt b/c when i put the cam in the stock pushrods were now too short. i could not adjust the rockers b/c the motor has non adjustable rockers.'

We are talking about a Chevy small block 350 aren't we???
As far as I know ALL Chevrolet motors have adjustable rocker arms, the stock pushrods/rockers should have worked just fine...

By ALL, I mean later model (68 and up) motors, I'm sure there are some older versions that may have had non adjustable rocker arms...
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Old 06-06-2002, 05:08 PM   #17
HvyChevy454
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91 454 big block
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------------------
  • 72 Cheyenne 10 LWB GM 12-bolt 3.08 w/ Auburn Posi
    91 454 Edel Performer RPM Intake 750 cfm carb Comp Cam 268/.495 Hedman Headers Dual 3'' Exhaust
  • 71 Cheyenne 20 4x4 Fact. A/C PS PB Tilt Currently in the works...
Speak Softly and Carry A Big Block...
There is No replacement for Displacement...
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
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Old 06-06-2002, 05:11 PM   #18
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my mistake i have the 1407 just the tuning specs were on the same page in my little book, but i do have the adapter plate on it.
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------------------
  • 72 Cheyenne 10 LWB GM 12-bolt 3.08 w/ Auburn Posi
    91 454 Edel Performer RPM Intake 750 cfm carb Comp Cam 268/.495 Hedman Headers Dual 3'' Exhaust
  • 71 Cheyenne 20 4x4 Fact. A/C PS PB Tilt Currently in the works...
Speak Softly and Carry A Big Block...
There is No replacement for Displacement...
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

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Old 06-06-2002, 05:16 PM   #19
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Did the truck originally have a 6-cyl in it? Are you using the original fuel tank and sending unit? Weren't the 6-cyl tank fuel pickup tubes smaller than the V-8 ones? That could restrict your fuel flow.
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Old 06-06-2002, 05:18 PM   #20
HvyChevy454
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it had a v8 in it but i have the poly blazer tank in it now
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------------------
  • 72 Cheyenne 10 LWB GM 12-bolt 3.08 w/ Auburn Posi
    91 454 Edel Performer RPM Intake 750 cfm carb Comp Cam 268/.495 Hedman Headers Dual 3'' Exhaust
  • 71 Cheyenne 20 4x4 Fact. A/C PS PB Tilt Currently in the works...
Speak Softly and Carry A Big Block...
There is No replacement for Displacement...
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

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Old 06-06-2002, 06:31 PM   #21
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ok at 3200 rpm i have 55 degrees of advance. that seems like alot
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------------------
  • 72 Cheyenne 10 LWB GM 12-bolt 3.08 w/ Auburn Posi
    91 454 Edel Performer RPM Intake 750 cfm carb Comp Cam 268/.495 Hedman Headers Dual 3'' Exhaust
  • 71 Cheyenne 20 4x4 Fact. A/C PS PB Tilt Currently in the works...
Speak Softly and Carry A Big Block...
There is No replacement for Displacement...
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti


Last edited by HvyChevy454; 06-06-2002 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 06-06-2002, 07:19 PM   #22
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WAY too much advance. why dont you try disconnecting the vacuum advance and plugging the port and see if that helps. You dont want more than 40 degrees under just about any circumstance.

You do need more fuel pump than that though. try the advance first but that little diaphragm electric pump is a piece of ****. It wont feed your 454. Mallory makes a real nice QUIET gerotor electric pump for about $150. Holleys are too loud and having gone through too many before there was any option besides holley I dont think they are very good pumps. They'll drive you nuts.
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Last edited by mikep; 06-06-2002 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 06-07-2002, 10:37 AM   #23
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Boy, do I feel silly... I should read the signatures more... big blocks don't have adjustable rocker arms? I've never worked on a big block, I just assumed they were similar to the small blocks..

It does sound like it's a timing issue though... 55 degrees is way too much timing...
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Old 06-07-2002, 10:59 AM   #24
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late model big blocks dont have adjustable rockers. Earlier models do.
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Old 06-08-2002, 02:37 PM   #25
HvyChevy454
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well the fuel pump solved it! runs awesome now, i just wish i could get it to lauch better, it feels like the engine struggles off idle, people tell me its me 3.08 rear end but i was hoping the BB would have the torque to make up fro it
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------------------
  • 72 Cheyenne 10 LWB GM 12-bolt 3.08 w/ Auburn Posi
    91 454 Edel Performer RPM Intake 750 cfm carb Comp Cam 268/.495 Hedman Headers Dual 3'' Exhaust
  • 71 Cheyenne 20 4x4 Fact. A/C PS PB Tilt Currently in the works...
Speak Softly and Carry A Big Block...
There is No replacement for Displacement...
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

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