Sometimes it's painful to do Online/Digital buisness

[weq92f]

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Thursday evening I decided to get back to reading and this time I selected a classic series I enjoyed while it was being published some time ago. Hit AMZN and purchased the 7 dollar book #1 just as I always had and was off to my digital abyss somewhere far, far away.

Friday morning I resume my pleasurable experience over coffee clicking through page after page until I get a message at bottom of the Online e-book reader that said --END OF SAMPLE--. This marked the beginning of the making of a mess that's still not cleaned up as of today (Monday).

So...I went back through the steps of purchasing again after having found no indication that I actually had bought the thing in the first place. Again AMZN reported all clear and happy, wishing me a fine journey down my book reading experience but, no. I tried this a few more times thinking I'd just missed something, that this was operator error. No dice!

I'm a troubleshooter after all and so I eventually find Amazon emails in my junk folder corresponding to these failed purchases. I click on the "fix it" link in the latest one and find that it wants me to fix my CC. I look at it, all is well, nothing out of place, click Save and the button after that indicating make the purchase. I get the same screen again thanking me for my purchase but just as before, no content and no charge. The email came saying I needed to fix it with a valid/current CC. Round and round we go right? After deleting and adding fresh my valid/current, bank-attached, Visa Debit card I get the exact same results trying to purchase that book.

On Saturday morning I contacted the bank's telephone support. I quickly navigated the menu and found myself talking to an American in the state of Maine. She noted each of the attempts AMZN made to acquire funds and that they all were rejected because the EXP DATE was not correct. Through her channels, she confirmed the card was fine and should not get declined.

I created a new AMZN account with alternate email, added my CC and attempted 3 different times to purchase a 10 dollar AMZN gift card with the same results. At this point I contacted AMZN support...

Definitely not American and most certainly not in America. English skills were OK.

They didn't understand the problem at all, mostly because this doesn't fit into their standard mold of a problem. It took me over an hour to get past the first girl. She just couldn't grasp that she didn't have the tools to help me. I had to plead with her and reassure her that this wasn't a failure and nobody should be casting doubt on her because she had to send this to the next higher level. She did. The next person seemed to get what I was saying and connected with the internal Card Services folk who after another half hour or so told him it's a bug on my account and they've fixed it but it would take 24 hours for the fix to go in. OK fine! Thank you. bye. bye. Don't know yet whether that particular "fix" is a good one or not because D'oh.

I remove all CC from both accounts and logged out. Went over to BN.com and withing 10 minutes was continuing my reading pleasure ---on a different platform though

Flash to this morning and me getting back to my emails. I find a bunch of new emails from AMZN complaining about my CC again for these ghost purchases out there. With that, I decide to go cleanup my AMZN account and to my astonishment discovered I could do NOTHING to any of the over 20 outstanding purchase requests for the same title and 3 gift cards! The only option I have is to pay for them. No cancel or revert or delete available. Back on the phone with AMZN's crack support I go...

Again, the first person did not understand the problem at all. She spoke OK, a little fast perhaps but understandable and she really wanted to help. I described things to her and she seemed to catch it but kept going back to just enter a CC and then I'll refund you. My contention was that nope, there's been no charge for all these items, yet, and if I do purchase all of that, AMZN is unlikely to refund because it's all digital content. No I want to be free to add a CC and not worry about all these purchases, these redundant purchases of the same thing to charge against my funds. Over an hour of her trying what she referred to as her "helps" she told me she had exhausted everything the only solution she could suggest was close the account or purchase these items and then refund....this illustrates the whole doesn't-fit-my-mold-of-a-problem. That's just not acceptable.

I asked her very gently to move this issue to the next level and she all of a sudden had another idea she could try and so ...on hold again... and nope, that's not going to help. So I ask again to escalate and she starts pleading with me to allow her to try again. Very gently I let her know that there's no shame in not being able to solve my problem. No shame and I was honored by her great effort so far but it's time to move on. In a dejected tone of voice she told me I'd be transferred to her supervisor...

And...I'm explaining myself and AMZN's bug and my problem again. He understood and after a while he told me that the these rogue orders will need to timeout and go away on their own and to definitely not add a CC until that happens. Asked how long that might take he told me a week minimum. Right. Right.

Sunday evening I ventured out and the first use of my CC was declined! The bank, for my financial protection you understand, declined the purchase due to fraud risk! It was basically harmless as I was able to fix that with a text message but no, they're not protecting me, they're protecting themselves.

-Kevin

[Boog]

What an ordeal. I just let my wife read your story as she does the book thing but does hers through Amazon Prime. She has a digital library built up and some times has to return a book in order to buy another.
She has been warned. Thanks

[dmjlambert]

That sounds like an ordeal I would end up going through. I solved my problem by just reading the books I have already bought with my tax dollars. I've bought millions of books. So now I just check out the ones I want to read from the library and read them on my Kindle. For those Texans who don't know this tidbit, Houston Public Library issues cards to anybody in Texas (requires showing your driver's license in person at a branch or uploading picture of it or mailing them a photocopy of it), and they have a large e-book collection.

[Keith Seymore]

Two thoughts:

1 - I'm always amazed (not really) that when I make the purchase it hits my card immediately. But - returns or cancelations take several days.



2 - I always hate it when the internet version bombs out and you get stuck in some endless 'do loop' without recourse and have to make The Phone Call.

They always start with "you know - you can do this online".

My response is always "You'd like to THINK THAT, wouldn't you!!"

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where the rental car agency lets his car go even though he has a reservation.

The lady says "I KNOW what 'reservation' means..."

He says in his distinctive Seinfeldian inflection: "I don't think you do; if you did, I'd have a car right now!"

K

[kwmech]

Digital books amount to the fact you do not own a book. THE book as we all know, digital equals the info on somebody else's computer unless you have it on a thumb drive of your own and electricity to turn on your computer. Response to the Amazon debacle, yeah I have an online store with them that is systematically being destroyed by AI for any minute issue. Even my pricing if it does not meet their requirements of low balling everyone else. The only people making money on Amazon is Amazon itself. By the time they take their percentage they end up making more than I do. Amazon has turned real predatory. Only to be trumped by their horrible Seller Support system that does not do any seller support. It is all overseas.

[weq92f]

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I purchase very little from them. Basically e-books only and even now, that might end altogether.

Unfortunately for everyone, the tech support offered by big tech is very bad. Over the last 20 years I had to interface with corporate contract based support from the big guys HP, Oracle, IBM, etc. as well as a ton of smaller vendors with exceptional products we implemented into our systems. All of the major product tech support at this level was based globally but the majority of actors in the customer facing positions were from India and what I experienced at AMZN as a regular consumer was no different other than those folk weren't Indian. Horrible support and a lack of customer care. They will do fine if whatever they face has a well documented, even outlined solution. They usually don't fully understand the issue as stated to them if it isn't something known already or is really uncommon. They resist failure to solve the problem at the expense of the customer by failing to bring in the higher level support resources available to them. In my corporate role I operated with certain restrains in place when dealing with these support stiffs. In my personal dealings with them, outside of work, I became rather aggressive when they demonstrated their lack of understanding and/or ability to keep the ball moving forward. These days though, I use sugar and honey laced with known facts to get what I need out of them rather than risk being put on permanent hold or outright hung up on and have to start all over. No accountability for them when they decide the conversation is over (Not true at the Corporate level)

The smaller vendor support was usually just as I experienced at my bank (Americans in America) which was way more helpful.

Avoidance is the best way to not have to deal with them and so that is what I do 99% of the time today.

-Kevin

[weq92f]

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Finally today was ready to buy another book from AMZN. Same problem...

Getting past their initial automated system was harder this time.

Getting past their first level....impossible after over an hour. The first one said after a lot of convincing honey/sugar/facts...yes I'm xfering you to CC services...off I go. Nope. Transferred yes but...simply back to the same queue.

Another almost hour and I'm still on the phone with her refusing to transfer she just keep saying please give me another chance...then on hold again. She comes back with OK let's delete the CC and add it again! OMG. Then she says it's my bank declining. OMG Then she says I should contact them...

Then I am mad. This women doesn't even understand what the problem is. So I go back to the beginning...I've CONTACTED my BANK and they say YOU are sending the wrong EXP date....

I'm on hold again while she's desperately hunting through some list of possible things to do....comes back and sincerely apologizes for her being unable to help and that she has only one choice left to send me to the "specialist" department.

Lady gets on says she's from the Kindle dept. OK well there it happened again...they suffled me to someone else who can't help and is interested in nothing more than telling me my CC was declined. After I very confidently informed her there was no way she had any chance of fixing this problem she said OK, ima put you on hold for a moment and CLICK. phone call ended...

Good lord. This is NOT how we should be doing business AMZN, no it isn't.

So I'm off to read book #2 in this fabulous sci-fi series, again, on BN instead of AMZN.

-Kevin

[Boog]

There are a few ways to display month/day/ dates in different parts of the world. Do you think she is inserting the month and day wrong?

One time I wanted to access my retirement account on the weekend and could not get in. I tried numerous times to no avail. I finally called their help # only to get a recording instructing me to use their online site for account access.

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by Boog

There are a few ways to display month/day/ dates in different parts of the world. Do you think she is inserting the month and day wrong?

...<snip>...

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The AMZN support folk can't change settings in my account. They tell me that right up front. I type in all the CC data manually into their web site. Even their own CC "add" function verifies the CC. If I add anything incorrect into the CC add prompts, say for instance a bad CCV or EXP Date, it will fail my adding that card. The d@mn thing requires me to enter correct CC information.

I have requested my bank replace my Debit card (the very same card, it's not actually a Credit Card) which will change the CCV and the EXP Date. If that still fails, well then, I'll be done doing business with AMZN completely...against my will. BN really sucks bad in the digital book arena!

-Kevin

[weq92f]

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Conclusion:

The new bank debit card with different EXP date and security code allowed me to spend my 9 dollars on AMZN successfully!

I guess, since AMZN is the best solution, I'll continue to purchase my digital books from them even though they forced me to jump through hoops to do so.

-Kevin

[Boog]

Persistence wins. Congratulations.

[LT7A]

Wow, they should comp you the whole series and anything else that author decides to write, for as long as he lives. I can't believe that you were patient enough to go through all of that. Amazing that they never found a way to fix it. Fortunately, you were smart enough not to put in the credit card with the notices and end up buying that book multiple times. I will say that while that I am an avid reader, I still prefer the tactile experience and use a different card called the library card, haha. I always enjoy my trips to the library and still like holding a book. I have a Kindle and don't mind it, but somehow the analog version is part of the enjoyment for me.

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by LT7A

Wow, they should comp you the whole series and anything else that author decides to write, for as long as he lives. I can't believe that you were patient enough to go through all of that. Amazing that they never found a way to fix it. Fortunately, you were smart enough not to put in the credit card with the notices and end up buying that book multiple times. I will say that while that I am an avid reader, I still prefer the tactile experience and use a different card called the library card, haha. I always enjoy my trips to the library and still like holding a book. I have a Kindle and don't mind it, but somehow the analog version is part of the enjoyment for me.

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Thanks!

Indeed. The library, as another member also mentioned, is great. I too indulge when my subject matter isn't the latest and greatest new release or a little while later when it's in paperback. This I had mostly ignored though because this is the first time I've gone this far back in my reading history to repeat a series. Would that series be in the library? Well, I don't know.

I hadn't even considered it until after reading this last post from you. I chose to purchase a series that I read long ago in purchased hardbacks because I bought the next edition immediately after release. All those books have long sense been sold back to the retailers who specialize in used specimens.

I will check my local library now for this series.

Check it yourself:

Author is David Weber. Series name is Safehold.

Rumor has it...the man is working on the next book in series right now (or very soon). First volume published in 2007. Last published in 2019. Only 3 years during that span did not include the next volume.

I'm currently reading #2

Here they are:

1 Off Armageddon Reef (2007)
2 By Schism Rent Asunder (2008)
3 By Heresies Distressed (2009)
4 A Mighty Fortress (2010)
5 How Firm a Foundation (2011)
6 Midst Toil and Tribulation (2012)
7 Like a Mighty Army (2014)
8 Hell's Foundations Quiver (2015)
9 At the Sign of Triumph (2016)
10 Through Fiery Trials (2019)

-Kevin

[LT7A]

I've read a few books by David Weber and I'm pretty sure I've read at least one of the books in that series. I've definitely enjoyed his writing, although the last one I had to put down because he engages in such a profound amount of detail and background on character after character, there just wasn't enough story in between the descriptions, haha. I think he imagines prolifically and it was just too much for me. But that was just one book, one time. I'm going to see if my local library has the series. They will also order them in for me, book by book, so I can read them in order.

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by LT7A

I've read a few books by David Weber and I'm pretty sure I've read at least one of the books in that series. I've definitely enjoyed his writing, although the last one I had to put down because he engages in such a profound amount of detail and background on character after character, there just wasn't enough story in between the descriptions, haha. I think he imagines prolifically and it was just too much for me. But that was just one book, one time. I'm going to see if my local library has the series. They will also order them in for me, book by book, so I can read them in order.

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You got that right. This has come up often in discussion on the David Weber Forums page where readers discuss his various works in a format not unlike this forum we all love so much. I think the consensus is that the detail isn't put on paper to simply fill space. Those details are important to understand the relationships among characters and concepts. Deeper understanding of these relationships gives much greater impact to the decisions those characters make, their actions and the events that take place. It melds the story together in my head so much better if I try to keep up with all the characters, what they're thinking, past events in their lives...indeed the very detail that is given up front in the pages dedicated to character development.

https://forums.davidweber.net/

Of course it doesn't seem that way if/when the character you just spent 10 minutes reading up on gets whacked in the next chapter!

Aside from that, the man has a talent for gripping readers and weaving fantastic story lines in such a way as to make them intriguing enough to keep us coming back for the next work. I got caught up in his Honorverse series and read deep into it. Eventually I decided Hard Military Science Fiction was just too much and so I stopped on that one. Maybe I'll return to it in the future as well but for now, Safehold will keep me entertained in that space for quite some time to come.

There will be another title in this series if Mr. Weber can stay healthy. It's likely to tie up many of the loose ends and the crazy things that happened in the end of the last installment! When he is within a few months of releasing the title, he will start posting what everyone calls snippits of the new text in the forum mentioned above (search for snippits). Let me just tell you those snippits in the past regarding soon to be released installments in this series were hella exciting and something myself and thousands of other readers out there really, really enjoyed.

Anyway...happy reading!

-Kevin