57 Panel "FAKMLC" build

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by yossarian19

Just to throw another option out there, had you considered using a VetteWorks type adapter, so you can run a factory fuel pump / regulator / gauge sender?
Not sure it's going to be any cheaper but I like OEM solutions when I can find them.

Well thats interesting.
Pretty sure Im going to go with the TANKSINC intank pump - they have been super responsive/friendly on the 2-3 emails I have sent and have heard nothing but good feedback on their pumps.

Tank is tricky part. Think ....

1) Im going to have to get my rearend dead nuts center and plumbdrop the center of frame to ensure i have it where its going to end up.
2) Mock up a 3" sewer pipe or whatever from the flange to the output so I can see where the shaft will be.
3) Create a few squares - 10x10 and 12x12 example to see both what the clearance from frame to driveshaft looks like all the way down based on position of tank.

Go from there. Its likely I might have to go a custom tank thats 10" wide .... I got a quote for around $400 shipped ..... but its steel. Would be clost to 20Gallonos though so thats a bit better than the 16 typical and then dont have to mess with the tire.

Other options considering ...

* Dual tanks and keeping them fed somehow
* Tank on on the otherside of the frame and run the fillup across
* Go rear - and move tire to back panel door somehow - hang on back

lol

[FAKKY]

Well pulled the fuel tank.



I measure it as 49x11(w)x9(d)

Anyone know if this is a stock tank ?

The problem Im going to have with driveshaft clearance and the offset rearend ..... is even if I get a custom tanlk made thats narrower (50x9x9 .. ~ 17GAL) ..... the frame isnt square due to the crossmember supports where the axle leaf hangers tie in .........
So it might not fit anyway





This is with a 2" pvc pipe. Real driveshatft would be 0.5 inch further each side (3")

[yossarian19]

Why not just use a 2" driveshaft with heavier wall?
My '75 Wagoneer uses a 1" solid bar drive shaft in front. Can't remember how slip was achieved, but the point I'm trying to make, is that wall thickness can make up for any deficiencies of diameter.
It'll make packaging the tank that much easier, right?

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by yossarian19

Why not just use a 2" driveshaft with heavier wall?
My '75 Wagoneer uses a 1" solid bar drive shaft in front. Can't remember how slip was achieved, but the point I'm trying to make, is that wall thickness can make up for any deficiencies of diameter.
It'll make packaging the tank that much easier, right?

Yeah - I thought the same originally - but both driveshops I spoke with (Dennys/PST) both recommended a 3".

I've been fighting this measurements and fitment that last night I;m almost giving up and going to go back to putting it the rear and just finding an alternative spot for the tire.

I even thought about a custom tank going on both sides of the frame sort of like 'U' right where the side fuel fill up is ........ both nothing really seems to be a great option ...... if I had known earlier - I wouldnt have gone with an offset 8.8 ...... the extra 2" really kills me ......

Only other option would be putting the tank on the other side ...... not sure what the issues from that would be - and running a filler pipe over the top of the driveshaft closer to the axle end. Still thinking on this one .... Guessing weight/balance will be an issue with driver/fuel on same side ?

I'll ask the driveshop specifically about the thicker DOM. Possible or not.

[dsraven]

how about a custom (or not) round fuel tank like a lot of highway trucks use. it could be a as simple as buying an air tank that fits the space and then welding in the appropriate fittings for the filler and outlets and some mounting hardware (or use straps to hold the tank into some saddles on the frame).
check under a newer mustang for driveshaft clearance, not much there either. I know because I helped a buddy install some new exhaust on an '87 era. skinned knuckles to prove it. the important thing is to know your rear axle cannot move over enough to hit anything. a good panhard bar could be in order and then run the suspension through a full up and down to ensure it has clearance.

[FAKKY]

DSRAVEN.

Good idea - thought of that too -- I had already reached out to two fabricators on ebay for the spun aluminium tanks ..... to see about putting in a support flange for a intank pump. They both said they couldn't do it

the 10x40" is still only 13.5 gallons also ......

edit - whats a panhard bar ? Welded to axle and frame to prevent sideways movement of axle ? [google]

[FAKKY]

-- Update.....

Dennys driveshaft got back to me and said they cant do that 2" in steel for that length.

"Sorry...we cannot do that length in a 2 inch diameter."

I asked them what the max length is - but suspect its also tied to HP. Maybe ok on tyhe old 150HP engine

So right now still stuck on choices/options

1) Custom 50x9x9 narrow tank ..... might fit ..... along passenger rail near fuel intake.

2) NonCustom Tank on the drivers side wheres there is more space and run a longer fuel pickup across the top to the passenger side.

3) Move it to rear.

Thoughts ? Especially on [2] ??

[dsraven]

panhard bar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liR1--EHMg8

how about dual torpedo tanks, one on each side. crossover fuel line between them or frame mounted fuel pump with a tank switch over valve (like the old days, lol) or a tank on the inside of the frame with a sister tank on the outside of the frame-same side. under cab tank outside of frame on each side? S10 tank next to frame? (dunno size)

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...rod/prd591.htm

custom tank fabricator. possibly stainless or plain old steel if they don't wanna do aluminum? may depend on what you plan to run for a fuel pump-in tank-on frame?

[joedoh]

take your tank to a welding shop and have them clearance the rear of the tank (make it a trapezoid instead of a rectangle). if you need an in tank pump/sender bung installed at the same time they can do that too. it wont even cost what a new tank costs, and this one already fits.

looking good, keep up the good work.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

panhard bar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liR1--EHMg8

how about dual torpedo tanks, one on each side. crossover fuel line between them or frame mounted fuel pump with a tank switch over valve (like the old days, lol) or a tank on the inside of the frame with a sister tank on the outside of the frame-same side. under cab tank outside of frame on each side? S10 tank next to frame? (dunno size)

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...rod/prd591.htm

custom tank fabricator. possibly stainless or plain old steel if they don't wanna do aluminum? may depend on what you plan to run for a fuel pump-in tank-on frame?

Dual tanks would be awesome - but then exhaust gets pretty hard ...... and wiring and cost.

I did think about running the tank outside f the frame rail or 50/50 in a "U" ... but then read this ....

https://www.autosafety.org/history-g...s-tank-defect/

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by joedoh

take your tank to a welding shop and have them clearance the rear of the tank (make it a trapezoid instead of a rectangle). if you need an in tank pump/sender bung installed at the same time they can do that too. it wont even cost what a new tank costs, and this one already fits.

looking good, keep up the good work.

Yeah I think thats one of the two options.

Trapezoid on the passenger side - custom made .... like $500-700 depending on number of irregular shapes to make work.

Regular fuel tank abnd relocate on drivers side where there is more clearance .... and run the fuel tank intake pipe across the top to the neck filler on the passenger side.


Im really starting to understand why so many guys out it in the rear though.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by FAKKY

Trapezoid on the passenger side - custom made .... like $500-700 depending on number of irregular shapes to make work.

I am not suggesting making a new one. I dont know about where you are but here there are a lot of welding/fab shops that build dirt modified racers for weekend fun. I bet a triangle slice, not even any added material, would fix your interference. welding a gas tank is not dangerous if you clean it out well with a degreaser, some places will even fill it with sand or water.

for that matter it might be cheaper to have your axle "shortened", get an extra right axle and take the offset out of the left tube, add new leaf perches. centers the pumpkin for cheaper than building/buying a new tank

[FAKKY]

Looked into the axle thing a while back. As I can probably get an axle for $150 to combine the two and shorten to center the pinion. BUt when adding in welding and time (most guys wont touch it) ..... didnt look much better - but again a good idea.

I mocked up a trapeziod tank (10x10" at trans end and 9"x9" at diff end) and confirmed issue is the crossmember clearance ..... I'll have to "notch" two 6 inch wide sections on the top of the tank for it to sit more flush to frame.

[dsraven]

if you get a buck made like that you could fab your own tank from cold rolled sheet, fab some end caps and have a shop weld it up for you and do a pressure test. install a few baffles or something to keep the fuel where you need it or grab a fuel system from a scrap tank that has the "well" for the pump to sit in and factor that in along with the flange for the sending unit/pump. or go with a frame mounted pump.
you could swap your explorer 8.8 for a mustang 8.8 for a centered center section. somebody would be tickled to buy your old one set up for the task force, maybe.

found this info on the net, if that interests you.

79-93 Mustangs use a 57 inch wide rear axle. 94-98 Mustangs use a 58.5 inch wide rear axle. 99 and newer Mustangs use a 59 7/8 inch wide rear axle. Lincoln Mark7 LSC, SVO Mustang and Fox Body Saleens use a 59.5 inch wide rear axle.

https://lmr.com/products/mustang-axle-guide


just a few ideas to ponder and confuse the heck outta ya, lol.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

if you get a buck made like that you could fab your own tank from cold rolled sheet, fab some end caps and have a shop weld it up for you and do a pressure test. install a few baffles or something to keep the fuel where you need it or grab a fuel system from a scrap tank that has the "well" for the pump to sit in and factor that in along with the flange for the sending unit/pump. or go with a frame mounted pump.
you could swap your explorer 8.8 for a mustang 8.8 for a centered center section. somebody would be tickled to buy your old one set up for the task force, maybe.

found this info on the net, if that interests you.

79-93 Mustangs use a 57 inch wide rear axle. 94-98 Mustangs use a 58.5 inch wide rear axle. 99 and newer Mustangs use a 59 7/8 inch wide rear axle. Lincoln Mark7 LSC, SVO Mustang and Fox Body Saleens use a 59.5 inch wide rear axle.

https://lmr.com/products/mustang-axle-guide


just a few ideas to ponder and confuse the heck outta ya, lol.

No that's great - appreciate it - really.
I think Im sold on just doing the custom tank to get it where I want on the frame rail but inside. Axles are harder to get around here than they should be - at least with the fact I have no truck (borrow neighbors) and no time except for weekends. I emailed/called a few but not much luck on anything close. They do pop up from time to time on CL. If I had known the offset would have caused this issue - would have gone with a regular centered 8.8. Was just after the 31 splined shafts and the 3.73 gears :P

Now just deciding on getting someone to weld it up for me or do it myself I'll probably have some guy do it though.

So that leads onto fuel accessories. This is what I think I need ...... missing anything or anything else recommended .... there are SO many choices.

PUMP
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tnk-pa-4

SENDER
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...-gml?rrec=true
or
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cin-sn38t10

NPT to -6AN fittings from fuel pump to lines
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/icb-an816-06-04a



Fitting to Fuel Rail
https://www.amazon.com/Russell-64085...ZH131F345EK7NK


Fuel Hose 6an {3/8}

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230620?rrec=true
or
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...8aAgmIEALw_wcB

Fuel Filter/Regulator
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...YaAl-4EALw_wcB

[FAKKY]

Well ... final tank mockup ???

[FAKKY]

Basically as it is right now its

57"(l) x10.75" (d) x 10"(w) at front and 9"(w) at rear ~ 25 gallons

But need to remove the two frame notchouts (~ 10"[w]x6.5[l]x5"(d) ~ 650 cubic inches or call it 3 gallons. So a 22 Gallon tank as it stands.

Really pushing the boundary of depth to ground clearance as well as its tucked right up behind trans crossmember as well as rear axle.

Some other dimensions and sizing to play around with

[dsraven]

if pushing the limits on ground clearance maybe think about a skid plate or skid rails under it. better to bend a skid plate or rail than cut a slash in the gas tank.
what have you got for room behind the axle? possibly a tank from another vehicle, like an S10 blaser or something would fit back there and fill from the side?

here is a thread for 55-59 trucks talking about options

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=574762

[FAKKY]

Thanks dsraven.

Yes I totally understand why most people put the tank in rear now....... problem for me is wife really wanted to keep the spare tire in rear and not have to carry it inside the truck.

So then it mean tank in rear and tire on back bumper
or
Custom tank.

Coin flip ........ but for now this should work. I like the idea of the skid plate I might do that as well as shorten from 10 3/4 deep to 10" even.

[FAKKY]

[FAKKY]

Anyone got a thread link to running brakes - how they did it.
Looking for a good one

[dsraven]

are you talking about the service brakes or emergency/park brakes? if service brakes,do you want the whole thing from frame mounted booster, residual valves, proportioning valve, through to brake hoses and how the lines were run along the frame? are you thinking vac booster, hydro booster, stock linkage and single master cylinder or stock linkage and tandem master cylinder (non power brakes is what I mean by stock linkage, single versus tandem is the master cylinder, stock would be single system so all the brakes run off one circuit. those went out in the 60's due to safety reasons but some still run them to be stock), stock trans cross member or something different (if going with power booster it may make a difference if you run a manual gear box and a different cross member). firewall mounted booster would also make a difference as far as residual valves etc.

just a bit more info required as to what your plans are that's all.
stock master cylinder or tandem (upgraded for safety but can still use stock drum brakes if that's what you want)
power brakes or non power brakes
frame mounted or firewall mounted booster or master cylinder set up
drum brakes all around, like stock, or upgraded disc front drum rear or disc disc
stock front axle or ifs (ifs style and donor car or ifs manufacturer would help)
stock engine and trans or something different

that will give us a start

pics, of course, would be good. yes, we could go through your build thread and other posts but that is time consuming on our end. you know we all live for pics of somebody else's rig. we get ideas and also can spot things you have maybe missed that will give grief later on.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

pics, of course, would be good. yes, we could go through your build thread and other posts but that is time consuming on our end. you know we all live for pics of somebody else's rig. we get ideas and also can spot things you have maybe missed that will give grief later on.

Good deal And udnerstood and appreciated.

Heres a few pics.

Dakota IFS up front.
8.8 Explorer in rearl
MC from a chevy van I think from memory.

Really just never done anything with brakes before apart from fluid change and service with brake pads/rotors etc.

So .... stuff like the right way to route ..... to allow for travel ..... and route .... and venting ......

Soft lines to hard lines connections.

Testing.

Was just looking for a thread that maybe had a good overall shwoing of steps taken

PICS.

[FAKKY]

Parts.
3/16 copper-nickle.

[dsraven]

nice pics, that explains a lot for those who see your truck for the first time. looks like you have a start with the tools. the bending pliers will tend to kink the line if youre not careful. i use them for close to fittings only when i can't get the other style to fit. there are a few videos showing the tubing bending theories. try a few flares on scrap line till you are confident you have it down to a science. here is a common bender for smooth bends in the open areas of the tubing that allow the tool to fit in.

https://www.eastwood.com/tubing-bend...liers-kit.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulc6tiFX6H0

with your set up it is common to attach the prop valve under the master cyl just for ease of running the lines. it could be on the frame out of site though. an adjustable prop valve is nice but once set it is forgotten about unless there are problems or changes made to the system. just ensure the master cyl is one for a disc disc set up as well. a residual valve may be pressed into the master on the drum brake port otherwise and that will give you grief unless it is removed. not sure what the master came from.

have you checked your pinion angle and compared to the trans output? it looks like it is pointing downward a lot. could be the pic./ pinion angle should be equal but opposite to the trans output within a degree or otherwise you are asking for vibration especially with the offset diff center section.