64' K10 Project Long Bed

[_mg]

Les, I am enjoying watching your progress, especially since I have been too busy to work on mine. Thanks for the great pictures and updates.

Mike

[aotte1]

MG,

You are welcome, thanks for the complement, trying to share what I find on this '64, along with the fun of rebuilding.

Sure you will get yours going soon, have slow times too. This winter was slow for me.

Les

[aotte1]

Continuing Rockwell T221 Transfer Case Stuff

From GM '63 service manual the capacity for the T221 is 2 1/2 quarts wo/PTO and 3 quarts w/PTO of 90 wt. standard grease. Would use the higher quality available today. Using "Wolf" brand for big trucks.


Looking at the TC for how Rockwell painted it, from this one, appears they painted the whole unit as it was shipped. One question is, how much of the shift controls was provided by Rockwell? Still plan to look at the parts not yet painted in photos below, to see if any redish paint is visible. On the cast parts is easy as the pores show the paint. What is painted red showed the original color. The photos below show a little different color per the camera light, first two outside, third inside.

The third photo shows new cushions for the frame cross member mount, left side and old/ original cushions for the outside frame rail mount, right side. Forth and fifth photos, closeup of the bracket that attaches TC to the frame cross member.

[aotte1]

Transfer case attached to the frame cross member with bracket shown above. The bracket is under frame cross member center right in first photo, two bolts attach it. Second, third, and forth photo show the other side, where it is bolted to the face of cross member, along with emergency brake controls. Last photo more clearly shows part of the emergency brake levers, that attach with the two frame/bracket bolts too.

[aotte1]

The bracket that attaches the TC to the frame rail. Used the engine hoist to lift the TC into position on the frame.

The last photo shows the original sleeve that goes inside the two cushions on the left and the new sleeve on the right that came with the new cushions. These are the cushions that attach the TC to the frame rail. The new sleeve is longer and extends beyond the thickness of the cushions. If installed this way the cushions would not be in compression, rather loose on the sleeve. This is a simplification of this connection. Shortened the new sleeves to match the originals, and therefor the cushions are installed in compression.

[61K10]

Les--I had to do something to mine also, just can't remember. Didn't take any pics lol! I might of added some #8 washers that fit over the sleeves and i know i used new bigger od bolts. I responded to your Q in my thread. will send a side pic of my tk to you here later today.

kimble

[61K10]

Les--here's a pic of my tk. I have about 60# in the rear of the bed, not enough to move the springs i would think.

Still working on my clutch adj. just doesn't want to work correctly. will bleed it one more time.

[aotte1]

Kimble,

Thanks for the photo of your TK, the ride height looks very nice. If not a problem, can you provide your "step height", top of door sill with door open.

Thanks,
Les

[aotte1]

Ride Height

Starting to think about the ride height of truck when done. Doing some preliminary measurements and comparing them to data from GM Heritage Center, vehicle kits for year '61 to '66. Found information in diagrams included in the above kits. However, certain measurement were not clear exactly where they were on the truck.
The kit shows an illustration dimension of "M" from ground to ??? Bottom of door, or door bottom opening?
So I asked Keith Seymore a member here with lots of Knowledge, what is the upper reference point for "M"? Or what typically does does GM use. Keith works for GM. His reply is

"["M" is the "step height"; so it would be the top of the door sill with the door open
We usually set the trim height based on chassis data, specifically "B" and "Z" heights (which are a measure of the nominal suspension position to the bump stops).]"

Note: not all measurement are included in all year kits, so used different years to get all measurements.

Will post measurements from "kits" next.

[61K10]

Les--driver side is 24 3/4" and pas side is 25" to top of rocker panel (door sill). both rockers were replaced. difference could be old springs, who knows.

kimble

[aotte1]

Ride height dimensions from GM Hetitage Center Vehicle Kits. Please see kits for drawing of truck that includes diagram dimension. A couple are below. The dimensions are labeled with letters.

"M" is step height, top of door sill, with door open:
Model K1434 is 24.22" at curb weight;
Model K1434 with max GVW options is 25.12 curb, and 23.87 loaded; and
Model K 3/4 ton max options is 26.12
Model K 1534 with max GVW options at curb is 24.81, and 23.87 loaded.


"N" top cab
'64 K1534 with max GVW options, curb is 77.95
'66 K10 is 77.51"; and
'66 K 20 is 78.41"

"P"is axle ground clearance
'64 K 1534 is 8" front and 8" rear curb and base, with max GVW options is 8.9" for front and 8.6 rear.

Tires, base are 6.70x15s, max GVW are 7.0x 17.5

Their are lots of other dimensions, not all are listed in each year kit, however, looking at different years you can get different ones.

Les

[aotte1]

Kimble,

Thanks for the step height "M" measurements for you truck. Also trying to interpret what Keith said GM uses for "M". Thinking either top or bottom of the door gasket, this would be considered the top of the sill.

Les

[61K10]

Les, that would add some to my measurement. How tall is a 6-70-15 tire compared to my 215-85-16? A lot of variables here. May i ask why you are interested in these measurements?

kimble

[aotte1]

Kimble,

The 6.70x15s are in the range of 28.5 to 29.0" tall, and the Toyo 215x85x16 is listed at 30.7"
Also, the 7.0x17.5 is maybe in the range 32 to 33" tall, an estimate; this is the tire GM used for max GVW option.

Interest is to get my ride height close to stock or an inch or 2 taller, while apart and easier to change now, if needed. Want to look stockish like yours. The front springs were stock, however, the rears were modified with different leafs added. Fronts were rebuilt by local spring company,,and rears are being replaced with originals from Chris- Gen III.

Right now my "M" step height is about 29", with out engine/ trans and body. Measured to bottom of door gasket. My tires at 32.2" diameter add height to, about 1 1/2" over stock tires used for factory "step height". So stock tires takes it down to 27.5". Should be close to stock ride height when all done.

Les

[aotte1]

Did some trial sheet metal install while grandson here to help. We put the core support and right front fender/inner fender on to see how the 16x6' center BS wheels with 235x85x16 tire look in wheel wheel. Conclusion is going to modify wheels so they have a 4" back spacing. This will move each tire 1" more into the wheel well, to look more stock. The '79 axle moves each wheel out one inch. The six inch wheels and '79 axle together move each wheel centerline out a total of 1 1/2 inches. The bottom of the fender is pretty much in lie with the top of the wheel. Once trk is built it will be a little lower too. I have a set of five 16x5" original wheels from Captain Fab that will get original bias size tires in the future. These 235s are for my grandson driving the truck places. And they fit the dually trk too.

[RANDY COX]

WOW lookin good Les do you have a lift on there looks like the springs are arched up and not down... Me likes, I've been debating to get me a 4" lift I've always liked my trucks lifted, sometime another someone has added some extra springs to the front and rear...

[aotte1]

Randy,

Thanks for the support.
The springs on 60 to 66 K trucks are arched up more then the later ones. The hangers are different too. The springs look original, however, did have a spring shop recondition them. They maybe arched up to an 1" to 1 1/2" more then when they came off truck, however, not sure how much arch they lost over their 50 year life.

Also all the weight is off the front end, no body, engine, trans, etc. These trucks originally set higher, then the newer 4x4s. The front rear spring shackles do show a little more arch in front springs as it sits now, with all the weight on them, from completing build they may be back in original position?

These tires also lift it more then the factory stock 15s, without the heavy duty GVW options available for certain 60 to 66 K trucks. Over all these tire lift the truck around 2 inches higher then the standard 15 inch tires. These are about 32" vs 28" for the 15s.

Once it is all back together, the GM Heritage Center, vehical kits information , on ride height, top of cab height will show how close to stock height it is.

Agrees tall is good? The optional 17 and 19 inch wheels are really nice for TALL. Wish I had some of the 17s in 6 lug. Those with optional tires may have been up to 35" tall, as a factory option. They really increased the ground clearance.

The photos above are kind of an estimate, not sure how good the fender was placed, without the cab for alignment. Most interested in seeing that the tires are inside the fender. Going to move them in another inch.

Les

[dodgiesdad]

Just a quick comparison. My chassis settled almost 2" in the front between a bare chassis and when I put the motor and body on. that was measured at the front of the frame horns. I also had my springs arched 1" over stock when they where rebuilt for me. I have LOTS of room for the 33" tires I am running. Your truck looks good, I enjoy watching your progress.

[61K10]

Les--you might need the early caliper 71-78? my rotors are 1 1/4" and have a 7/16 thread for the hose threw bolt (banjo bolt) the 79 are metric 10mm? My calipers are 4045 and 4046 i think and were loaded.

kimble

[aotte1]

Kimble,

Thanks for information on your calipers. Which calipers I need maybe an issue for me. The Dana 44 front axle is a date coded '79. Their is some question as to what front axles K10s came with in '79, Dana 44 and/or 10 bolt. The new calipers are Delco 735 and 736. I am doing more research/measurements to see which version is needed, the 71-78 or 79-80? Delayed a little as my take-offs are at a friends who got the new ones for me. He is off racing at Bristol this weekend-NHRA Thunder Valley Nationals.

I will check the banjo bolt threads on my take-offs, to help clarify which calipers are needed- great suggestion!



Thanks,
Les

[61K10]

As far as the ft axle i thought the dana-44 was replaced in mid 77 with the 10-B. does your axle have the big bearing spindles and hubs?

kimble

[aotte1]

Kimble,

I think so, had to get new inner bearing and seal. The ones I originally purchased were to small. Not real familiar with Dana 44, will confirm.

The new calipers are metric, they maybe have an 1/8" of an inch clearance, for the rotor. With pads all the way retracted, the opening measures 1 5/8s"?????
This seems really tight.

On when they stopped using Dana 44s in K10, lots of discussion on the forum, several reports of them in '78s, and a few in early '79s. Would need more information to determine when they stopped. This one definitely had Dana gears dated '79, and came out of K10.

Les

[Captainfab]

Years ago my son had an original '79 GMC K1500 with a 12 bolt and a Dana 44. He later bought a '80 Chevy K20 that had a 14 bolt and a 10 bolt front diff.

[61K10]

wouldn't they both have the same caliper holder? My calipers didn't have a bunch of clearance when putting them over the disc if i remember right. And what capt said probably 1980 for the 10b.

[61K10]

Les--forgot to say, i ran all new brake lines as you have to split ft to rear anyway.