Starting my engine build

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by toolboxchev

Dear Mr. Turner,

This thread of yours my good man has turned into something of a monster, and I at best am here to open something up.

I would be of great suggestion to go ahead and pull that motor. Everyone here wants to see you win.

Its 12 pages long now and that stupid broken bolt is out. If I had it my way and knew of this site when I did my top end rebuild I may have walked a different road.

It will be more bloody knuckles, broken bolts and grief and agony, then in the end you will have the satisfaction of one rip snorting snotty torque nosed little beast.

The choice is yours, I was very happy in the end on my last garage shade tree ultra top notch industrious internet savvy rebuild.

I learn more every day, I aint selling it and will be doing it again.

I hear ya, the thing is, I don't have a engine picker or an engine stand, so, if I went so far as to purchase those things and pull the motor out, why not take the block to get cleaned and machined out to a 383 and have a fresh bottom end that's totally bad ass?

I'm all for pullin the pan and cleaning and installing a new gasket, but pulling the whole motor would get me so close to a "complete" rebuild, that I might as well do it ya know?

Here's what's keeping me from doing the bottom end, and tell me what you think about this. The motor HAD heads with 64cc chambers which is a good amount of compression. It also had that Lunati cam with 285 duration and .455 lift. When I tore it down the truck ran like a raped ape above 2000 rpm and we can all agree it would've been even faster with a stall, and not once did the truck EVER let out even a puff of smoke. It could sit for a month without starting or it could be driven every day for 3 months, babied or pushed hard, it never smoked. So the bottom end was handling that compression and cam just fine, and what I'm throwing at it now isn't a whole lot bigger or more harsh for wear and tear IMO. So that's my thinking.

Now, you take my thinking which is driven by excitement and a little impatience because I wanna start the thing and have my gratification, and then you throw in some wisdom from people like Grumpy and you who have been doing this for a long time, and hopefully we get a good solution

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Well ... Please don't take some old guys suggestions as being Negative, And I understand the "fun factor" of just jumping in and doing it come heck or high water be it as it may factor . My generation considered being "politically correct" as making a donation to your local political candidate .So if my comments come off as negative don't read them that way ...More so as just observations to try to help avoid potential pitfalls you don't need to endure learned from way too many years of turning wrenches for a living and having to do it once the right way to keep from going back and doing it all over again and loosing shop profits .So I guess it's just the old shop owner cringing as I read that pushes me to post like I was talking to one of the guys working in the shop . So indulge some suggestions but don't take them as in any way being Negative as much as trying to be informative .

As always I am glad you post here and value all the knowledge you have I just don't think I'm ready to push out the start-up date THAT far yet, that's a long time from now and I was hoping to break this cam in a week from now. But, it might sink in, I'll just have to weigh it all out

Thanks Grumpy

[Mrturner1]

Something I ran into last night when I put one head bolt in to hold the head in place, I couldn't tighten it down all the way because the socket wouldn't fit in the round machined out opening where the bolt goes in, if that makes sense. Also considering a new set of head bolts from Napa down the street. They have a full set in stock, and I'm wondering if I need washers? Maybe that would help get the socket in to tighten bolts down

[Mrturner1]

Now you guys have done it haha

[Mrturner1]

So short version is, that 2000 dollar short block isn't out of the budget, and I have been wanting to build a striker for a long time. I have a feeling that my bottom end is in good shape and I could continue with this build (after some cleaning as Grumpy stated) and be listening to this thing rumble in my driveway and tackling the stall issue and I think I could drive the heck out of it for at least a year and have a great time ( kids and Fiancé are missing the weekend drives to the lake in Dad's dumbly truck ) In the meantime, get an engine stand and picker, order that ATK 383 short block, and really take my time with it. When my motor quits, I think it'll be in the form of a piston ring or something non catastrophic (maybe wishful thinking lol) and I could then swap the heads, put it all together and have a 450/470 small block just waiting. And, during that year of driving current motor, address some of the suspension and brake insufficiencies and prep for the 383....that wasn't as short as I thought actually, short story long

[toolboxchev]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Something I ran into last night when I put one head bolt in to hold the head in place, I couldn't tighten it down all the way because the socket wouldn't fit in the round machined out opening where the bolt goes in, if that makes sense. Also considering a new set of head bolts from Napa down the street. They have a full set in stock, and I'm wondering if I need washers? Maybe that would help get the socket in to tighten bolts down

I can not recall if my stock setup used washers on the head bolts. I was just yesterday watching an engine build on YouTube with aftermarket parts using washers in bottom end. The manufacture recommended doing this to provide a more even torque. They even oiled the bolts and washers while doing this.

A good set of 6 point sockets will help. They even make sockets with thick and thin walls for those tight fitting areas, or needing the extra strength for high torque applications. Harbor Freight helps in this area if you going with budget minded simple applications like a SBC. I dug through a second hand tool shop bin for a set of deep well 6 and 12 point sockets and found a whole set of old Craftsmen Product for a buck a piece!


Napa sells grade 8 bolts in almost every 1/4 inch increment on those 3/8-16 thread used everywhere in the SBC. I found an intake manifold set, at another parts store for over 30 bucks, Fancy Chrome!

I ended up buying some standard grade 8 lengths from Napa for 6 bucks for the intake manifold.

Head bolts I would look at something higher end. Some of those videos on you tube are excellent, then there are those with those dang roll lock scotch brite guys grinding away under the shade tree. Metal is different than working with wood. In the wood industry it is well known how to cover up warped wood products, its the nature of the raw material.

Steel and Iron likes to be more exact in making it work for you.

[swamp rat]

I think you need to just stick with your original plan and see it thru, make sure its running correctly then see if your happy with the results. Just think what you would feel like if you bought the short block and something went wrong like valve interference and you damaged, valves push rods and pistons...

On my heads i ran into the same problem, my craftsman socket would not fit in the recessed machined area, i had a different socket that i inherited from my dad that had a thinner wall and it worked great.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

I think you need to just stick with your original plan and see it thru, make sure its running correctly then see if your happy with the results. Just think what you would feel like if you bought the short block and something went wrong like valve interference and you damaged, valves push rods and pistons...

On my heads i ran into the same problem, my craftsman socket would not fit in the recessed machined area, i had a different socket that i inherited from my dad that had a thinner wall and it worked great.

I'm leaning towards this as well. I think my bottom end is pretty solid and I know for a fact it's pretty fresh as it turns out PO was telling the truth when I bought it. Engine build #2 will be a nasty 383 though.

However I think Grumps is right about getting cleaned up. I don't think I'm gonna pull the whole motor, but I'm here now, why not pull the pan and do it right. I'd like to use my shiney new chrome timing cover anyway haha I know I know, this guy and his shiney parts, it's the kid in me that used to be amazed at car shows when I saw nice engine bays

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Any idea what's done to them? I almost don't wanna know haha with my luck they've been worked over to make 500 hp lol

If there was any work done on them. It wasn't very good. But nothing that would have made any difference. Looks like the intake valves have had a little "unshrouding" done to them. But that's about it.

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

I'm leaning towards this as well. I think my bottom end is pretty solid and I know for a fact it's pretty fresh as it turns out PO was telling the truth when I bought it. Engine build #2 will be a nasty 383 though.

However I think Grumps is right about getting cleaned up. I don't think I'm gonna pull the whole motor, but I'm here now, why not pull the pan and do it right. I'd like to use my shiney new chrome timing cover anyway haha I know I know, this guy and his shiney parts, it's the kid in me that used to be amazed at car shows when I saw nice engine bays

Funny thing is... I have agreed with GOM since the get go. I've just not posted as much.

It does seem to me that you're replacing parts with parts that are almost the exact same parts as the parts you pulled. Say that again 10 times fast!

However... ya gotta learn sometime. If this is your learning curve than so be it. It's you engine in your truck. I would have gone about it completely different. But, again... I ain't you.

The thread is a long one from all the self bumps from the OP. Which can seem excessive. But, he is getting the attention to the thread he does need to get the job done. I am just too damn lazy to continuously bump my own threads. More power to ya.

Gary

[GRX]

That ATK short block is a terrible idea. We all want to see you get this project up and running.

No need for washers on the head bolts. Ask yourself ... Did they have them before?

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by GRX

That ATK short block is a terrible idea. We all want to see you get this project up and running.

No need for washers on the head bolts. Ask yourself ... Did they have them before?

A 383 in the future is definite, but something catastrophic with a brand new short block would be terrible. What's the advantage in pullin the motor if I can just pull the pan and clean? Seems like the only reason to pull the motor would be to replace pistons or something in the short block

[davepl]

Yep, shortest path to successful completion I think. You want to get one under your belt and save that money for whatever will inevitably be wrong with this work, since it was your first rodeo.

[Mrturner1]

So I took the heads to back off, I installed them with just one head bolt to mock it up. The heads are coming back off the timing chain and gears are coming back off and I'm going to pull the cam and get some cleaning done, and I also need to put lube on the spots of the cam where the bearings ride. I intentionally left those without lube because I was advised to do so but I watch a couple videos and a couple of you guys have said otherwise so it's getting pulled out and lubed up. Oil pan is coming off now but I couldn't find a one-piece gasket so I just held off on buying one. Any tips I can get on what to clean and how to clean it and what to clean it with I greatly appreciate it. When I was running the tap in the block I stuffed all the cylinders with clean rags to keep debris out but is there a way to make sure the cylinders are free of debris? Maybe canned air like for cleaning the keyboard?

Thank guys Matt

[geezer#99]

When you're chasing threads on your block, put a little heavy grease on the tap to catch any debris.
For covering parts it's easy to use tin foil. Keeps em clean and easy to put on and take off.

[GRX]

Se sure *not* to get that thick Moly paste on the cam ways (where bearings reside). Use the bottle stuff for that.

For cleaning try a shop vac. Compressed air can force dirt into areas best left unsaid. before buttoning up, wipe the cylinder walls with a white rag soaked with brake clean. That will show any dirt you may have left behind.

[Mrturner1]

Also took the time this time around to get a small gear puller and take the old crank gear off, when I reassemble it both new Edelbrock gears will go on.

[toolboxchev]

Some other things to think about.

1. Pull the water jacket plugs in the bottom of the block. You can also pull the water jacket plugs, some are made of cheap zinc coated metal and will rust, cause problems in the future. Replace with quality brass.

2. Blow the water jackets out before assembly with air, covering and protecting critical areas.

A clean rebuild will bring productive results.

[GRX]

Good point about removing the lower drain plugs. Dirt settles down there and now is the time to make sure they clear. No way to get the engine properly flushed without opening them. My preference is to replace the hex plugs with heavy duty marine style petcocks. Usually have to order them through Mercruiser at a boat store so probably over kill at this point. Just thought I'd mention it since we are all on the same page as it were.

[88Stanger]

I've been following your build and I am impressed. You are taking this thing on, trying your hand at it and getting a lot of good advise from everyone on here. You have the choice to take the advice and use or not. I understand where you are coming from as far as not having the equipment to pull the engine out and do it. It is always nice to be able to remove the motor to do all the work, keep it all clean, check and verify everything, but to do that it takes $$ to be honest. the ability to borrow tools is helpful if possible but sometimes that is not. So, as of now, you are taking just about everything off, leaving you with a short block basically, block, pistons, rods and a crank. It really is too bad you could not just borrow a lift and stand and pull it out then do all these removals, checks and such. Either way, I hope the best for you. Remember, there are a lot of ways to "skin a cat" as they say, you decide your way.

[Mrturner1]

I got all the oil pan bolts out and knocked it loose with a rubber mallet, seems it's too big to get out though. The back won't drop low enough the clear the transmission. Does this mean I have to unbolt the motor mounts and jack up the engine?

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by 88Stanger

I've been following your build and I am impressed. You are taking this thing on, trying your hand at it and getting a lot of good advise from everyone on here. You have the choice to take the advice and use or not. I understand where you are coming from as far as not having the equipment to pull the engine out and do it. It is always nice to be able to remove the motor to do all the work, keep it all clean, check and verify everything, but to do that it takes $$ to be honest. the ability to borrow tools is helpful if possible but sometimes that is not. So, as of now, you are taking just about everything off, leaving you with a short block basically, block, pistons, rods and a crank. It really is too bad you could not just borrow a lift and stand and pull it out then do all these removals, checks and such. Either way, I hope the best for you. Remember, there are a lot of ways to "skin a cat" as they say, you decide your way.

Thank you I really appreciate that. I'm giving it hell and it's been very much fun so far. I wouldn't regret it even if something terrible happened upon initial start up, but keep our fingers crossed that won't happen

[GRX]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

I got all the oil pan bolts out and knocked it loose with a rubber mallet, seems it's too big to get out though. The back won't drop low enough the clear the transmission. Does this mean I have to unbolt the motor mounts and jack up the engine?

Jack it up ... afraid so. You can work the one piece gasket in there though. One nice thing about the one piece Fel Pro unit. Plastic push tabs to hold it in place in the upside down position. Before purchase be sure to see the pan rail to timing cover seal distance image I posted earlier.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by GRX

Before buttoning up, wipe the cylinder walls with a white rag soaked with brake clean. That will show any dirt you may have left behind.

Don't know if it matters, but I was always told (and have seen) to use auto trans fluid to wipe the cylinder walls down. I'm afraid brake cleaner might clean it TOO well and cause it to flash rust after.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

I got all the oil pan bolts out and knocked it loose with a rubber mallet, seems it's too big to get out though. The back won't drop low enough the clear the transmission. Does this mean I have to unbolt the motor mounts and jack up the engine?

Yes

[Mrturner1]

Pretty productive day today. I pulled the heads back off, took the timing chain and gears off (now including the crank gear which I left on last time to re-use) and pulled the cam. I also removed all the oil pan bolts but to no avail. I'm gonna have to get a floor jack and some jack stands tomarrow. I talked to the two ladies that own this house, and convinced them to let me put a big garage door on the front of the barn, so after tomorrow I'll be able to put the truck inside the barn which will be AWESOME! On a slightly steep gravel driveway with no jack stands makes things hard to work on and there's no putting jack stands under the truck on gravel. This will also make pulling the transmission easier, and doing the new shocks and springs a breeze.

Tomarrow I'll get the oil pan out and clean it, but I'm wondering about cleaning the rest of the engine. Is there a process for cleaning it or is it impossible because the engine can't be turned upside down?