The Official John Lee Jr Thread

[Sharps40]

Thanks on the trans info....I'm not sure I want to mess with a 3 speed with a cobbled up gear splitter/OD unit, factory or no or a 4 speed like this one....(seems the gears are still pretty far apart even on the A-883 - 1st = 3.09 2nd = 1.67 3rd = 1.00 4th = 0.73)...all the research indicates the T-5 is damn near bolt in. I still have to talk with Mr. Langdon, prolly go with his suggestions....so far all his experience has been spot on for me and this truck.

As for the lean hole, I think I mighta removed much of it...hit the subject hills this AM on the ride to work and powered up them without haveing to press thru to WOT. Seems some of the tweaking and especially finalizing up the linkage adjustments this weekend helped a lot.

I still have the larger secondary idle jet on the way and I'll try it out....right now feels like i have great idle, great transition and main, so the primary is all in and right. On the secondary side, seems the transition is a bit weak untill reaching WOT which is just fine as I so far have not pushed this old truck past 80 mph.

We'll see if a closer match between primary and secondary idle jet sizes provides that additional pulling power I've been searching for in the middle range of 3rd gear.

[Sharps40]

An interesting evening. Last two eves were spent rapidly converting an old Pistol Grip Marlin 336 RC into a straight grip Marlin Marauder......all the while anxiously awaiting my new Weber Carb manual and a #65 secondary idle jet to make some tweaking time with John Lee.

Well, midway thru the conversion tonight, the lil brown truck (many of these used to run chevy 292 motors!) arrived with two boxes. One from Weber Carbs direct....my new jet was in the box and I stuffed it in the secondary barrel of the carb, test ride up the hill tomorrow to see if 2300 to WOT is any stronger.

But instead of a weber carb manual I got a Weber 32/36 DGEV/DGAV rebuild kit....now I got two of em...so, if ya need a 32/36 rebuild kit, holler, I gotta spare I can spare for less than new cost. Now, good company that Weber Carbs Direct, I called em. They said, keep the rebuild kit, parts guy musta been workin with his eyes closed and they'll have me a Weber Carb Manual on the way tomorrow first thing. Happy Joy. Been anxious to read and see if I been doin it right!

In the other box, very important stuff for the cab and hood. Been ridin 3 months now w/no glove box, the original crumbled to dust. So, LMC to the rescue and I installed a nice fitting new glove box and new door bumpers in about 10 minutes.

And out front, my scruffy broken faded fogged original running lamp lenses got replaced with spanky new clear yellow lenses and new foamy gasket thingies under the lenses. Very nice. Ya can see the turn signals now!!!!

[Sharps40]

Nice ride in. Kinda played with the secondary from 2300 rpm and up on the long straight stretches.....John Lee pulls better on the secondary (new mix jet) when I crack the secondary plate. I can feel it come in and its strong and fast. On a couple passes the bouncing needle was up in the 90+ mph range and we got there without much hesitation from 45 mph in third. There is still some snot on the top end and I think a better driver would punch 100 in John Lee without issue. As for me, I eased off both times and let the suspension recompress slow and even as we coasted back down into the 65 mph range.

And them hills that had me flustered on the lean hole in the secondary? I need to find some steeper and longer hills. It seems that we just bring on the secondary and the new slightly richer mixture pulls pretty well from 45 mph and up in third.

[Sharps40]

And, the new glove box works GREAT!!!

[shok]

So how would you say that weber is out of the box?
At some point my stock carb will need to go but the truck is only driven very little and just locally and its flatland, so it won't get the kind of testing you are giving to your truck to figure out optimum jetting.

[Sharps40]

Out of the box it started, idled smoother than I'd ever seen one of these early motors idle....hot restarts were perfect with no kick of the gas pedal and got 15ish mpg. I think you need the HEI to max it out...an hei, not a points replacement or points only spark maker.

Very slight hesitation transitioning from main to secondary which was cured with basic tuneing and a couple initial jet changes.

Its worth the effort to set it up. I've been working hard on the tune cause I'm here at 497 ft elevation and flat land...May 2014 may well see us driving to 13000 feet and heavy grades. I don't want to find out my flat land tune won't get up a hill!

If this trip works out, John Lee could well become our Retirement Touring Machine.

Contact K98AL too, he just put one on his 235...minimal jet changes and he seems happy and pulling 17ish mpg. His truck is a daily driver too. Perhaps he has additional insights.

[shok]

Ok pretty cool, sounds like I will see an improvement with that carb with little effort then, and when the rest of its done and it gets used more then there will be room for improvement.

I'm sure the stocker could benefit from tuning also but I've never been much into tuning the stock stuff when I can tune a shiney performance piece

[Sharps40]

Well, a good I6 with HEI, free flowing exhaust and a good fuel system is a pretty shiney performance piece. Worth the tune.

The way the truck throws itself around on the primary barrel is pretty suprizing. Can't wait to get a modern trans in there really take advantage of its new found performance capability.

It ain't JAFSB, Its More!!!!

[K98AL]

Like Sharps said, I just added the Weber to my 235. I already had HEI - the Weber ran good out of the box, but GET LINKAGE RIGHT first!
After that, I played musical jets, following Tom Langdon's and Sharps' advice. I screwed around for a while trying to get idle slowed - found out I was sucking air around intake manifold. Got that solved, started getting 17+ MPG, with great performance.
I gave away my Rochester, and all associated parts. I love the Weber!

[Sharps40]

Well now, sounds like someone got hosed.....(woops, I mean blessed with a rochester)!!!! Gave away the Rochester! Thats funny there, I don't care who ya are!!!

[shok]

Yes I want to modernize the ignition for sure, don't know if I want to go with an HEI since I read how you needed the charging system upgrade. Maybe a Pertronix or just a simple old MSD box.

This reminds me of the VW world, I fought old abused stock air-cooled VW carbs for so long. Then finally I tried a Weber knockoff dual setup and with out of the box jetting it was like a different car. I've sworn off stock carburetion for those cars.

[Sharps40]

Well, for the price of the hei, $125 w/plugs and wires from Langdon and it has the right soft spring in the can for the engines total advance curve....I'd not pork around with a pertronics. It seems a half ass solution....pointless breaker on an old worn dizzy. Enough folks I talked with find them at least troublesome since the pertronics install is easy but the dizzy rebuild often never gets done (I think because it seems harder to do so fingers get crossed for the majic of the bolt in part). But, many run them with great success. I however like the ability to get a fix off the shelf when out on a road. Can't always do that if yer runnin proprietary hot rod parts. Even the weber is relatively easy on the road, it was run on pintos, rabbits, etc, etc so lil fixer stuff ain't hard to find locally.

[shok]

Yeah I see what you are saying, but I have to figure in the cost of the charging system change to support the HEI also. I don't know what the modern pertronix kits are like, but in the old days it was easy enough to revert to points on the side of the road if it failed, which is okay if you are like me and carry tons of spares. I've read with an MSD box te old points last longer which is nice. Of course watch my charging system take a dump next week and this will have been a waste of time
Sorry if i am sidetracking your thread.

[Sharps40]

You ain't side tracking. Upgrade to a 10SI or 12SI is almost a must anyway, regardless of ignition.

Not just reliability but it provides safety options like being able to power Halogen or more powerful lighting. It prevents voltage spikes, ensures a stable and level and consistent power source for ignitions of any type/vintage. And, it'll power that mongo stereo ya always wanted and still keep the battery jazzed up.

[shok]

Do you have an opinion on one wire set ups versus stock type wiring?

[tincan1966]

Just to throw in some food for thought-
BEFORE you jump off and buy an alternator, any alternator, you do need to figure out what you're load on the charging system is going to be.
For example: halogen headlight, stereo, etc. If you want to add a MSD control box, you'll need to step up the power, from the current external regulator type, as the are very reliable with the proper voltage supply- not so much if not installed incorrectly.

An average application, would benefit from a 10 or 12 SI alternator with about a 60 amp charge rate. Unless you're going to be blasting 1000watts of stereo power while idling around town with the A/C on, you'll be just fine.

One wire alternators are great for ease of installation, and we've installed a lot of them.
Again for reliability and ease of service, I would pick something you can get off about any parts store shelf. A mid to late 70's,80's Camaro, Caprice, pickup, etc application are about the most popular.

Hope this helps you a bit.

[Sharps40]

+1 on what tincan says and I like stock type wiring harness with a wrap it and forget it black electrical tape wrap.

I went with the 68 to 72ish amp 12SI and lightly modded the case to fit/align the pully - its in this thread. About all the amps I'd ever need + some extra capacity and the 12SI has the better fan and air flow thru it for longevity.

I been thinkin about getting my tape from tincan, I think he offers bulk discounts!

[shok]

Originally Posted by tincan1966

Just to throw in some food for thought-
BEFORE you jump off and buy an alternator, any alternator, you do need to figure out what you're load on the charging system is going to be.
For example: halogen headlight, stereo, etc. If you want to add a MSD control box, you'll need to step up the power, from the current external regulator type, as the are very reliable with the proper voltage supply- not so much if not installed incorrectly.

An average application, would benefit from a 10 or 12 SI alternator with about a 60 amp charge rate. Unless you're going to be blasting 1000watts of stereo power while idling around town with the A/C on, you'll be just fine.

One wire alternators are great for ease of installation, and we've installed a lot of them.
Again for reliability and ease of service, I would pick something you can get off about any parts store shelf. A mid to late 70's,80's Camaro, Caprice, pickup, etc application are about the most popular.

Hope this helps you a bit.

Maybe one day I would put a stereo, no amp or anything extra, I kind of just like hearing the truck itself when I drive it. If anything I might go to an electric radiator fan, no plans to change lighting. If I do an alt change then I would also go with an HEI setup like Sharps. So the load demands are pretty low.
If a 1 wire alt will do the job with an HEI then I'd go with that. I think Sharp has convinced me to add these upgrades to the to-do list.

If I had a charging system failure I could probably still make it home easily enough since I don't really take this truck any further than 10 miles away and summit delivers quickly.

[tincan1966]

Originally Posted by shok

Maybe one day I would put a stereo, no amp or anything extra, I kind of just like hearing the truck itself when I drive it. If anything I might go to an electric radiator fan, no plans to change lighting. If I do an alt change then I would also go with an HEI setup like Sharps. So the load demands are pretty low.
If a 1 wire alt will do the job with an HEI then I'd go with that. I think Sharp has convinced me to add these upgrades to the to-do list.

If I had a charging system failure I could probably still make it home easily enough since I don't really take this truck any further than 10 miles away and summit delivers quickly.

If you don't/won't drive it farther than 10 miles, why change anything at all?

[shok]

Originally Posted by tincan1966

If you don't/won't drive it farther than 10 miles, why change anything at all?

Good question:

1. Above all else forget about logic I like to tinker and change things, if this truck was in perfect condition with an all MSD ignition system I'd think "hrmmm, maybe a Mallory ignition would be cool to put on this?"
2. But since it runs far from perfect I want to make it better with some upgraded tech. This thread has been a very nice example of doing that.
3. I have no plans for far drives, but it would be nice to know I can in a pinch.

I went back and read the post with the alt install again and just looked up the part number from the box, good bang for the buck!

[Sharps40]

Yep,,,,hard part of the alternator swap was filing down the lil tit to line up the pullies so the belt runs true. I got mine pretty spanky close and no noise and no glazed frayed belt. Pretty happy with it. Of all three electrical mods (halogen on relays, dizzy and alternator) I'd have to say the halogen on relays is the best for safety. I can see! And I can be Seen.

[Sharps40]

Took a long ride today, down the road a good ways to Wadesboro NC to rescue a Marlin 336 SC that had been chopped a bit and languishing as a truck gun...Got it, spiffed it up this evening and ready to test fire it in the morning.

But, finishing out a tank of gas, half with the new larger #65 secondary idle jet and put in a new tank after breakfast in Wadesboro. Down Rt 1 we went thru Aberdeen to Rockingham.

At the speedway, (Yep, I got NASCAR within 50 miles!) there was an amazing grunt from under the hood and great balls of fire poured outta the pipe and the front wheels came up off the ground and John Lee Growled it out burnin up pavement by the speedway and drag strip....must have something to do with the nitro fumes in the area, truck never did that before!!! GoodWife was impressed, wants to bring her Jeep down for an injection of racetrack muscle!

Anyway, we hung a left at Rockingham and west bound on 74 to our link up in Wadesboro. After pickin up the rifle we had breakfast and topped off the fuel tank....18.2 MPG with the current settings....that's combined city/highway on this tank. Nice.

We then went the back roads and hills up Alt 220 to Candor NC, out east along 211 to West End NC and then 73 and 15 back home. Fun, plenty of hills and no lean hole. Some of the hills were long enough to actually start on top of the main and work the secondary smoothly all the way up. Pulls and pulls and pulls.

A good day for a ride. Guess we should plan that first mountain test ride with a fall trip into Cherokee and out across the Cherohala Skyway to Tellico Plains TN.

[Sharps40]

Okay, so I ordered Haynes Techbook, Weber Carburetor Manual....got it today...read it today. Here's my assessment.

Except for some breakdown photos and good written descriptions of various component/system functions ...

1. I am doubting it would be of significant help in the rebuild of any Weber Carb...not enough detailed pics for this old brain.

2. Ain't nothing in here on tuning beyond the basics you can get free from Weber Direct, RedLine. I got more/better and directly applicable advice from Mr. Langdon at Stovebolt Engine Company since he sold me the carb and continues to provide great service after the sale.

3. Ain't nothing in here that would help ya debug linkage, issues of power/stall/bog/hesitation, power generation, fuel mileage or lack of, timing settings, etc. Troubleshooting guides are available free from Weber Direct, Redline, Mr. Langdon, etc.

In conclusion, Don't bother spendin the money less ya can get it for 42 cents on e-flay or a well thumbed copy at a yard sale or flea market.

My copy is sitting on the shelf, pretty blue, among the various Motors Manuals and 1930s vintage Motor Age magazines....just in case I ever need a pic to figure out a part. Doubt it though, once tuned, it looks like the Weber 32/36 is one of them that sits on a manifold for a long time before it needs any rework.

[Old Bleu]

Rich, I was in Detroit a couple of weeks ago to pick up a cousin at the airport for a family reunion. I ran up to Utica (northeast Detroit) and picked up a T5 and the last mini HEI from Tom Langdon. He haa a nice shop setup at his home, and wish I'd had more time to visit with him. I got a world class T5 from an S10, but he also had a world class from a Camaro sitting in the shop. It was a tough choice, but I opted for the S10 unit. Tom cut a short length off the end of the input shaft, and told me to compensate for that, I'd need to wallow out the splines on the back side of the clutch disk a bit so it releases completely. As I understand it, all I will need is the yoke for the output end and to get the stock drive shaft shortened. Tom was leaving the next day to take the grandkids to Florida, so he was busy trying to get stuff ready before leaving. The guy is a walking encyclopedia on these trucks. I wish we'd had more time!

Tim

[Sharps40]

Old Bleu, I'm not sure I follow wallow out the splines.....file them down so the thickness of the splined hub is less or taper the inside diameter of the spline shaft hole to make it larger in diameter? Pics?

I gotta call Tom...need to anyway...18.9 mpg on this tank of fuel, city/highway. Woo Hoo! Over 18 mpg is getting to be the pretty regular reading. A T5 could add from 3 to 5 mpg to that measure.

Now, tonight I finally got the heat riser freed up...it was rusted FULL OPEN....several hot and cold soaks with WD40 and tapping with a small SmasherWacker and finally, gentle persuasion with vice grips on the shaft freed it up. Still sticky and the spring on the backside is long rusted away but at least here in central NC I can run this dude full closed and not have cold drivability issues with an electric choke.

Ya see, I been havin a lil problem with percolation on shut down during the hottest days of the summer....just a lil bit boilin and barfin out and mostly sittin in the intake log. Never enough to cause hot start issues but it sure means I don't need full blast manifold heat mosta the time!!!!

I figure to attack the problem a step at a time...first to close the manifold heat riser. Second to relocate the metal fuel filter as it's prolly acting as a heat sink and slightly increasing line pressure. Third would be to insulate the carb with a Weber heat sink spacer and last would be to put a heat shield between the manifold and fuel bowl. I'm expectin that runnin mosta the heat down and out the pipe instead of up on to the base of the intake will solve this minor problem on all but the Black Rock Desert days of summer.