Building your own control arms

[LONGHAIR]

I still wouldn't make them for someone else..........Say that they are dammaged in the crash, not the cause of the crash. Do you want to have to defend this? Can it be proven either way? Do you really want to find out?
It is a sue happy society, I wouldn't put myself in that.

[PrerunnerRob]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

I still wouldn't make them for someone else..........Say that they are dammaged in the crash, not the cause of the crash. Do you want to have to defend this? Can it be proven either way? Do you really want to find out?
It is a sue happy society, I wouldn't put myself in that.

Thats what the "for off-road or show use only" clause is for when a customer signs their reciept. Keeps your butt covered!

[89 crew]

I think the main point that was missed earlier wasn't about your ability to weld or the quality of materials you are using. it was for your well being! We live in a world full of lawyers who are all looking for someone to sue. It doesn't matter if you build the part right, or wrong. A lawyer will look at them as another method to collect more money. This is why product liability insurance exists. I believe everyone was telling you to make sure your back is covered.

[RunninLo]

May I assume we're talking Max Fish of Bio Kustoms?
if so what I've seen of his work is extremely well engineered. And it looks cool 2.

Josh

[edflores]

max is a god in the mini world. too bad his prices dont meet the average mini truckers budget.

[pooz911]

I'm looking for someone to building me a set of lifted spindles for my 2wd Chevy truck. What area does Max live in??

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by RunninLo

May I assume we're talking Max Fish of Bio Kustoms?
if so what I've seen of his work is extremely well engineered. And it looks cool 2.

Josh

That is who I am talking about, yes. That is why I am perfectly secure to build my arms out of the fore-mentioned material from the first page, b/c I know max as tested it to its limits and back and wouldnt tell me or anyone to build something out of x material unless he knows it will not fail.

If you want spindles for your chevy, they make lifted spindles for 2 wd's out there, check some of the offroad companies. If you are serious about having Max do you a pair, goto streetsourcemag.com click on forums, then the 'ask max' section and ask him what he'd charge.

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by pooz911

I'm looking for someone to building me a set of lifted spindles for my 2wd Chevy truck. What area does Max live in??

I forgot to list where he is.. his shop is helmet, ca i think is how its spelled..

[pooz911]

Hemet is not too far away from where I am........Nobody makes lifted spindles for a 3/4 ton 2wd before 1992 or so.

[67Cowboy]

Ddd

[pooz911]

I would never buy anything from truckin or aim industries.. They have been a problem with customer service for years. I have been on the boards talking with people who have dealt with them and they are horrendous.

[Kevin45]

have no worries about being sued. Like I said, other sets of arms are doing just fine. Cant sue me over a product that I know wont fail.

You never know what fails and what doesn't when it comes to automotive products. That is why there is thousands of recalls on new vehicles every year. Firestone thought they were set until a few Fords rolled. Ford thought they had a good thing until a couple of Pintos got popped in the rear. And anytime anything is welded it stands a chance of cracking. And you can be sued over a product that YOU won't think will fail. Where I work there is extensive testing on every product that we make. And every once in a while something in the field will fail.

Kevin

[blazntn]

AIM and Chassis Tech have really stepped up their game. True their customer service has been lacking in the past. Matt runs their arms on his air dancer without any problems. I was actually going to run their arms on my truck. They offer upper and lowers for C-10's. But due to stipulations in the contract I backed out.

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by blazntn

AIM and Chassis Tech have really stepped up their game. True their customer service has been lacking in the past. Matt runs their arms on his air dancer without any problems. I was actually going to run their arms on my truck. They offer upper and lowers for C-10's. But due to stipulations in the contract I backed out.

Or so they say. A lot of the pictures and **** they use, are pics of other companies products.. see the picture of the s10 arms or whatever with the camber adjustment? FBI has that adjustment pat. now. a lot of their billet steering wheels are pictures straight from BAD's site.

dont look into their bull**** too deep, you'll need waders

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by Kevin45

You never know what fails and what doesn't when it comes to automotive products. That is why there is thousands of recalls on new vehicles every year. Firestone thought they were set until a few Fords rolled. Ford thought they had a good thing until a couple of Pintos got popped in the rear. And anytime anything is welded it stands a chance of cracking. And you can be sued over a product that YOU won't think will fail. Where I work there is extensive testing on every product that we make. And every once in a while something in the field will fail.

Kevin

Alright, i'm not a dumbass. Firestone built a crappy tire. Production of tires and arms are 2 completely different things.

Everything I build is sold according to state and local laws..which means, anyone with half a brain and those who arent, didnt read their laws. (which 99% state that **** we all use that arent factory must be for off road use).. anyways, its all for off road use, i thought you guys understood this, i surely didnt think i was talkn to a bunch of ppl on SSM who are 16 and retarded. Also my parts carry a lifetime guarantee on not breaking.. but with the off road use only statue that we all know.. you cant be sued if it breaks while its driving.. thus if it breaks.. send it back, i'll fix it.. will many things break? no, probably never. maybe something freaky, but i doubt it. same welder, same welding machine and same settings, if 1 doesnt break, not many will.

i'm new here, but not new to this world.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by Bagged Nissan

but with the off road use only statue that we all know.. you cant be sued if it breaks while its driving..

You may be certified at welding, but you're definitely not certified in civil law. One can be sued by anyone for anything. As for product liability, you do NOT waive your responsibility with a simple "for offroad use only" statements. The issue of product liability is that of reasonability of use. If you make an auto suspension part for "off road use," failure in an offroad scenario could very well put you in the liability hotseat.

[Kevin45]

Alright, i'm not a dumbass. Firestone built a crappy tire. Production of tires and arms are 2 completely different things.

Don't take me wrong. I am not calling you a dumbass. And yes there is a difference between a tire and a control arm. But there is not a difference between a product in general and a lawsuit. Just ask Mickey D's about the $6 mil settlement because some woman didn't know a hot cup of coffee was hot and stuck it between her legs. Just the other day on the news, some guy is sueing an 8 yreard old kid because of an accident on a ski slope. The older guy hurt his rotator cuff. $75thou suit at the moment but it will get larger as the publicity gets larger. So in esscence .....what I am saying is that you may very well make a damn great product and maybe it is the best out there with a lifetime guarantee. But don't ever let arrogance overshadow the possibility that there is not one person out there that cannot take you down the drain in a heartbeat. Because when it all comes down to a trial, it's nothing but a dog and pony show. Who has the most money to afford the better lawyer, that can convince the jury that something you did was in fact negligent. One miscrossed "T", one undotted "I" and they can nail you. I just hope that with your business, that you have talked to a lawyer in advance, and do in fact have insurance to cover a possible lawsuit no matter how large or small. Today, people want to sue for anything that happens. Tomorrow, if the economy gets worse, there will be more people setting people like you up to make their weekly wage.

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by Kevin45

Don't take me wrong. I am not calling you a dumbass. And yes there is a difference between a tire and a control arm. But there is not a difference between a product in general and a lawsuit. Just ask Mickey D's about the $6 mil settlement because some woman didn't know a hot cup of coffee was hot and stuck it between her legs. Just the other day on the news, some guy is sueing an 8 yreard old kid because of an accident on a ski slope. The older guy hurt his rotator cuff. $75thou suit at the moment but it will get larger as the publicity gets larger. So in esscence .....what I am saying is that you may very well make a damn great product and maybe it is the best out there with a lifetime guarantee. But don't ever let arrogance overshadow the possibility that there is not one person out there that cannot take you down the drain in a heartbeat. Because when it all comes down to a trial, it's nothing but a dog and pony show. Who has the most money to afford the better lawyer, that can convince the jury that something you did was in fact negligent. One miscrossed "T", one undotted "I" and they can nail you. I just hope that with your business, that you have talked to a lawyer in advance, and do in fact have insurance to cover a possible lawsuit no matter how large or small. Today, people want to sue for anything that happens. Tomorrow, if the economy gets worse, there will be more people setting people like you up to make their weekly wage.

I know what you're saying. My mom is an attorney and hear all kinds of stuff growing up. I just figured it was a general point that everyone understood that this stuff is for off road use. As is ART's products, etc. It is all for off road use only. I know it will see street use, if you have problems, just holler at me and i'll fix it if its my fault. That type of deal, ya know.

[Bagged Nissan]

Originally Posted by XXL

You may be certified at welding, but you're definitely not certified in civil law. One can be sued by anyone for anything. As for product liability, you do NOT waive your responsibility with a simple "for offroad use only" statements. The issue of product liability is that of reasonability of use. If you make an auto suspension part for "off road use," failure in an offroad scenario could very well put you in the liability hotseat.

That is true... but for off road use only puts you at liable if you're driving down the road and it breaks. Will anyone use my arms for a bagged application for an off road? no, i highly doubt it. If you abuse ANY product, its not the makers fault if it fails. i.e. if you bag your truck and you snap a ball joint, moog will give you the finger, you caused that failure. My parts work just fine for their intended use. does that mean bolt my arms up to a public trans bus someone is converting and hope it holds 20k lbs? no.

[jjk3]

No offense guys, but I was really hoping to see some info on "building your own control arms". It's nice to see that people are concerned with the legal aspect of this topic, but I think that "Bagged Nissan" understands what he's getting himself into. Can we please not beat a dead horse anymore. I just want to see more custom control arms. Thanks. bigchevy66

[BioMax]

^^^ Yeah I agree... ha ha.

[BioMax]

Okay, this is my first time using an HTML site. I'll try to keep my accidental posting to a minimum.

When building cotrol arms, the biggest thing is to minimize stress risers. If you don't know what a stress riser is, you probably should not be building and selling over the counter parts. I have seen material used to build "street" control arms that are out of material that is thicker than I would use on an off-road truck. I usually don't tell anyone not to use material that thick because it is best to be cautious. But if you ask me what I use, I will tell you what I use. I do not see a need for .250 wall arms or frame material, but I spend the extra time eliminating stress risers or designing around them.

As for welding to cast, it is completely safe as long as it is addressed properly. The liability that comes with welding to cast is no different than the liability associated with any other custom built suspension part. You build it to the best of your knowlege and hope that no one gets hurt. And BTW- the $1250 spindles are not the welded cast parts, but the full custom knuckles.

And that brings us to liability... You cannot sign your rights away for any reason. If you build a part that you don't think will live, you can't simply ask the customer to sign a waiver. If someone gets hurt, you are responsible. Even the "for off-road use only" that is so often used, you know as the person selling or building the part, that the part will be used on the street. And that's all that maters.

With all that having been said, if you have a specific question about how "I" build my arms, I will be happy to answer your questins.

[Kevin45]

I know it will see street use, if you have problems, just holler at me and i'll fix it if its my fault. That type of deal, ya know.

With all being said, it IS nice to see someone that still more or less soes business on a handshake. You don't get too much of that anymore. And in favor of Bagged and all the pics he posted. The products look better than my DJM drop control arms.

[67Cowboy]

Xxx

[Shane]

I don't give a damn if you built the Empire State Building, it becomes MY business when you put it on the road ... the same roads my family travels on.

P.S. Alan Keyes is an blooming idiot.