Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.

[69halfton]

mine had the exact same spongy feel as i mentioned before. i pulled the intake off, and held the two lifters (mine is converted to roller, so they are connected) and i could tell from simply pushing on them with my fingers that one of them is very loose when being compared to the other. could be related to oil, could be a bad batch of lifters, who knows. talk to your builder, mine bought me a new pair (the only two that were bad at the time) and let me install them myself.

remember, when setting the lash on a hydralic motor, my builder told me that you set to zero lash, then a half turn.

lifters aren't that big of a deal, i had mine all apart in my garage at home on my fourth period spare (70 mins) from school with my girlfriend distracting me

thats including the drive home from high school lol...

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

First off....$5k is not excessive if you get a pro builder on the case. Second, I feel he will stand behind it...sounds like a stand up guy so far.

DAS will ship your truck back to Cali for somewhere between $650-850...I know that's not the most desirable option, but your builder is going to want to get into that motor himself, he won't warrant work done by anyone else.

Anything can happen, even to brand new motors with brand new parts. IF you are really in the care of a good builder he might even compensate you for the shipping costs. Sounds like you have an open line of communication, so I doubt you'll have much trouble with getting it right.

I also agree that 5k is not a lot for the type of motor that I had built. In fact it should have cost a lot more and the heads that I have are worth a lot more than I paid for them. However due to my unique circumstances as I needed the engine built at such a strange time Over Xmas and the guy who owns the business ( the same man that built and tested my engine ) and I got along and still do very well, He used a set that they had machined for someine else and was going to have to machine them again for his customer that was not as time critical.

I was very keen to get away from the mexican crate or Crap engine that had been in it from the second owner and give my beast what it deserved as a build. I asked what engines that he could build for different prices and it was either a stroker or a very high spec 350 (I wanted at least 400hp and it says 350 custom deluxe on the side of it so in the spirit of keeping it sort of original a 350 it got).

Its such a shame that its not running but when it did on Monday last week after the oil was changed and timing checked and before this issue formed. This thing has some kick. Serious kick and with the headers and exhaust it has sounds amazing too.

I have just been reading up on oil and additives ETC. Always good to know what your up against.

I have no problem shipping it to him for repairs if necessary and I wish I had taken some photos of the shop. It was the stuff of dreams.

I am not nervous about weather or not it will get fixed just don't want to destroy it totally if its not already done. Hence Asking you guys what you think and learning as I go.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by 69halfton

mine had the exact same spongy feel as i mentioned before. i pulled the intake off, and held the two lifters (mine is converted to roller, so they are connected) and i could tell from simply pushing on them with my fingers that one of them is very loose when being compared to the other. could be related to oil, could be a bad batch of lifters, who knows. talk to your builder, mine bought me a new pair (the only two that were bad at the time) and let me install them myself.

remember, when setting the lash on a hydralic motor, my builder told me that you set to zero lash, then a half turn.

lifters aren't that big of a deal, i had mine all apart in my garage at home on my fourth period spare (70 mins) from school with my girlfriend distracting me

thats including the drive home from high school lol...

Thankyou for the advice, I think I might be lucky and it not be the cam. If it was the cam I would think I would have noticed something else happen in the 4000 miles that its been driven. It just did that 4000 miles very very quickly. Its not even a month since it was built. The oil being consumed is a different story.

Will know tomorrow what he thinks I should do.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by chevybuldr

sounds like the cam went bad to me. Can you have some body bump the motor over while you watch the rocker arm move. With all the problems with motor oils these days its just not uncommon thing to see.

They all move perfectly with the exception of that rocker that sits waiting for time to pass and not moving. I hope its crud in the oil from the move back to break in oil.

Fingers crossed.

[Pont406]

Did you cut open your oil filter yet? That will tell you everything you need to know.

[chevybuldr]

Originally Posted by gavotter333

They all move perfectly with the exception of that rocker that sits waiting for time to pass and not moving. I hope its crud in the oil from the move back to break in oil.

Fingers crossed.

you have a flat cam. Stop there. If he will warranty a flat cam then thats pretty good. Most wont.

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by chevybuldr

With all the problems with motor oils these days its just not uncommon thing to see.

I agree.
You said you used non detergent oil, I'm not sure if it has any zinc at all.
s/t

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Pont406

Did you cut open your oil filter yet? That will tell you everything you need to know.

Why am i looking for inside my oil filter specifically. Its only a week old. You think it will be full of shavings.

[69halfton]

you are looking for metal debris of any type. if you find some, then the lifter is only a result of something else going wrong.

there should be shavings in there instantly, not matter how old the filter is.

you really need to find out if there are shavings in the oil or not...that will be the tell-tale sign of major damage.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Sport/Truck

I agree.
You said you used non detergent oil, I'm not sure if it has any zinc at all.
s/t

The initial break in process was done at the machine shop and I have all the documentation from the components that were used. There is a brochure from compcams detailing the zinc additive treatment that was used for the initial break in that was done on a dyno. I would assume that this was done with the up most care however you are all right components do fail.

I am throwing darts at a board but can a cam wear out in 40 miles after 4000 were already put on it. All of this happened after the new oil was used. and the timing was changed. Was running like crap before this and burning oil but not misfiring and making horrid noises when you try to accelerate.

[texanidiot25]

What sort of oil were you buying during the trip? Brand-wise.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by 69halfton

you are looking for metal debris of any type. if you find some, then the lifter is only a result of something else going wrong.

there should be shavings in there instantly, not matter how old the filter is.

you really need to find out if there are shavings in the oil or not...that will be the tell-tale sign of major damage.

This I will attempt to do tomorrow. If I can get it up the road to the mechanics. I have a feeling that I am going to also have to put some very wierd combination of oil to get rid of the 30 weight oil. Ill follow what the builder says and if it explodes he can have it back to fix. I have done everything that he has instructed me to do and not deviated from his instructions. California has some great consumer laws and the engine is 3 weeks old.

If it can be broken it can be fixed also. After all its a very simple engine and there are literally millions of them ...

[88JRFAN]

I have heard and know of people using diesel oil when breaking new motors. Mainly because the new oil for gas motors don't have the right amount of additives. We have used it to break in new race motors. We have also used filter screens to catch the smaller pieces that the filter does not catch.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by texanidiot25

What sort of oil were you buying during the trip? Brand-wise.

Now this is a question that no one has yet asked. Other than the builder. I was trying to always buy the same oil but it was burning it at such a rate that it would have had a few brands in it. Penzoil and shell mostly i think. some of it was brought when I was really really tired and had been driving for 800 miles. I try to only use shell and chevron gas. Never arco and the rest of the dirty gunk that comes from the gulf of Mexico and Canadian sand oil. However I always pit in the same grade of oil.

Have to like the middle east for something.

You thinking its gunky oil build up as well. The suggestion today from the builder was that the new and old oils have formed crap that is stopping the lifter.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by 88JRFAN

I have heard and know of people using diesel oil when breaking new motors. Mainly because the new oil for gas motors don't have the right amount of additives. We have used it to break in new race motors. We have also used filter screens to catch the smaller pieces that the filter does not catch.

This is why it was changed back to the 30W ND oil. There might be some issues from the fact that the oil that was in the motor when I left Bakersfield left the motor pretty fast and was replaced by conventional oil. This might explain the still burning of the oil but not the other issues.

[texanidiot25]

I'd wonder if those oils messed the cam. Unless you had a roller cam (think I read you had flat tappet) it's know that modern off the shelf oils can wear the cam down at an unholy rate. For me, I'm tossing either royal purple or some diesel oil (after reading various online articles, it's my only way) to keep my truck going.

New oils don't have zinc which is needed on oldschool flat tappet camps for lubrication. It would make sense that a lobe is worn down on your bad valve from it.

Glad the engine builder is being very upstanding about it, and helping. Good to see guys like this still around.

[chevybuldr]

Diesel oils dont have the minerals in them anymore. Plus they also react at a different heat range compared to what a car needs. Either way the cam is flat and it needs to come out. I would not drive it anymore. That is very fine metal that is going thru that motor. I have seen cams go flat 30 minutes in and I have seen them go flat after 6 months.

I would not drive it anymore.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by texanidiot25

I'd wonder if those oils messed the cam. Unless you had a roller cam (think I read you had flat tappet) it's know that modern off the shelf oils can wear the cam down at an unholy rate. For me, I'm tossing either royal purple or some diesel oil (after reading various online articles, it's my only way) to keep my truck going.

New oils don't have zinc which is needed on oldschool flat tappet camps for lubrication. It would make sense that a lobe is worn down on your bad valve from it.

Glad the engine builder is being very upstanding about it, and helping. Good to see guys like this still around.

I agree and have been lucky even with the issues i am having. Really glad that I broke down in Bakersfield of all places otherwise it would have been shipped back to San Francisco and the place that built this engine, well there is no place like this in SF.

When all of this is resolved Ill be very happy to mention the name of who he is and the company. I have a feeling that he will do this properly and Machinists and not mechanics are a very much dieing breed. I grew up around the same type of shop as my father built and restored cars.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by chevybuldr

Diesel oils dont have the minerals in them anymore. Plus they also react at a different heat range compared to what a car needs. Either way the cam is flat and it needs to come out. I would not drive it anymore. That is very fine metal that is going thru that motor. I have seen cams go flat 30 minutes in and I have seen them go flat after 6 months.

I would not drive it anymore.

It aint going anywhere. It sounds horrible. Almost as bad as the motor that was running on 5 cylinders that it has replaced.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by chevybuldr

Diesel oils dont have the minerals in them anymore. Plus they also react at a different heat range compared to what a car needs. Either way the cam is flat and it needs to come out. I would not drive it anymore. That is very fine metal that is going thru that motor. I have seen cams go flat 30 minutes in and I have seen them go flat after 6 months.

I would not drive it anymore.

I have also just been reading the warranty card from comp cams. It would appear that there is warranty for 12 months. Who knows if its covered even if thats what it is. Perhaps I should have brought a new fuel injected chevy engine and had that installed.

Dont think so. Would ruined the adventure of it all.

[gavotter333]

This is the cam in the engine.

Xtreme Energy™, XE268H
Great for Street Machines, Better w/ 2000+ Stall
PART #12-242-2

[sflanagan]

I have read some of the answers and all seem like good ones!!! Rings and rocker arm adjustment was the first thing that came to mind for me...

You very well could of lost a lobe on your cam causing your rocker to fall out of adjustment, thus your clatter and loss of power.

Funny I read this post out of the blue, cause i'm new to the site, but ironiclly live in bakersfield!!

Anyway I can help I've lived hear for 20 years so I may know the builder..

[Gray Ghost]

The brand of oil should not have made the difference to break the parts. I very much doubt the cam could have gone south in the last 40 miles of a 4040 life. But that said stranger things have happened. Had buddy who went through four cams that all went flat in his new motor.

I doubt that is your problem though...sounds to me like a collapsed lifter at this point.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by sflanagan

I have read some of the answers and all seem like good ones!!! Rings and rocker arm adjustment was the first thing that came to mind for me...

You very well could of lost a lobe on your cam causing your rocker to fall out of adjustment, thus your clatter and loss of power.

Funny I read this post out of the blue, cause i'm new to the site, but ironiclly live in bakersfield!!

Anyway I can help I've lived hear for 20 years so I may know the builder..

Greetings,

Well Sean I am sure if you use your imagination you will know where I had the engine built. There are not to many shops like this in Bakersfield that specialize in race engines. I have been keeping the name out of this as its not at all relevant for the suggestions of the other forum members and If its a bad outcome its between my self and the shop. I truly believe that the guy that built this engine knows his stuff but wanted to throw it out there and get some other opinions about what it could be so I am more informed.

I have to say I have had a good experience in Bakersfield. Lived in SF and never had a reason to visit. When my motor blew up a fella from there stopped and helped me. I crawled the truck back to his place and he tried to fix the bent lifters and shot engine. Its people like that that make me love this country. The good ones still exist there just spaced out.

[1tigers]

The oil has to be going somewere.It has to be leaking or burning ,so there would have to be smoke or a puddle of oil if it is using at a rate of a qt. per 200 miles