Engine builder says to use valvoline 20w50

[truckster]

I have a friend who owns a machine shop and he builds engines for NHRA. He says he uses the Delo.

[my70chevyc10]

I work at the Kragens in walnut Ca an all my customers that race cars use an oil called ROTELLA its made for big rigs.They say it has all the good cemicals in it. It comes in a blue bottle or a white bottle an only comes in a 1gal jug. If anyone is in the walnut area just stop by an ask for John. Im at the corner of Amar an Nogales next to the Albertsons I close most days i work.

[Nachos82]

If someone has them, could they post the GM EOS part number.

[67shortie]

Here is more read on the Chevelle board I frequent

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243928

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by Nacho82

If someone has them, could they post the GM EOS part number.

I just go in to the local Chevy dealer's parts counter and ask for EOS Assembly Lube.

[IvelDesigns]

so what would you guys run in a stock '72 BBC? VR-1 20w50?

[lowbucktruck]

Originally Posted by IvelDesigns

so what would you guys run in a stock '72 BBC? VR-1 20w50?

Great thread, lots of good info here. Did someone respond to IvelDesigns? I am wondering about that as well, since I have a stock (not recently rebuilt, just freshened up) 402 big block in my truck. I usually use Castol in all my vehicles (my Toyota 4Runner likes it) but have used Valvoline 10w40 in my old '73 C20 with 350 small-block (GM Goodwrench motor).

Makes sense to me, to use a heavier weight oil in a big-block Chevy motor.

[BossHogg69]

fwiw, the guy that built the big block in my '69 said to use the Valvoline 20W-50 with a Delco filter, and that's what I've done. I drive it hard and it runs fine, doesn't use any oil at all. He also reminded me to let the motor warm up a bit when its cold out before 'gouging on it' (his words) as not to break the oil pump shaft off due to the thick oil... He runs Valvoline in his street driven '77 C10 with a 468, his 540 '67 Nova racecar and every other big block he has.

As for my '05, I only use Mobil 1 10W-30 and a mobil filter. I also had had a '92 chevy with a 350 in it. Used only Mobil 1 10W-30 in it, and drove the p*ss out of that truck for 250,000 miles. Never had to pull the valvecovers off. Just changed the oil every 5,000 and did lots of burnouts...

[special-K]

I`m Castrol all the way with narry a problem.I run 20/50w.Nothing against Valvoline,just had no reason to switch.

[Jim_PA]

I'm still curious as to why all the 20w 50 users? Isn't that stuff a little thick?

[69GMCLonghorn]

If you have a race engine (define this, please!), maybe you need some special additives. But really... the oils today are so good that we can get away with running a thinner oil and not damage the engine. If it's old and worn out, then 20W50 is good. Otherwise, save your money on the additives, etc. Use a good synthetic in either 10W30 or 40 and be done with it. If your motor is screwed up, dump some STP in it until you can afford to throw it in da guttah and go buy anuddah...

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by 69GMCLonghorn

If you have a race engine (define this, please!), maybe you need some special additives. But really... the oils today are so good that we can get away with running a thinner oil and not damage the engine. If it's old and worn out, then 20W50 is good. Otherwise, save your money on the additives, etc. Use a good synthetic in either 10W30 or 40 and be done with it. If your motor is screwed up, dump some STP in it until you can afford to throw it in da guttah and go buy anuddah...

The point of the additives is to replace the zinc thats missing in the new oils. Necessary because of the flat tappet cams that came in these trucks.

[70cst]

Good Thread!

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by Jim_PA

I'm still curious as to why all the 20w 50 users? Isn't that stuff a little thick?

That's why I was questioning the use of 20w50 in a new motor.

Originally Posted by 69GMCLonghorn

If you have a race engine (define this, please!), maybe you need some special additives. But really... the oils today are so good that we can get away with running a thinner oil and not damage the engine. If it's old and worn out, then 20W50 is good. Otherwise, save your money on the additives, etc. Use a good synthetic in either 10W30 or 40 and be done with it. If your motor is screwed up, dump some STP in it until you can afford to throw it in da guttah and go buy anuddah...

Oils today lack ZDDP thats why we need additive or special oils that have it.
My motor is new, and cannot use synthetics yet.
What oil are you using?
s/t

[67shortie]

Actually the DELO 15W-40 is rated for both gas engines and diesel, and it will have one of the highest ratings of ZZDP in it over other brands.

I use it in the truck, and the Chevelle with nothing strange going on....

Keep this going, it is a good read

[russellmarling]

I called the comp cams tech line after I built my engine, and they recommended using Shell Rotella T 15W40 with a flat tappet cam due to its high zinc content. This is primarily a diesel oil, but it is approved for use in gasoline applications as well. It is also affordable and readily available almost anywhere. I have been using it for a while, and I have no complaints.

[tim21391]

i run castrol gtx 10w-30 in my 72 and in my 00 eclipse...

[1968SWBBigBlock]

The real scoop on oil thickness
Your engine builder told you to run 20w50 oil because he built the motor on the loose side of the tolerance band - he needs the thicker oil to fill the bigger gaps in the bearings
This is not a good or bad situation - (a loose engine spins faster and makes better HP - a tighter engine will run smoother and last longer)
We run thinner oils in todays engines because they can maintain a tighter tolerance in the motor that works well with lighter weight oils.
Regarding what oil has zinc content and what oils do not - this is a moving target and nothing is written in stone - the oil company will not call you and tell you they changed the formulation - PROTECT YOURSELF - buy and use a good high quality additive that adds additional zinc back into your oil.
Many of the oils mentioned in this thread have changed formulations in the last 24 months - old tried and true may not work and it will be a costly lesson to learn when the cam fails.

[70cst]

So with all the above said...is there an additive that is heads above the others or all they all the same?

[Painter D]

Originally Posted by 1968SWBBigBlock

The real scoop on oil thickness
Your engine builder told you to run 20w50 oil because he built the motor on the loose side of the tolerance band - he needs the thicker oil to fill the bigger gaps in the bearings
This is not a good or bad situation - (a loose engine spins faster and makes better HP - a tighter engine will run smoother and last longer)
We run thinner oils in todays engines because they can maintain a tighter tolerance in the motor that works well with lighter weight oils.
Regarding what oil has zinc content and what oils do not - this is a moving target and nothing is written in stone - the oil company will not call you and tell you they changed the formulation - PROTECT YOURSELF - buy and use a good high quality additive that adds additional zinc back into your oil.
Many of the oils mentioned in this thread have changed formulations in the last 24 months - old tried and true may not work and it will be a costly lesson to learn when the cam fails.

What he said

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by 69chevyshort

What he said

I put the VR1 10w30 and now I've noticed slight valve train noise that I'm pretty sure wasn't there before.
So now I'm going to drain this oil and put the 20w50 in, and see if it makes it quiet. (oil pressure is 30psi)
I'll keep you posted on my findings.

*Question* is driving this with some valve train noise a problem? It's 25 miles to Town.
Please advise.
s/t

[highperf4x4]

Wow, I'm amazed at some of the things I've read in this thread. It's awesome that everyone is talking about this issue because it's extremely important but I can't believe some of things I'm hearing that the "mechanics" have said.

I'm a performance engine builder so I'm going to drop some info here just in case anyone is interested in using it. Definitely not trying to step on anyone's toes so this is just a "take it or leave it" kinda post.

Most of this info will deal with "flat tappet" hydraulic or solid lifter cams. Roller cams aren't subject to the "zinc" issue. And it all has to do with break-in. Your camshaft will either be set or ruined in the first 25 minutes.

1. Most important!!!! Your break-in procedure for the camshaft is the #1 issue regardless of oil. The cam lobes and lifter bottoms needs to be coated with the assembly grease that came with them. During installation you need to pour an entire bottle of GM EOS all over the cam and lifters. It will drain down and mix with your oil in the pan. Once you're ready to fire it up you have to start your engine and immediately bring it up to the 2500 to 3000 rpm range. You need to vary the rpm between 2500 and 3000 for at least 25 minutes. This means you need to have your timing set and enough coolant in the engine so that it will run this rpm and not overheat/backfire. If you're having trouble starting the engine, don't keep cranking, figure out the problem and try again. The reason for this procedure is that the lifters need to mate to the cam. They do this by spinning. The bottom of the lifters aren't flat. They're slightly indented, it's just hard to tell it. Same with the cam lobes. They have a slight arch in them. The reason for varying the rpm is that it will cause the crankshaft to throw oil on different ares of the cam. Your cam gets its oil from what is slung up by the crankshaft. If one area of the cam doesn't get enough oil during the break-in then the lifter bottom will overheat and "microweld" to the cam lobe when you shut it off. The next time you fire it up, it will break loose from the cam taking a small piece of the lobe with it. This is called "pitting" That pit will destroy the bottom of the lifter and then the lifter will destroy the cam lobe.

Now, the second most important thing to do is use the proper oil. It has more to do with what "not" to use. DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL for break-in or the first 10,000 miles. If you've built a performance motor then don't use it at all. A synthetic oil is too slippery and this will keep your lifters from spinning on the cam lobe during break-in and they will never mate. It wil also interfere with this spinning at high rpm in a performance engine. As a tip, if you can have someone in the vehicle to control the rpm of the motor then you can run it without the valve covers in place. You can get a spash shield to catch the oil slung out by the pushrods. Watch the pushrods as they will spin with the lifters. If you see one that isn't spinning you can give it a spin with your fingers to help it start. (This is assuming that you've properly adjusted your lifters/rocker arms) Don't use a multi-grade oil either. Do your break-in with a straight 30w oil. The thicker the oil, the cooler it will keep the camshaft during break-in. Heat is a major factor. The GM EOS additive that you pour over the cam and lifters is the only additive you need. After you've finished the break-in procedure immediately change the oil. You can add more GM EOS to the new oil. Run that oil for about 500 miles (this is to seat the piston rings) and change it again.

Now for oil theories. Shell Rotella oil was the only conventional oil you could get at your parts store that still had the zinc in it but that ended early last year. If you look at a bottle now it has that triple protection stamp on it including "emissions". That tells you that the zinc has been removed. So, Diesel oil no longer has any advantage over any other oil.

As for multi-grades (ie 10w30, 10w40, 20w50) They are not 30w, 40w, or 50w oil. That second number means that they are "equivalent" to those wieghts after they've gotten "hot". They do this by adding "fillers" to the oil that keeps it from breaking down as much when it heats up. The down side is that you lose some lubrication as it's replaced by the "fillers". I use only straight 30w oil. This is actually thicker than 20w50. However, it thins normally as it gets hot whereas the 20w50 will be "as thick" as straight 50w when it's hot. Keeping your oil at the highest possible weight is not necessary. 90% percent of your engine wear (in a tight motor)_will occur at startup. Unless you drive at excessive rpms or overheat the engine.

No oil will ever break the drive rod for your oil pump. And 20w-50 is not even as thick as straight 30w when it's cold so don't worry about that. If you run a straight 50w oil (perhaps your engine is old and loose) then you need to take it out before the outside temperature drops below 60. Oil that thick will not flow properly at startup and your engine will run dry until it heats up.

Racing oil is not meant for street use. It will gum up. If you use it, make sure you change it every 1000 miles. That's gonna get expensive.

Like I said, this is my personal info, and not meant to argue with anyone else's experience.

Here's my recommendation for your engine's break-in.
-Straight 30w, any "conventional" brand you want to use. (not synthetic)
-GM EOS additive.
-After break-in change it immediately.
-Add GM EOS again
-At 500 miles, change it again.
-If you want to use a zinc additive, go ahead but it's not necessary once the cam has been broken in.
-Do not use Synthetics or additives like slick 50 for the first 10,000 miles. If it's a performance (high rpm) engine, don't use it at all.

Now, if you have a roller cam................ I've just wasted a bunch of typing because you can use whatever oil or procedure you want to!

[Grapdawg]

Originally Posted by highperf4x4

Wow, I'm amazed at some of the things I've read in this thread. It's awesome that everyone is talking about this issue because it's extremely important but I can't believe some of things I'm hearing that the "mechanics" have said.

I'm a performance engine builder so I'm going to drop some info here just in case anyone is interested in using it. Definitely not trying to step on anyone's toes so this is just a "take it or leave it" kinda post.

Most of this info will deal with "flat tappet" hydraulic or solid lifter cams. Roller cams aren't subject to the "zinc" issue. And it all has to do with break-in. Your camshaft will either be set or ruined in the first 25 minutes.

1. Most important!!!! Your break-in procedure for the camshaft is the #1 issue regardless of oil. The cam lobes and lifter bottoms needs to be coated with the assembly grease that came with them. During installation you need to pour an entire bottle of GM EOS all over the cam and lifters. It will drain down and mix with your oil in the pan. Once you're ready to fire it up you have to start your engine and immediately bring it up to the 2500 to 3000 rpm range. You need to vary the rpm between 2500 and 3000 for at least 25 minutes. This means you need to have your timing set and enough coolant in the engine so that it will run this rpm and not overheat/backfire. If you're having trouble starting the engine, don't keep cranking, figure out the problem and try again. The reason for this procedure is that the lifters need to mate to the cam. They do this by spinning. The bottom of the lifters aren't flat. They're slightly indented, it's just hard to tell it. Same with the cam lobes. They have a slight arch in them. The reason for varying the rpm is that it will cause the crankshaft to throw oil on different ares of the cam. Your cam gets its oil from what is slung up by the crankshaft. If one area of the cam doesn't get enough oil during the break-in then the lifter bottom will overheat and "microweld" to the cam lobe when you shut it off. The next time you fire it up, it will break loose from the cam taking a small piece of the lobe with it. This is called "pitting" That pit will destroy the bottom of the lifter and then the lifter will destroy the cam lobe.

Now, the second most important thing to do is use the proper oil. It has more to do with what "not" to use. DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL for break-in or the first 10,000 miles. If you've built a performance motor then don't use it at all. A synthetic oil is too slippery and this will keep your lifters from spinning on the cam lobe during break-in and they will never mate. It wil also interfere with this spinning at high rpm in a performance engine. As a tip, if you can have someone in the vehicle to control the rpm of the motor then you can run it without the valve covers in place. You can get a spash shield to catch the oil slung out by the pushrods. Watch the pushrods as they will spin with the lifters. If you see one that isn't spinning you can give it a spin with your fingers to help it start. (This is assuming that you've properly adjusted your lifters/rocker arms) Don't use a multi-grade oil either. Do your break-in with a straight 30w oil. The thicker the oil, the cooler it will keep the camshaft during break-in. Heat is a major factor. The GM EOS additive that you pour over the cam and lifters is the only additive you need. After you've finished the break-in procedure immediately change the oil. You can add more GM EOS to the new oil. Run that oil for about 500 miles (this is to seat the piston rings) and change it again.

Now for oil theories. Shell Rotella oil was the only conventional oil you could get at your parts store that still had the zinc in it but that ended early last year. If you look at a bottle now it has that triple protection stamp on it including "emissions". That tells you that the zinc has been removed. So, Diesel oil no longer has any advantage over any other oil.

As for multi-grades (ie 10w30, 10w40, 20w50) They are not 30w, 40w, or 50w oil. That second number means that they are "equivalent" to those wieghts after they've gotten "hot". They do this by adding "fillers" to the oil that keeps it from breaking down as much when it heats up. The down side is that you lose some lubrication as it's replaced by the "fillers". I use only straight 30w oil. This is actually thicker than 20w50. However, it thins normally as it gets hot whereas the 20w50 will be "as thick" as straight 50w when it's hot. Keeping your oil at the highest possible weight is not necessary. 90% percent of your engine wear (in a tight motor)_will occur at startup. Unless you drive at excessive rpms or overheat the engine.

No oil will ever break the drive rod for your oil pump. And 20w-50 is not even as thick as straight 30w when it's cold so don't worry about that. If you run a straight 50w oil (perhaps your engine is old and loose) then you need to take it out before the outside temperature drops below 60. Oil that thick will not flow properly at startup and your engine will run dry until it heats up.

Racing oil is not meant for street use. It will gum up. If you use it, make sure you change it every 1000 miles. That's gonna get expensive.

Like I said, this is my personal info, and not meant to argue with anyone else's experience.

Here's my recommendation for your engine's break-in.
-Straight 30w, any "conventional" brand you want to use. (not synthetic)
-GM EOS additive.
-After break-in change it immediately.
-Add GM EOS again
-At 500 miles, change it again.
-If you want to use a zinc additive, go ahead but it's not necessary once the cam has been broken in.
-Do not use Synthetics or additives like slick 50 for the first 10,000 miles. If it's a performance (high rpm) engine, don't use it at all.

Now, if you have a roller cam................ I've just wasted a bunch of typing because you can use whatever oil or procedure you want to!

So quick question for ya. I have a motor with more than likely 200000 + miles and have some lifter noise. What oil should I run to help keep it going alittle longer. 20w50 straight 30w or straight 40w. I do live in a cold climate.

[highperf4x4]

Originally Posted by Grapdawg

So quick question for ya. I have a motor with more than likely 200000 + miles and have some lifter noise. What oil should I run to help keep it going alittle longer. 20w50 straight 30w or straight 40w. I do live in a cold climate.

Straight 30w or 20w-50. Not straight 40w. If you're in a cold climate and you run thick oil, you won't have any lubrication during startup and this is where most of your wear occurs. Most places don't even carry the stright 40w anymore.

If your hydraulic lifters aren't pumping up like they should then no oil is going to help you much. Just keep the rpms down as much as you can. Lucas Oil Stabilizer will help the oil "cling" longer without making it any thicker and this might help to keep them pumped up.

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by highperf4x4

Wow, I'm amazed at some of the things I've read in this thread. It's awesome that everyone is talking about this issue because it's extremely important but I can't believe some of things I'm hearing that the "mechanics" have said.

I'm a performance engine builder so I'm going to drop some info here just in case anyone is interested in using it. Definitely not trying to step on anyone's toes so this is just a "take it or leave it" kinda post.

Most of this info will deal with "flat tappet" hydraulic or solid lifter cams. Roller cams aren't subject to the "zinc" issue. And it all has to do with break-in. Your camshaft will either be set or ruined in the first 25 minutes.

1. Most important!!!! Your break-in procedure for the camshaft is the #1 issue regardless of oil. The cam lobes and lifter bottoms needs to be coated with the assembly grease that came with them. During installation you need to pour an entire bottle of GM EOS all over the cam and lifters. It will drain down and mix with your oil in the pan. Once you're ready to fire it up you have to start your engine and immediately bring it up to the 2500 to 3000 rpm range. You need to vary the rpm between 2500 and 3000 for at least 25 minutes. This means you need to have your timing set and enough coolant in the engine so that it will run this rpm and not overheat/backfire. If you're having trouble starting the engine, don't keep cranking, figure out the problem and try again. The reason for this procedure is that the lifters need to mate to the cam. They do this by spinning. The bottom of the lifters aren't flat. They're slightly indented, it's just hard to tell it. Same with the cam lobes. They have a slight arch in them. The reason for varying the rpm is that it will cause the crankshaft to throw oil on different ares of the cam. Your cam gets its oil from what is slung up by the crankshaft. If one area of the cam doesn't get enough oil during the break-in then the lifter bottom will overheat and "microweld" to the cam lobe when you shut it off. The next time you fire it up, it will break loose from the cam taking a small piece of the lobe with it. This is called "pitting" That pit will destroy the bottom of the lifter and then the lifter will destroy the cam lobe.

Agreed, I pored the EOS in like you said.

Now, the second most important thing to do is use the proper oil. It has more to do with what "not" to use. DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL for break-in or the first 10,000 miles. If you've built a performance motor then don't use it at all. A synthetic oil is too slippery and this will keep your lifters from spinning on the cam lobe during break-in and they will never mate. It wil also interfere with this spinning at high rpm in a performance engine. As a tip, if you can have someone in the vehicle to control the rpm of the motor then you can run it without the valve covers in place. You can get a spash shield to catch the oil slung out by the pushrods. Watch the pushrods as they will spin with the lifters. If you see one that isn't spinning you can give it a spin with your fingers to help it start. (This is assuming that you've properly adjusted your lifters/rocker arms) Don't use a multi-grade oil either. Do your break-in with a straight 30w oil. The thicker the oil, the cooler it will keep the camshaft during break-in. Heat is a major factor. The GM EOS additive that you pour over the cam and lifters is the only additive you need. After you've finished the break-in procedure immediately change the oil. You can add more GM EOS to the new oil. Run that oil for about 500 miles (this is to seat the piston rings) and change it again.

The slippery oil theory makes sense, and I can see that being a problem.
Lunati said to watch the push rods like you described too.

Now for oil theories. Shell Rotella oil was the only conventional oil you could get at your parts store that still had the zinc in it but that ended early last year. If you look at a bottle now it has that triple protection stamp on it including "emissions". That tells you that the zinc has been removed. So, Diesel oil no longer has any advantage over any other oil.

As for multi-grades (ie 10w30, 10w40, 20w50) They are not 30w, 40w, or 50w oil. That second number means that they are "equivalent" to those wieghts after they've gotten "hot". They do this by adding "fillers" to the oil that keeps it from breaking down as much when it heats up. The down side is that you lose some lubrication as it's replaced by the "fillers". I use only straight 30w oil. This is actually thicker than 20w50. However, it thins normally as it gets hot whereas the 20w50 will be "as thick" as straight 50w when it's hot. Keeping your oil at the highest possible weight is not necessary. 90% percent of your engine wear (in a tight motor)_will occur at startup. Unless you drive at excessive rpms or overheat the engine.

No oil will ever break the drive rod for your oil pump. And 20w-50 is not even as thick as straight 30w when it's cold so don't worry about that. If you run a straight 50w oil (perhaps your engine is old and loose) then you need to take it out before the outside temperature drops below 60. Oil that thick will not flow properly at startup and your engine will run dry until it heats up.

I like you explanation on the weights- Thank you for posting this.
Do you think the straight 30w will quiet my valve train? I didn't notice it before with 15w40, but did notice it after I put 10w30 in- more so when it got warmed up.

Racing oil is not meant for street use. It will gum up. If you use it, make sure you change it every 1000 miles. That's gonna get expensive.

I've heard this too, and was my concern before I called the Valvoline engineers.
They assured me it has all the detergents as the regular oil with all the ZDDP etc we need. He said it should be changed @ 3k.
I plan on sending a sample to Blackstone labs for analyses preformed. Do you already have lab results to prove it's not good over 1k?

Like I said, this is my personal info, and not meant to argue with anyone else's experience.

Here's my recommendation for your engine's break-in.
-Straight 30w, any "conventional" brand you want to use. (not synthetic)
-GM EOS additive.
-After break-in change it immediately.
-Add GM EOS again
-At 500 miles, change it again.
-If you want to use a zinc additive, go ahead but it's not necessary once the cam has been broken in.
-Do not use Synthetics or additives like slick 50 for the first 10,000 miles. If it's a performance (high rpm) engine, don't use it at all.

Now, if you have a roller cam................ I've just wasted a bunch of typing because you can use whatever oil or procedure you want to!

Thanks for sharing, it's nice to have all this information all in one place!
s/t