PVC/Breathers/Oil Fill ?? Confused!!

[Longhorn Man]

I doubt there is a PCV problem here, sounds more like a simple gasket failure.
Take it to the car wash and clean the engine off, and then fire it up and watch at the gasket areas on the front of the engine for leaks. If nothing is showing, then drive it a mile at sity street speeds, and recheck. Keep looking till you see it, but keep the speeds low to try and keep spreading to a minimum.
I would look the hardest at the timing chain cover, and crank seal.

[mclairmo]

I have never seen an alternator or water pump get covered in oil since they are ahead of any oil seals. Sounds like the front crank seal is leaking and maybe slinging oil everywhere. Or maybe power steering pump? Or maybe front of oil pan?

[CSGAS]

You tried to use the end seals for the intake didn't you (don't ask me how I know )?

[6600DURAMAX]

CSGAS _ YUP, a buddy came over just after I dropped it in and saw that Iused those cork pieces (or as he refers to them the devils cork) But I decided to run a heavy bead of RTV at the bottom of the intake/block over top of the cork seal. It is probably the culprit though.

I cant decide if I should pull the entire motor out and just redo the entire thing or if just pulling the intake will be good enough.

I am pretty sure it is not the power steering as the fluid is brown and my power steering is clear, although I was hoping it was just a loose line.

I also checked the PCV valve and it is definatly sucking so that end of it seems to be working just fine.

I am going to clean it up and shut the fans off and run it a little to see if that helps pinpoint a location

thanks guys

[6600DURAMAX]

So let em get this 100% correct. My breather on the passenger side is actually sucking air into the motor? And the PCV on the drivers side is sucking air out of the motor into the base of the carb.?

If that is correct it appears everything is working correctly. When the truck is running at idle, I can feel the pass. breather hole sucking my hand down and the PCV valve is also sucking when I pull it out of the valve cover.

So I have wipe everytihng off and am taking it for a drive to see if I can pinpoint the oil source.

More to follow!

[jaros44sr]

subscribed, got pics of the finished Valve Covers. Like to see them, as I might go your route

[Longhorn Man]

You are right, the PCV draws air out of the crank case thought the valve covers, and fresh air is drawn in from the breather.

[66 on the bottle]

If your breathers are still getting oil filled it may be your valve cover baffle's.I made this mistake when I did my last engine rebuild.my breathers kept filling up with oil and I thought maybea the rings wasn't sealing up and the crank case pressure was to high causing excessive oiling up top,so I put some miles on it hoping the rings would seal up,the problem continued,then one day I was cleaning the garage and came across the baffles that mount under the hole for the breathers.stupid me bought new edelbrock valve covers and didn't install the baffles.problem solved.also if you use a high volume oil pump with a stock capacity oil pan when you get on it all the oil will get sucked out of the bottom so fast that your breathers will fill up.hope this helps

[6600DURAMAX]

I decieded to pull the motor and replace the gaskets even though they only have roughly 50 miles or so!!!

RESULTS - WELL, they are kind of inconclusive. The Felpro One Piece rubber oil pan gasket appears to have torn in places along the front and rear edge ?? Has anyone ever saw this? It doesn't seem like it would make it leak but maybe it would. Also I wwent to change the front seal out of the timing chain cover and I can actually pull the seal out with my hand?? This doesn't seem right at all, normally you have to beat them out. Also with this aftermarket aluminum cover the seal does not sit 100% flush with the outside of the cover, but when I look at the JEGS catalog I notice the same thing, the seal actually bottoms out on the inside flange of the cover before it is flush. Maybe this is the problem??

I am now debating on ordering the CLOYES two piece timing chain cover in hopes it might provide tighter seal tolerances??

I will try and get some pics of the valve covers, I think they turned out very good, nice clean look!

[6600DURAMAX]

More drama, I did order the Cloyes cover and the fit of the front sseal was perfect. Put everything back together but this time I used the cheaper cork and rubber (front/rear) oil pan gasket because the one piece Felpro has such a thick front piece my Milodon oil pan does not want to sit flush on the oil pan rails. Buttoned everything up, and reinstalled motor.

Drove a couple times and no major leaks. UNTIL now!!!

I saw a couple of small drops on the ground this morning so I thought I would take a look.
I found the front rubber oil pan seal has pushed out on the one side!!!!!!!!!!!!

It appears to me the motor is still building to much pressure and causing these gasket failures?

How can this be since I know my breathers are working properly? Maybe these types of breathers do not allow enough pressure relief?

This is absolutley rediculous!!

I really need some help guys

[6600DURAMAX]

pics of valve covers and breathers

[6600DURAMAX]

Well, pulled those valve cover and installed a set of chrome ones with no baffles a different PVC and a k&N breather.

Results are exactly the same! It continues to push out the front oil pan gasket.?

What gives here guys!!

The only vacumn port I have is in the carb spacer. I have a tee fitting off of that. One line going to the TH400 shift moldule and one line going to the PCV. Is there not enough vacumn to prevent this.

How can I get more vacumn

Please help guys, If not this motor has to come out AGAIN !!!!

thanks

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

Well, pulled those valve cover and installed a set of chrome ones with no baffles a different PVC and a k&N breather.

Results are exactly the same! It continues to push out the front oil pan gasket.?

What gives here guys!!

The only vacumn port I have is in the carb spacer. I have a tee fitting off of that. One line going to the TH400 shift moldule and one line going to the PCV. Is there not enough vacumn to prevent this.

How can I get more vacumn

Please help guys, If not this motor has to come out AGAIN !!!!

thanks

What kind of cam? Maybe you need a vac pump? Have you tried different v.covers w/a filter in each?

[PowerPro]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

No one has any ideas???

Your engine has quite a bit of blow-by and it's building up in the engine when you rev higher and it's forcing the oil out the gaskets. Easy fix - get a new pcv and put one of those filtered caps on the oil filler. This will allow excess blow by gasses that aren't being picked up by the pcv system to flow out the filter.

I actually have a lot of experience with this! I was working with Cummins ... i know, Diesel engine, but everything on a diesel is similar just bigger and badder. Anyway, what I was actually hired on to do was to INSTALL CRANCASE VENTILLATION SYSTEMS! It was fun, cause I got to go to all the bus stations and school bus depots, etc.

Anyway, the previous person they had hired on to do this installed the systems improperly and allowed the filters to have oil drain down into them (a lot) and it clogged the filter system and blew oil out of every gasketed surface on those engines. Unfortunately for Cummins, they had to warranty all of that guy's shoddy work.

bottom line - if your pcv system gets clogged and you have some blow-by, it WILL build up in your engine and can blow out your seals.

[6600DURAMAX]

PowerPro - I have exactly what you are describing - A pcv on the driver vavle cover and a big K&N breather on the pass. side valve cover. The valve covers have no baffles, so there should be no restriction what so ever.

Could having my TH400 vacumm lmodule line and the pcv running off my only vacumm source be a problem.??

My only vacumm source is a single 3/8'' line that comes off my carb. spacer. I have no other vacumm source?

Thinking of drilling another hole in carb spacer to get each line it own source?

[6600DURAMAX]

Here is the specs on the cam I have - Says it has good vacumm

Comp Cams 11-444-8 "Xtreme Energy" retro-fit hydraulic roller camshaft.
Fits 1965-1996, 396-454 cu.in. Chevrolet V8.
Comp Cams "Xtreme Energy Cams" are the latest series of hydraulic and hydraulic roller cams to take advantage of the newest development of camshaft design and valve train technology. They have an aggressive lobe design that produces better throttle response than other cams with the same duration and they still deliver strong engine vacuum. "Xtreme Energy Cams" can be used for any street or street/strip application where both top end horsepower and good throttle response are desired.
RPM range: 3,200 to 6,200 rpm.
Duration at .050" lift: 248/254 (int/exh)
Valve lift with 1.7 rocker: .560"/.580" (int/exh)
Perfect for bracket racing, 10:1 compression, 3500+ stall converter.
Requires headers, good intake.
Comp Cams 11-444-8
• Aggressive lobe design
• Excellent throttle response
• Strong vacuum
• Excellent in high performance street/strip applications
• Good top end horsepower

[haysonj]

I don't understand how this could be blowing gaskets unless you have a broken ring or the gaps were not staggered properly. I run 7 psi of boost on my boat and have never had a problem with blown gaskets. A hole in a piston will do it also. You might want to run a compression check on the motor.

[Alex Hayley]

One other thought that comes to mind...it got me when I started up the engine I built. It initially ran fine but started blowing oil out of the seals after a couple of runs. It turned out, that during break in, the compression rings on a couple of cylinders turned until they aligned. This caused a huge amount of blow by and thus crankcase pressure. I determined this by performing a leak down test and identified the cylinders with this problem.

[Classic Heartbeat]

I am with haysonj on this one. As I read through the thread, this is one thing that has not been addressed. I would say that the ring allignment is bad allowing cylinder pressure to pass by the rings into the crank case. Try running a compression check on the motor and see what you come up with. WES

[6600DURAMAX]

I will, but the motor was together before I redone the truck. All I did was pull it out, clean it, change the oil pump and pickup and slapped on a new coat of paint.

The compression check is easy to do, so I will do it this week. Will there be a big difference in the cylinder pressure?? What could have caused a ring to turn?

Is the carb spacer a goo spot to try and get more vacumm?

[6600DURAMAX]

Just realized you said I need to perform a leak down test not a pressure test, How do you performa leak down test??

[Classic Heartbeat]

You were right, I said compression check. No matter what your readings they should all be within 15 to 20 pounds of each other. Preferably 150 and up. Something like a ring could have cracked or who knows, but that would be my next coarse of action. WES

[ksjh1316]

Even though this is not on a Chevy I had a similar problem years ago on a MG the problem was that the rings were not set correctly causing the pressure problems. I did not have it coming out of the valve cover but out of the dipstick. It seems your weak point to force the oil out is thru the seals. It will suck but if you redo the rings it will eliminate the problem. At least thats what I had to do in my case

[Alex Hayley]

You could start with a compression test to get a rough idea of the condition of your engine. However, a leakdown test is going to identify possible issues that would not be by a compression test. To perform a leakdown test you might be able to borrow the leakdown tester from an autoparts store. To answer your specific question, you screw the tester into the cylinder spark plug hole, pressurise the cylinder, wait a while and check how much pressure leaked out via rings or valves.

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

Just realized you said I need to perform a leak down test not a pressure test, How do you performa leak down test??

[PowerPro]

If you have that good of a pcv setup, then you shouldn't be having this issue. If you have plenty of vacuum, i wouldn't worry about running a separate line.

as far as the rings go, if they were installed with the gaps aligning, you will get lots of blow-by or a hole in one of your pistons as previously mentioned. The compression test will definitely give you more information.