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03-04-2011, 12:38 AM | #26 |
Project Junkie! Fishing Poor!!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Olympia,Wa. 98512
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
All of the trucks that I worked on were a 6" drop in the rear. One may have been 5". They were 3" to 4" in the front. Generaly speaking 4" or less will be fine with an adjustible panhard in the stock location. By the time I see the trucks they have already changed all of the bushings, ball joints and etc. just because they are experiencing the problems that I spoke of. They come to me because they are at the end of their rope.. These trucks are definetly not precision, that's for sure, but they should be able to run 100 mph without scaring the you know what out of you. By the way, I like your panhard bar and think it's great. A lot of thought had to have gone into it and many will be the benifate from it. Great job!! WES
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03-04-2011, 09:07 AM | #27 |
GEARHEAD
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Wes, I'm glad you chimed in. I can't begin to compare experience on these trucks to you, since I only deal with my own stuff and not paying customers. My bar works for me most likely because I have a mild drop by todays standards. This just gave me the ability to adjust it. I actually thought of just shortening it slightly first, but decided to go this way in case I was off a bit on my cut and reweld.
This board is a boon to us DIY'ers. Some ideas I really like, others I shake my head at. The good ideas stick, the bad ones fade away. I've tried a few things that didn't work. You won't find them posted anywhere.
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If no one knows what you're doing, they can't tell you you're doing it wrong HG's Dream Car Build - Shelby Cobra Kit Build your own adjustable track bar 71 Long Fleet C/10 72 Jimmy 4x4 (Junkyard Jimmy) HG's Plow Truck '78 K35 Dually Bigass Farm Truck HG's thread of miscellaneous stuff Last edited by hgs_notes; 03-04-2011 at 09:08 AM. |
03-04-2011, 11:07 AM | #28 |
Project Junkie! Fishing Poor!!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Olympia,Wa. 98512
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
I apriciate that. Your pan hard bar modification is a great one. It will save lots of people money that otherwise may not have lowered their trucks because of cost. You should come up with a kit with instructions. I bet you could sell a few offsetting your cost of working on your trucks. As you know people take a lot of pride in doing it themselves and if they save some money, that's even better. Keep up the good work! WES
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On-line catolog Classic Heartbeat Pickup Parts WEHEPP@comcast.net Call us Toll Free (888) 338-2502 Like Us on Facebook No appointment necessary. 72 BB Chevy Custom Deluxe / Custom Camper 67 I-6 (Soon to be 5.7 LS1) Panel 68 BB Chevy Short Bed 72 6.0 LQ9 Short Bed Chevy 4X4 Olympia's fastest growing truck parts supplier. Olympia's home for Wayward Chevys Last edited by Classic Heartbeat; 03-04-2011 at 11:08 AM. |
03-04-2011, 02:16 PM | #29 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Looking at this thread got me thinking. I went to our local roundy round supply shop and they have hex aluminum adjustment sleeves and nuts for under $20. Place is called Lefthander Chassis. If you have a local cicle track supplier you could save a few more bucks over Summits or Jegs stuff.
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04-25-2011, 10:41 PM | #30 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Yeah, but what will offset the cost of liability insurance for the product?
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04-26-2011, 01:56 AM | #31 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
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04-26-2011, 03:07 AM | #32 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Great job!!!!!
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04-26-2011, 03:33 AM | #33 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
oh great idea. I sure am going to have to do this very soon on my truck. thanks for the info and idea.
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04-26-2011, 08:42 AM | #34 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
This might help everyone to understand rear axle movement in regards to stock length track bar.
I modeled the rear suspension on Autodesk Inventor to see the articulation of the rear axle as constrained by the track bar and trailing arms. Truck is a '65 C10 with 5" drop springs. Image below is an aerial view with frame at ride height: I turned off the visibility of the gas tank so the rear axle / track bar could be seen more clearly. Image below is the frame is at ride height (rear cross members removed to allow viewing of track bar) Note angle of track bar in the following photos Image below is the rear axle is hanging, being suspended by the coil springs. (Note: This moves the axle to the right a negligible amount < 1/8") Image below is fully bottomed out; frame is on the top of the rear axle tubes. (NOTE: This moves the axle to the left approx. 11/16" from the std. ride height position) Image below is fully articulated, hanging on left side, bottomed out on right side. (Note: This moves the axle to the right a negligible amount < 1/16") Image below is fully articulated, hanging on right side, bottomed out on left side. (Note: This moves the axle to the left approx. 1/2" from the std. ride height position) Last edited by lakeroadster; 04-26-2011 at 02:57 PM. |
04-26-2011, 09:00 AM | #35 |
GEARHEAD
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Thanks for posting that. Do you have a similar model using the typical aftermarket longer track bar for comparison? I've also been wondering how much difference the shock relocators make and if there is a more optimum position for the shocks based on my 3.5" static drop.
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If no one knows what you're doing, they can't tell you you're doing it wrong HG's Dream Car Build - Shelby Cobra Kit Build your own adjustable track bar 71 Long Fleet C/10 72 Jimmy 4x4 (Junkyard Jimmy) HG's Plow Truck '78 K35 Dually Bigass Farm Truck HG's thread of miscellaneous stuff |
04-26-2011, 09:36 AM | #36 | |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Quote:
Here is the data for the longer track arm that a just modeled this morning for ya'll. The longer bar helps, but not significantly. I am betting thats why GM never used them on these trucks. I haven't been a big fan of these long bars simply because they aren't really needed on a street driven truck. Think about it. A stock 3/4 ton truck with stink-bug high rear end height, now fully load it down. Your street driven truck will never see more suspension travel than that, right? Now if your running a rock crawling 4x4 with a lot of suspension travel like my buddy Tony's Bronco in the last photo below, the long track arm will make a whole lot of sense. Image below is the frame is at ride height. Again, note angle of track bar in the following photos Image below is fully bottomed out; frame is on the top of the rear axle tubes. (NOTE: This moves the axle to the right approx. 1/2" from the std. ride height position) Image below is fully articulated, hanging left side, bottomed out on right side. (Note: This moves the axle to the right a negligible amount about 1/8") Image below is fully articulated, hanging on right side, bottomed out on left side. (Note: This moves the axle to the right approx. 1/4" from the std. ride height position) Here is a photo of an application of where a really long track bar yields the most benefit.... lots of articulation here: Last edited by lakeroadster; 04-26-2011 at 02:59 PM. |
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04-26-2011, 09:55 AM | #37 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
I like it..
wonder if I can thread them with my tap and die set.. cheap is good |
04-26-2011, 10:19 AM | #38 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
That would be a pretty large die, like the kind that plumbers use for iron pipe. Good idea! What is the OD on the stock panhard bar?
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1968 LWB C20 / AC / Wood Bed Last edited by crakarjax; 04-26-2011 at 10:19 AM. |
04-26-2011, 10:30 AM | #39 | |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Quote:
and the adjuster (can't remember the name) just remove the eye hooks that come with them.. strong enough to chain stuff down it'll be strong enough here.. |
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04-26-2011, 11:18 AM | #40 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
i believe the name is "turn buckle"?
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04-26-2011, 11:29 AM | #41 | |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Quote:
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04-26-2011, 12:22 PM | #42 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
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04-26-2011, 12:25 PM | #43 | ||
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Quote:
The 60-66 lower brackets are superior in strength to the later design because it captures the shock on both sides. Quote:
You're a braver man than I if you trust a Home Depot aluminum turnbuckle as a track arm adjuster. I have used the Home Depot Turnbuckles for around the house projects. The tapped turnbuckle threads are very loose thread form, not a good thing in this application. Last edited by lakeroadster; 04-26-2011 at 01:26 PM. |
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04-26-2011, 12:45 PM | #44 |
"the other guy"
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
are these a direct bolt in?
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God Said,"Building A 10 Second Import Is Like Coming Out Of The Closet, In The End Ur Still....."EXPLETIVE" |
04-26-2011, 12:50 PM | #45 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
LMC's P/N 34-1250 for the control arm is the same for P/n for 63-72, that means the u-bolt spacing is the same, which means that yes they should be a direct fit.
Might need longer u-bolts? Last edited by lakeroadster; 04-26-2011 at 12:58 PM. |
04-26-2011, 01:46 PM | #46 | |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Quote:
wasn't talking alum turnbuckle, haven't seen alum turnbuckles for use with chains, ones I've seen where steel |
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04-26-2011, 01:52 PM | #47 |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Hey Wes,
Dont' take this wrong (I respect you as an expert), but is that a mock-up pic? I was wondering because it looks like the shock relocaters, trailing-arms and u-bolt bolts are below the rim. Disaster if you have a rear blowout. I wouldn't want someone with less experience to have their suspension below the scrub-line. Dano
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04-26-2011, 02:27 PM | #48 | ||
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Quote:
Good eye Dano! Lowering blocks are a no-no unless you are running big diameter wheels like 20's or 22's. Even then one needs to watch for scrub line requirements. Quote:
Same story.... not near the quality as automotive. They use looser thread class fits. Assemble one at the store and see how much slop there is. Last edited by lakeroadster; 04-26-2011 at 02:31 PM. |
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04-26-2011, 07:10 PM | #49 |
GEARHEAD
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
I used the edelbrock adjusters mainly because I thought they looked cooler and had more thickness and strength. The stock replacement tie rod adjusters would also work the same and be much cheaper. I think about $6 each and would likely be strong enough, considering they are used on the front steering everyday on all of these and millions of other vehicles.
You will not likely be able to thread the bar using your home tap and die set. Mainly because one side needs to be reverse threads and the cost of the die is about the same as buying a new bar. Also, The diameter is just a smidge to big so it should be turned down a bit for a standard die to cut the regular right handed threads. Thats why it was easier for me to just drop off the pieces a block from my house to the machinist for a very reasonable cost. As far as side shift during articulation goes, if you want to loose it completely, there are systems available to do that. I forget the name of it, one of you guys will remember, but it basically puts a pivot point at the differential then has bars mounted above and below that are then mounted to the frame. It keeps it centered regardless of vertical motion. Primarily a road track suspension system. I think 4 link set ups with triangulation will also work well, but not sure how the sideways motion compares on those. But if you just want to get your axle centered again after a few inches of static drop, this will work. I'm glad to see the input and attention this is getting and hope it helps someone else out. I get so much from this board that I hope to give a little back. Thanks again to lakeroadster for the modeling and input. I've seen his work elsewhere on the board and it's great info.
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If no one knows what you're doing, they can't tell you you're doing it wrong HG's Dream Car Build - Shelby Cobra Kit Build your own adjustable track bar 71 Long Fleet C/10 72 Jimmy 4x4 (Junkyard Jimmy) HG's Plow Truck '78 K35 Dually Bigass Farm Truck HG's thread of miscellaneous stuff |
04-26-2011, 07:23 PM | #50 | |
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Re: HG's Adjustable Track Bar
Quote:
And you are welcome. Glad to help when I can.http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ght=watts+link John Last edited by lakeroadster; 04-26-2011 at 07:30 PM. |
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