HEI Ignition Problem

[neba]

the pickup coil does the job the points used to do. it acts like a little counter. fires the primary side of coil. its a common problem on hei ignitions

[norske]

My HEI did something similar to yours until it completely crapped out. Turns out it was the pick-up coil. Put an ohmeter on it and it read 900 ohms, should have read wide open. Put in pick-up coil and everything was ok.

[nrb's70gmc]

ya im thinking it may be the pickup coil as well, because about 5 minutes after the engine is running it must get hot and it really makes my engine idle rough, it almost starts shaking/ viberating and it's like the engine is not getting spark. This has happened to me before, but think that was from the when the main coil's wire was pinched in half. (my fault)

[NINERS1]

I had almost the same problem for several weeks, turns out it was the wire in the very bottom of the distributor, it was almost broke but not quite and the vacume advance { weights] was hitting the wire off idle and causing the truck to run very rough, replaced the distributor and all is good!!!

[nrb's70gmc]

UPDATE--

i replaced the pickup coil and rotor today yesterday i bought the new cap everything is back in the truck. the motor cranks but wont start--(i think i may have the rotor in 180 degrees from ware it supossed to be. no big deal i will just need to switch it around)

just so im clear cant you set the rotor facing a to one of the cylinders to get the timing in the ball park?

i know you can do this but i forget which one and which side of the rotor should be pointing forward.

thanks for all your help guys the only thing left to question (in the hei) if its not fixed is the module.

[Sinister]

Get it to TDC. Pull the number one spark plug and bump the motor til it blows a puff of air out and your damper lines up. Set the rotor pointing at number 1. I like to take a sharpie and make a mark on the distributor body with the cap on for #1. A remoter starter helps a lot.

[neba]

you need to get a cylinder to tdc and then have the rotor point to that plug wire. doesnt matter which one.

[nrb's70gmc]

ok will do it tomarrow if it does'nt rain to much

[nrb's70gmc]

hay guys a quick question- i pulled the dist out again so i can get everything back to tdc

i looked at my balencer and there was no mark (no wonder it wont start) so bumped the motor over unitll the mark was viable right now its sitting about 70 degrees to the right of strait up (rough estimate from before)

i pulled the #1 plug and put a screwdriver in the hole to see if it taps the piston (it is hitting somthing) but i dont know how to tell if its the piston

when i put the dist back in what side of the rotor should be facing the front (#1 when tdc)???

i understand the rotor should be facing the tdc piston (im going to use #1) but should the metal thing that sticks up (on the rotor) be at the back or the front when facing the cylinder??

i have not done this enough to remember and also im having to do it alone so im sorta working blind-- any tips for finding tdc when your working solo??

UPDATE ON SPARK PLUGS
based off of the #1 plug it is a medium brown color- to me it looks pretty normal wear (i guess) for 15,000 miles

[extd56]

Whan you have the #1 plug out have someone turn it over with your finger in the spark plug hole and you will feel when it is on the compression stroke. That is when the mark on the balancer should be lining up on the mark.

[highperf4x4]

If you're working solo then take a spark plug and start the threads just enough to hold it in it's hole but not seal. When you turn the motor over you will hear it starting hissing like a giant snake when you're on the compression stroke. That's when it fires. So stop your balancer with the mark a couple inches to the right of center if you're looking straight down. It's easiest to do if you pull all the spark plugs and turn the engine with a rachet/socket/extension on the balancer bolt. If you have a manual transmission don't forget to put it in neutral.

If your plugs have really been in there 6 years I would change them. Carbureted engines do not burn as efficiently as fuel injected engines and especially not performance engines. For this reason (and due to the tiny electrode on a platinum plug) never run platinums. They will foul pretty quick. You will hear people tell you how much better a platinum plug will fire but it's hogwash. You need a very large electrode like a plain old A/C delco has. HEI throws a ton of spark just like it is and especially if you're running the mallory 50,000 volt coil and some 8.8mm wires. Which isn't even necessary unless you routinely get over 6000rpm.

What are the chances that you can find another HEI dizzy to drop in just to check things out? I wouldn't worry about changing the ignition module in an HEI dizzy. If it goes bad it will just die. It is however a good idea to carry a spare in your truck.

Let me ask you this, Do you have a gasket between the dizzy and the intake and if so, do you have alot of oil buildup around the clamp for the dizzy? You might be having a grounding issue. you can wrap a large grounding strap around the shaft of the dizzy and bolt it to the firewall and see if that helps any.

As for where the rotor points, when you're looking at the dizzy cap, the first post to the left of the location where you plug the hot/module wires in is supposed to be #1. That is where the end of the rotor should be pointing after the dizzy drops in place. Remember the worm gear will spin it some as it goes down. You want it pointing at the #1 post "after" it drops all the way. Like someone said already, you can stick the dizzy cap on and use a sharpie to mark the side of the dizzy where that post is and then take the cap back off to stab the dizzy and line the rotor up with that mark. The piece of metal sticking up on the rotor is only for the coil. It's the tip of the rotor that needs to line up with the #1 post.

If the motor is hard to crank when you start it then you have the timing advanced too far. Loosen the dizzy bolt and turn it clockwise a little at a time to slow the timing down until it cranks easy. If it's cranking really easy but not starting then turn the dizzy counter clockwise a little at a time until it will start or it gets hard to crank. If it never gets hard to crank then you have no fire and we need to start over.

[nrb's70gmc]

Wow thanks guys for the info-- a friend of mine stopped by and helped me out we got the truck running we let it run (idle) for about 15 minutes it sounded good but.....

one thing i cant understand
i have always had the dist dust cap (mallory sticker) sitting straight across like west/east--- it was parallel with the fire wall

as it is now the dist is sitting west/south east (about 20 degrees ff from parallel with the fire wall

i dont think its a big deal it just looks funny when you open the hood
like i said the motor seams to idle/rev/and start the same as it always has but i have yet to road test it.

[nrb's70gmc]

my old engine used to run the basic acdelco plugs (they had a real short thead)

my new engine was bought new in 2004 but the heads are diffrent than the ones on my old engine becouse i had to change to the long reach theads.

on my old engine i did not need to run shorty plugs
my new (2004 crate) i need to run shorty plugs or else the boots will hit the headers

my point is accel u groove's are the only quality long reach shorty plugs i have been able find and they are over $10.000 a piece (no joke)

so with spark plugs im limited to my choices

Yes i have had the current spark plugs on there sence 2004 but i have only put about 15,000 mile on the new motor total sence 2004

i dont know if this helps or anything just letting you know when it comes to plugs the ones i need are special order i have never seen them in any of my local auto shops. and if they did not cost over $80.00 for new ones i wouldn't mind changing them---im just hoping (for right now) there not the problem. lol

[Ackattack]

I was having a very similar problem with my 69 truck (hesitation when warm). I replaced the coil, cap, rotor, and ignition module and now it will die when I stop and backfire on decel and miss while accelerating. I'm going to get a new pickup coil tomorrow.

One idea for the future, for distributor or whatever.....bust out the digital camera and take a picture so you can refer to it when you go to reinstall you distributor or whatever else you're working on.

[nrb's70gmc]

Originally Posted by Ackattack

I was having a very similar problem with my 69 truck (hesitation when warm). I replaced the coil, cap, rotor, and ignition module and now it will die when I stop and backfire on decel and miss while accelerating. I'm going to get a new pickup coil tomorrow.

One idea for the future, for distributor or whatever.....bust out the digital camera and take a picture so you can refer to it when you go to reinstall you distributor or whatever else you're working on.

ya man thanks i know a camera works well lol but when you in a bind and the truck your working on is a daily driver (i anyway) get a little stressed out and want to fix it asap ---and start tearing stuff apart before thinking somtimes

[neba]

first get your truck running.then later you can play with dist. where the cap faces is determined by who put the wires in. you can point it any direction. the rotor distributes spark to each plug wire as it turns. so you could remove dist, turn rotor, and then you have to move all the plug wires in cap to match,keeping them in the same order. 18436572 is how they should follow. get a book at the library.it would make more sense if you can see a picture.

[highperf4x4]

To get the cap sitting like it did originally and still have your precut wires fit like they're supposed to then you'd want to unbolt the dizzy, lift it back up and spin the rotor counter clockwise a little bit. You just want to jump a few teeth on the worm gear and then stab it back. That's the proper way to do it as it will keep #1 where it should be on the cap.

Can you tell me what crate motor you have and which headers so I can avoid buying them?

80.00 for plugs is insane.

The only shorty plug I see from Accell on Summit that's over 10.00 is the double platinum. However, they have it in a standard u-groove for 3.95.


http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...rd=spark+plugs

[nrb's70gmc]

Originally Posted by highperf4x4

To get the cap sitting like it did originally and still have your precut wires fit like they're supposed to then you'd want to unbolt the dizzy, lift it back up and spin the rotor counter clockwise a little bit. You just want to jump a few teeth on the worm gear and then stab it back. That's the proper way to do it as it will keep #1 where it should be on the cap.

Can you tell me what crate motor you have and which headers so I can avoid buying them?

80.00 for plugs is insane.

The only shorty plug I see from Accell on Summit that's over 10.00 is the double platinum. However, they have it in a standard u-groove for 3.95.


http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...rd=spark+plugs

will rotating the rotor affect the timimg (or i guess because the hole thing is being rotated it should all line up again)????

i looked at summit also for prices on plugs and i can remember when i ordered these plugd from napa they came out to around $8.00 a piece, they did not come in a set either lol.

i love my headers (thorly tri y's) and the crate engine was just a basic long block from pep boys.

[crakarjax]

Check out rock auto for the plugs.

[nrb's70gmc]

UPDATE---- the truck runs pretty good it does have a tiny hesitation off idle but at least its movin lol.

[nrb's70gmc]

UPDATE truck is doing same thing (its not fixed yet damn it)

i drove the truck today for about 10 minutes than it sat for 1 1/2 hours then i dove it again for about 10 minutes (went to the gym 10 minutes there and 10 minutes back) it stat for a good 2 hours after that. then i drove it for about another ten minutes (i drove to the bank) i forgot somthing drove back to my house ( let the truck run while i ran in the house) then i drove it back to the bank as soon as i was pulling in the parking spot it stalled i put in park and tried to start it (nothing) i went into the bank for about five minutes came out and let the truck sit for another 5 minutes it started right up i was pulling out of the parking lot and it stalled-i managed to get it into a parking spot.

i sat there for about another 15 minutes i started the tuck up and drove home (about 10 minutes)

like i said before i dont know if the module that is in there is good or not but seeing i replaced everything else (in dist) im thinking it could be going bad (i also believe my spare module is bad)

I really dont think this is a spark plug issue because im getting spark and the truck ran fine today and the #1 plug did not look bad at all when i pulled it.

what do you guys think it may be?

[monte0185]

did you put the conductive grease on the bottom of the module for heat transfer? If the module is over heating it will cause this. Been awhile since I changed one in an HEI but im pretty sure it has to have it. I could be thinking of fords though.

[nrb's70gmc]

ya i put some dialictric grease on it (thin coat) maybe it was not enough-but like i said im working with a module that i dont even know if its a good one.

[Ackattack]

Originally Posted by monte0185

did you put the conductive grease on the bottom of the module for heat transfer? If the module is over heating it will cause this. Been awhile since I changed one in an HEI but im pretty sure it has to have it. I could be thinking of fords though.

yeah, it definatly needs the grease

[kevmic28]

I have the same problem. But only occasionally. When it dies if I floor it when I try to start it, it will start and run again.