Project 59 Apache "1st Build"

[yukon ratrod]

nice to see you scored a good cab! are you planning on using it or using it for parts? keep up the good work. Ive been busy working on my fathers 65 fastback mustang, so havent got to work on the truck for a few weeks. will post some picts of the mustang tonight! cheers

[Fat Mike]

I have the white 59 over at a friends house who is going to blast it for me for $50. I know that seams cheap but he does this for a living and is very good at it.

[hotrod1]

Keep Going. We am in the same boat. We am not that happy with my firewall either and am contemplating tearing it out and starting over. I think it is because we are perfectionists. I also expect that the metal should be good enough not to use filler. Not going to happen so I am told. I am sure there are a few guys here that can do that though.

[Fat Mike]

Last night was the first time I had time and felt up to working on my truck in awhile. I am still messing around with the first 59 truck cab that I had. I welded in a patch panel but can never seem to get it lined up so that when I sand it down it all blends in real well.







If you look at the finally picture you can still see all the welds and it would seem that I would have to use alot of body filler. But all the wholes are welded up. HAHA!!

[Kabwe]

Hey Fatmike

I'm only putting my 2 cents in because you asked me to take a look, I don't like sounding like a know it all. Work on panel fitment, when you butt weld try to have tighter gaps. If the metal is slightly touching that's great. Your gaps should not be wider then the welding wire. Shaped your patch to perfection before you start welding, and if you have access to back (in this case you don't) grind your welds and use you hammer on dolly to stretch the metal back to its original shape (welding causes shrinkage, sometimes very little but always) as you are welding it in. Now for metal finish I use a flap disc or a cut wheel to knock the weld down close, then I use a roloc disc on an air grinder and finish it off with a hand file when possible. Number one thing with sheetmetal is to keep the metal cool so take your time and give the metal time to cool. Thats why I work my welds as I'm welding it gives the metal time to cool as I am knocking down the weld beads. I hope this helped.

I think your problem in the above pic is the result of panel fitment and too my heat (looks like your patch panel warped). It took a lot of welding (heat) to close those gaps.

[hotrod1]

Nice description, I needed that.

[Kabwe]

Oh yeah when you hammer on dolly to stretch the metal, hammer only the HAZ (heat affected zone). The haz is the area where the metal changed colors from the heat. Back to keeping the metal cool while welding if you can't touch it with you bare hand its too hot to weld in that area. Skip around man, patience is a virtue is serious when doing patch work.

That will be 50 bucks and I do take checks.lol

[W.C. RoDz]

Well said!...Lookn good..

[Fat Mike]

Kawbe, you are definetly the man!! Thank you very much and I hope that if you ever need a hand, part. or money ($50 you said) let me know. LOL I live pretty far but, I am always looking for a reason to go to Cali.

[dewey777]

I also found it helps to grind down the welds as you go. Stitch, grind, stitch, grind, with cooling in between. That seemed to make it easier once you get down to stitching the welds together. Not sure if anyone else does it this way or not

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by dewey777

I also found it helps to grind down the welds as you go. Stitch, grind, stitch, grind, with cooling in between. That seemed to make it easier once you get down to stitching the welds together. Not sure if anyone else does it this way or not

I mentioned that, I just said it in a different way.lol But its a good point to keep bringing up because its very important for several reasons. 1. It allows the metal to cool while your work on the welds. 2. You can see where to tack or fill clearly. 3. After you grind you can work the area with your hammer on dolly to stretch the metal back to its original state.

If you want really nice metal finishing with minimal use of filler you need stretch that metal back to its original state. Don't wait to finish your bead to do it either its that much harder if you do that. You tack it in grind your welds hit the haz with the hammer on dolly. Then tack new areas grind your welds hit the haz with the hammer on dolly. You do this until its completely welded in. Now if you don't have access to the back you just tack and grind and keep the metal cool as you can.

[dewey777]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

I mentioned that, I just said it in a different way.lol But its a good point to keep bringing up because its very important for several reasons. 1. It allows the metal to cool while your work on the welds. 2. You can see where to tack or fill clearly. 3. After you grind you can work the area with your hammer on dolly to stretch the metal back to its original state.

Woops, i guess i was skim reading the thread! Sorry.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by dewey777

Woops, i guess i was skim reading the thread! Sorry.

No woops necessary, its a very important point. If you missed it others may have also.

[dewey777]

Hey Fat Mike, I am in the middle of the replacement of the lower front fender section. It is curently fitted and tacked in about every 1". I will take pictures of how I finish the repair and post them in a week or so. I can also take pictures of the backside of the weld so you can see the penetration.
I usually get in a zone and forget to take any pictures but I will try to remember this time.
I don't have near the experience of kawbe and I am not a body man or a welder but I have managed to get pretty decent at this. I have a friend who is a journeyman body man who still laps over all his patch panels and then fills with body filler! yuck. I have replaced my cab corners, lower doors (one side twice!), steps, filled the seam between the cab corner and rockers all with nothing more than a skim of body filler to smooth out imperfections.

I am by no means bragging - just stating that with some practice and patience anyone can do metalwork.

[ambryatim]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

I mentioned that, I just said it in a different way.lol But its a good point to keep bringing up because its very important for several reasons. 1. It allows the metal to cool while your work on the welds. 2. You can see where to tack or fill clearly. 3. After you grind you can work the area with your hammer on dolly to stretch the metal back to its original state.

If you want really nice metal finishing with minimal use of filler you need stretch that metal back to its original state. Don't wait to finish your bead to do it either its that much harder if you do that. You tack it in grind your welds hit the haz with the hammer on dolly. Then tack new areas grind your welds hit the haz with the hammer on dolly. You do this until its completely welded in. Now if you don't have access to the back you just tack and grind and keep the metal cool as you can.

Originally Posted by dewey777

Hey Fat Mike, I am in the middle of the replacement of the lower front fender section. It is curently fitted and tacked in about every 1". I will take pictures of how I finish the repair and post them in a week or so. I can also take pictures of the backside of the weld so you can see the penetration.
I usually get in a zone and forget to take any pictures but I will try to remember this time.
I don't have near the experience of kawbe and I am not a body man or a welder but I have managed to get pretty decent at this. I have a friend who is a journeyman body man who still laps over all his patch panels and then fills with body filler! yuck. I have replaced my cab corners, lower doors (one side twice!), steps, filled the seam between the cab corner and rockers all with nothing more than a skim of body filler to smooth out imperfections.

I am by no means bragging - just stating that with some practice and patience anyone can do metalwork.

I applaud you bothI am getting ready to do some body work myself and I can use all the tips and tricks you all have.

Fat Mike....keep up the work, like they say, patients is a virtue. Something we all need when it comes to restoring these old beauties.

[ambryatim]

Kawbe....
What kind of wire are you using??? Regular solid core??
I was wondering if you ever use/used Silica Bronze AKA....Silicone Bronze wire. I heard that it is a little more forgiving then regular solid wire. What do you think???

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by ambryatim

Kawbe....
What kind of wire are you using??? Regular solid core??
I was wondering if you ever use/used Silica Bronze AKA....Silicone Bronze wire. I heard that it is a little more forgiving then regular solid wire. What do you think???

I just use 023 regular mig wire with 75% Argon - 25% CO2 gas for patch panels. That is my personal choice I heard of people using 035 for patch panels with great success. The only specialty wire I heard of people using that is suppose to be good is something called 20 gauge. I have not tried it though, I don't like using anything that I can't run down the street and pick up if I happen to run out or be in a pinch. As much as I weld, I have to be able to run to homedepot or lowes in a pinch. I will use 025 wire (I can find that all day long) but I prefer 023 on body panels but that's just me. I think each person has to find what works for them no right or wrong just preference. Just remember this stuff is not rocket science its just practice and patience and don't make it harder than it is and you will be fine. The most important rules are patch panel fitment and to keep that metal cool.

[Fat Mike]

Kawbe I really appreciate the help. I have been welding small patch panels on the 59 and slowed down. Doing exaclty what you said and it is working much better. I am trying to add on to one of my shops so I will post some pictures soon!

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Fat Mike

Kawbe I really appreciate the help. I have been welding small patch panels on the 59 and slowed down. Doing exaclty what you said and it is working much better. I am trying to add on to one of my shops so I will post some pictures soon!

I'm glad to hear that, and please do post pics. I hope you don't mind that we used your thread for a little discussion on patch panels and welding.

[Fat Mike]

Hell no, I don't mind! You can use my thread anytime to post 101 classes. It has been very helpful.

[dewey777]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

I just use 0.23 regular mig wire with 75% Argon - 25% CO2 gas for patch panels. That is my personal choice I heard of people using 0.35 for patch panels with great success. The only specialty wire I heard of people using that is suppose to be good is something called 20 gauge. I have not tried it though, I don't like using anything that I can't run down the street and pick up if I happen to run out or be in a pinch. As much as I weld, I have to be able to run to homedepot or lowes in a pinch. I will use 0.25 wire (I can find that all day long) but I prefer 0.23 on body panels but that's just me. I think each person has to find what works for them no right or wrong just preference. Just remember this stuff is not rocket science its just practice and patience and don't make it harder than it is and you will be fine. The most important rules are patch panel fitment and to keep that metal cool.

Ditto, I use .023 and keep panels almost touching. I also use .030 if using butt clamps, the gap left is close to the wire size.

[jimig1]

I use the same wire and those clamps when I can they work great

[Kabwe]

dewey777

When I do use those clamps I grind the metal on one side where I will be using them the thickness of those clamps so that I can still butt the metal against each other. That way I only have to fill the area where the clamps were and I can still use my 023 wire. Just a thought.

jimig1,

You are right, they do work great. I hope you guys are not buying them from Eastwood they have them at Harbor Freight for cheap.

[dewey777]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

dewey777

When I do use those clamps I grind the metal on one side where I will be using them the thickness of those clamps so that I can still butt the metal against each other. That way I only have to fill the area where the clamps were and I can still use my 023 wire. Just a thought.

jimig1,

You are right, they do work great. I hope you guys are not buying them from Eastwood they have them at Harbor Freight for cheap.

Good idea, I will try that next time. I bought mine off ebay cheap. Can't find them local up here in Canada.

[hotrod1]

Great tips! Does Harbor Freight sell .23 wire also and tip for that size as well?