Timing problem

[67chevemall]

I can't see it being the gas tank. I would hook everything, leave out the filter for now( glass ones have issues). start the truck to fill up the fuel bowls, then pull the fuel line off the carb and put it in a jerry can. If it isn't a steady stream I would take the fuel pump off and check it out. Most likely need a pump if it isn't the fuel filter.

[So.Cal.Super]

The fuel sock would have been on the end of the tube connected to the sending unit you pulled. Some people run them, some don't.

You never want a fuel filter between the tank and the pump for vapor lock issues. after the pump is fine. Never run glass they are a fire hazard.

The hard line running right next to the block is factory style and should not be a problem. I would replace your line as longhair said for future problems.

mechanical pumps either pump or they don't at least in my experience. If it's bad it won't pump.

one thing I noticed but I am not sure about is I see one fuel line from the tank to the pump and no fuel return line. There maybe something with making sure the tank is vented through a hose or the cap for vapor lock issues, but someone with more experience will need to chime in on this.

[Double Stack]

67Chevemall, I appreciate the reply.
I pickup some new hose and ran it like you said. The new hose is still bone dry. I bought a new pump yesterday, but I haven’t installed it yet. This one is like new, but maybe like CC69Rat said- the diaphragm could have gone out from sitting. The only reason I was holding off installing was because I didn’t want to replace a part that didn’t need replacing. That and I thought it was weird that it would work sometimes but not others. I kinda thought the fuel pump would either work or it wouldn’t. Plus, it squirted gas on me when pulled it and worked the rocker. I could hear the suction too.

So.Cal.Super,
Thanks again for the Info and clarification on everything. I guess I’m going to pull my pump again and try and actually pump up some gas out of a jar. Let’s just say it’s not the pump...... what else could it be aside from a clogged tank? I’ve read up on this whole issue a lot now and have come across what you are talkin about with the cap. I’ve tried running it with the cap off, and on with no luck. I guess I could drill a hole in it like everyone else though. I do hear pressurized gases coming out sometimes when I open the tank.

******
On a side note- I found my camshaft data sheet mixed into some papers that came with the truck!! Can anybody tell me anything about this cam shaft aside what is says on summit? Good, bad, how to time an engine with a big cam now that I know the specs?

[So.Cal.Super]

Quick note, you can pull the hose off the carb and just have someone turn the engine over to see if you get a steady flow from the pump into a can or bucket while it's on the truck. I have to run, I hope you get this figured out. mine drove me nuts for months.


p.s. no thanks needed just glad I can offer some help.

[C20-67_N_MO]

Just looking at your cam specs it does not look like a "Big" lift camshaft. And you should have no issues with timing, as long as the timing chain marks are lined up correctly.

Are you now getting fuel pumping from your fuel tank now? Assuming a new fuel pump and the fuel tank have been cleaned out.

[RichardJ]

>>mechanical pumps either pump or they don't << Except when the diaphram is bad and they pump gas into the crankcase. (Dipstick level will rise.)

This thread seems to have gotten side tracked from "Timing Issue". I think the problem from the begining has been poorly or possibly never adjusted carburetor. Timing with the vacuum gauge got you farther away from where you needed to be.

Some of the info in the first couple of posts isn't painting as clear a picture as I would like.

If I am not mistaken, this engine was running at the time you tried to adjust timing. You need to get everything back to that point and start fresh.

With the fuel lines empty it can take a long time to get them filled back up cranking with a starter motor.
A fuel line problem on the pressure side between the pump and carb is easy to spot for obvious reasons.
A small leak on the suction side can go unnoticed. While the pump is sucking fuel it can also pull small amounts of air in along with the fuel. It is possible that it may not pull air in if the fuel is flowing well, but if the line is empty, it may be easier to pull air through the leak, than to pull fuel UP from the bottom of the tank. When the engine is off, that small air leak will have no pressure from either side and may not leak any fuel.

I have no issues with the glass filter as long as they are not on the engine. As long as they are mounted securely in a safe place on the frame with a little vibration insulation they are fine. I have seen a number of them broken and it has always been from an errant wrench.

One more thing.
Dump that extra rubber hose at the tank. It is illegal. NO rubber fuel hoses ever allowed inside the operator or passenger compartment of any vehicle. Fed regs and all sanctioned racing organizations. Those fittings should match up even if you have to put a slight bend in the one coming out of the tank. It is also an extra location for a possible air leak. It is also an extra loop to trap air.

If you have an air compressor, set the pressure to 5-10 psi. Wrap a rag around your air nozzle and blow into the tank filler neck. If the tank oil-cans, release the valve, but keep the rag tight to seal the pressure. Continue until the carb accelerator pump works. IT will push fuel right through the pump and any leaks, anywhere will start leaking.

If it doesn't start and run at this point you will have to get the timing closer. You had the distributor out somewhere in the middle of this so I'm not sure where you are there.

[Double Stack]

So.Cal.Super,
I tried that, and then I pulled the pump again. I filled a glass with gas, stuck the hose from the pump in, and compressed the rocker a little bit..... Even with my quarter inch dapreshion it still shot gas a good two plus feet. I then pulled the line from the sending unit in the cab, and blew air towards the fuel pump with the line off. Good to go. Then I tried blowing air from the line into the tank with the cap off- good to go again. So then I pulled the tank out drained it, inpected it, and it looks great!! I reinstalled it, poured fuel in the carb, ran the truck twice, and then just turned it over for a bit trying to bring fuel back to the pump. Not a drop. Another fun day....

C20-67 N Mo,
Thank you for the information. That’s great to know. Nope, I’m still not getting any gas.

RichardJ,
Good to know, but I’m good on the fuel getting into the crank case.
I noticed the choke wasn’t set right after I watched an edelbrock video on youtube, so I adjusted that. I’ve noticed the choke gets HOT if I leave the key to the on position. Not start, just on. It’s not wired into the starter though, it’s into the circuit board like the video said. Anyways, other than that I’m not really sure if it is set correctly. It seams really easy when watching the edelbrock videos. Only other thing I think I might want to adjust is the fast idle for the choke because I don’t think that’s set right either.
Are you saying that it not being timed perfectly will stop fuel flow from the tank? Even when it was running, it was hit and miss when it would start. That’s why I got the new 795 CCA battery. That helped, but it was still hit and miss with fuel.

Thank you for all the info- it’s a great help. I will ditch the soft line at the tank. I need a friend to help me with the fuel test though. I tired and couldn’t see anything. Either I have no leak, or I need another pair of hands for a minute.

The truck will still start and run every time I pour fuel into the carb

[So.Cal.Super]

First off every one of these fuel tanks I have seen is connected to the metal fuel lines in the cab by a few inches of rubber hose. Usually not by as much as seen in the pic, but if there is another way I’m always eager to learn.

IMO Glass fuel filters no matter how they are mounted are trouble; I have seen 3 vehicles burn because of them. It’s just not worth the risk.

Double stack, you have mentioned vacuum, what kind of carb are you running and where are your vacuum lines connected to the engine/manifold, a pic may help.

1 last dumb question for the night, I know you have had the pump in and out a few times, is the fuel pump rod lined up correct.
Here is a link to longhorn man’s trick to making it easy.


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=138417

[car guy]

Hi! looks like you are at about 5 degrees advanced I would pull vacuum advance ahead about 1/2 " more that will be a good starting point! with fuel in tank ( not just what gauge say's) lines hooked up and no gas from line at carb, hold hacksaw blade in pump hole against push rod make sure rod is stroking (rare but maybe lobe on cam is worn) if good movement try new pump! to set choke lift fast idle cam up with throttle held open then let throttle go, this will allow you to adjust choke housing, loosen screws slightly and turn until choke flap closes then 1/4 inch more, tighten screws (this is to be done when choke stat is cold) after 3-5 minutes of running choke should be open and tension holding open! Good luck!

[C20-67_N_MO]

Originally Posted by car guy

Hi! looks like you are at about 5 degrees advanced I would pull vacuum advance ahead about 1/2 " more that will be a good starting point!

How in the world can you tell what his timing is set at? Just because there is a picture of the balancer and timing mark does not mean thats what the actual timing is really set at.

[Double Stack]

So.Cal.Super,
So I’ll shorten the hose between the lines- thank you. I’m all over the fuel filter, I picked up a polished alumenum one yesterday.

The carb is an Edelbrock 1406 with electric choke. Her’s a pic I took of the carb earlier. In the back is the vac line for the power brakes. I’m going to spray carb cleaner around the base today to check for a vac leak.

When I reinstalled the gas pump, I did it as the instructions said to for the new pump. “Angle pump for correct rocker position, and tighten down while keeping pump angled. You will hear/feel the rocker being compressed into position.” I looked at your link, thanks, and then I watched a video on youtube too where a guy uses needle nose plyers and a saw blade. I guess it’s more complicated then the instructions let on. Nothing new there. I’ll do it again just to be safe, but this all was happening before I pulled it. I’m going to try and run this beast off a gas can today with new hose. That will tell me if there’s a leak in the line that’s on the truck like RichardJ was talking about. Just a different method.

CarGuy,
Thank you for the reply and info. I really don’t have the cash to throw the other pump on there just for the hell of it. That’s why I tested the other one. I’ve got good piece of mind that my pump works fine.

C20-67 N MO,
That’s not what my timing is set at actually. I ended up dropping it in at 15 dagrees before top dead because that’s were it kept coming up on the compression stroke. That and the guy’s at MSD that do videos on youtube said 11 to 12 before top dead for a stock engine, and a little more for performance engines. I figured with what they were sayin, and where mine was hitting top dead it was were it needed to be. Wrong or what?

[Double Stack]

I don’t know how I forgot to mention this, but here’s what I fond in my tank. Everything looks to be on the older side.

[Double Stack]

Hold the phone!! RichardJ- I owe you a case of beer!! I wanted to make sure about something you said, so drained some oil from my pan.... Sure as shet it smells like gas!! Aside from knowing the pump is bad now what all needs to be done? And what about it not pulling gas from the tank? I was under the impression it should still pull gas from the tank, but it would be pushing it into the block instead. Wrong? What kinda damage will that do to my engine having gas in it? I feel kinda dumb, but hell the other one was pushing gas in my tests! Plus, my oil level was good.

Thank you again man!!

[car guy]

Dear C20-67_N_MO "how in the world do I know his timing is 5 degrees?" I read all messages he posted and I assume he was at top dead center # 1 and timing mark was at 5 degrees and rotor was pointing at # 1 mark on his distributor base!!! I am not just back yard guy giving uneducated opinion, I have 33 years as Mechanic and 26 years Canada wide Licenced! Worked on lots of these older trucks in late 70's and early 80's, back when they were every day drivers!

Thanks Rick

[CC69Rat]

Hey! I said fuel pump too! kidding. I didn't know it would push gas into the block though.. But it makes sense that it would.

Sounds like you have about got it figured out man!
Posted via Mobile Device

[car guy]

Dear Double Stack Your old pump was still pulling gas from tank, that is where the gas has to come from! but instead of pushing it up to carb it was dumping into crankcase, very good job at finding that!

[Double Stack]

I got her going!! I changed my oil and filter, starter her up and at first she was racing, so I turned her idle down. I let her warm up, and then turned the idle back up a bit. Then I took her out for a drive, and she ran great and shut off clean. The only thing I noticed is when I start the engine and give it gas a I get a squeal. So I’m thinking I’m just a little bit advanced, and I need to retard my time a bit. Anybody? Also, when I let the engine sit for a bit, I had to pump fuel back into the carb again to get her started. Is there any way to cure this?

I replaced the hard fuel line, and mine turned out even better. Now the radiator hose isn’t smashed up against it, and it never touches the block. I picked up a bender at harbor freight that worked killer. I also added more soft hose, and the polished aluminum filter.

Tomorrow I can start to fine tune her hopefully, install a steering stabilizer on the front axle, and install the tail lights.

Car guy,
Thanks for the help, and clarification. I was more wondering about the old pump still pumping gas out the filler line hole along with into the crank. I think the pump was obviously bad, but the kinked line wasn’t helping any either.

CC69Rat,
Hell I owe everyone that helped out a few bears. You and everyone else really did help. Now if I could only get you guy’s to turn the wrenches for me!!

So.Cal.Super,
I ended up using grease to keep the rocker rod up in the pump housing. It worked great for me. The other methods looked way more involved- this was just plane easy. Thanks again.

[car guy]

Congratulations on getting truck running, there is some very good info on this sight! Everyone means well I'm sure! As for squeal on revving engine check belts? advanced timing does not cause squeal it is a ping or rattle sound and it won"t do that unless it is under load!(brake stand or accelerating hard while driving) as for parts you found in tank, look like parts from broken locking gas cap??

Thanks

[So.Cal.Super]

Originally Posted by car guy

Congratulations on getting truck running, there is some very good info on this sight! Everyone means well I'm sure! As for squeal on revving engine check belts? advanced timing does not cause squeal it is a ping or rattle sound and it won"t do that unless it is under load!(brake stand or accelerating hard while driving) as for parts you found in tank, look like parts from broken locking gas cap??

Thanks

Ahh, was wondering wth those were.

Congrats!

and the only other thing about the belt squeal is if you had them adjusted too tight and you were tweaking a bearing.
Also, being you found gas in the oil you may want to take it easy and do another oil change sooner then later. since it wasn't running long with gas in the block it probably is fine. but then I don't have that kind of luck and I would change it just to make sure all the thinned oil is out.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[RichardJ]

So.Cal.Super
>every one of these fuel tanks I have seen is connected to the metal fuel lines in the cab by a few inches of rubber hose.<

The original connection is simple, clean and permanent. I cannot think of a single logical reason to connect it differently. That pickup in the picture is either not a good reproduction or is for a different application. Looking at LMC and Classic Industries catalogs, there are more than one for the '67-'71 and two more for '72. The aftermarket are about $50 and the Delco $200. I think a tubing bender could remedy this situation here.

C20-67_N_MO
>How in the world can you tell what his timing is set at?< I completely agree.
The only thing that photo really shows is that if he used the "0" deg mark on the balancer, it would line up to the "5" deg mark on the timing tab or the alternative would be to use the "0" deg on the timing tab and "5" deg on the balancer. He could also use a dial-back timing light. Lining up the "0" deg on the tab with the "0" deg on the balancer, he would read "5" deg on the dial-back.
The other thing the photo shows is that the camera wasn't lined up directly perpendicular to the marks and there is a slight parallax error. just kidding.

[Double Stack]

Thanks guy’s- I’m pretty stoked!!

CarGuy,
This sight kicks ass!! I need to drop the cash on a premium membership. I lubricated the belts, and the squeeking stopped. Thank you. Good thinkin on the pieces in the gas tank. It must have been from an older one because mine still works.

So.Cal.Super,
I’m totally with yea on the oil. I put in some on sale QuakerState Oil, and I’ll change it again in a few days with something of higher quality. Thanks for the heads up!


RichardJ
The tank looks to be out of a 1964 seeing as it’s written on the tank in the corner. I’ll do what I can to clean the connection up. Thanks again guy’s.

as far as timing- I don’t think I could have got it any better. Especially for my first time. I didn’t even have to adjust the distributor. I dropped it in at 15 degrees before top dead.

********
Other than that, I can’t mount my light (front or rear) until I get hardware on probably Tuesday because of the holiday. The steering stabilizer is another story. So the instructions say to mount it on my axle where I have no room. I think it’s because this is an axle off of a 71 or 71 with disc brakes. So that’s kina throwing me for a loop. I think there’s a mounting bracket just for a stabilizer though so stoked! See second pic. Is that a bracket for a steering stabilizer bracket? If not, can I use it? Then I would just have to mount the stabilizer to the drag link.
How should I mount this thing?

[BMERDOC]

I think its awesome you got it running!! It's good to see that kinda thing happen because you seemed to take to it like a fish in water! Now go huntin'!!

[Double Stack]

Thanks man! It was too cool of you to shoot the shet about this on the phone with me.

I want to go hunting so bad, but i think i should drive this beast around for a day or two before hit the mountain. Not to mention I still don't have lights front or rear.

I got the steering stabilizer on though! You got to love an axle with a mount already on it!! The only thing that was weird was that the torque specs said 15 to 17lbs, so I set my wrench to 15 and the bracket started to bend/flex around the drag link. I stopped, but should I keep going or what? Anybody?

[81ShrtBox]

Nice info... I gave had the manual pumps fail before so i always try to do electric pumps. I was about to blame the carb or the distributer because i was having the same problem and from the pictures we both have the same carb and distributer I did put a new manual pump and was about to try a electric but need to make sure I'm getting good suction from the tank. I'm scared to mess with it because I'm afraid it will run so good i wont wanna do my Z06 swap I know i have to have a fuel problem... a cammed vortec has to have more pep than this

The guys on here are real informative... best i've seen so far

[Autoblueprint]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

The kink in the fuel line is a problem that needs to be addressed. It is probably not restricting enough to keep the thing from running, but it should be fixed. At bare minimum it is a potential for a crack/leak.

I agree. The kink in the fuel line won't keep the engine from idle...but it WILL cause a highway speed surge...REPLACE this fuel line...it WILL create drivability problems...you might have to have someone custom bend you one because of the aftermarket carb...a new stock line will not fit correctly...I'd suggest a transmission shop...they usually have experience in bending transmission cooler lines and should be able to bend you a metal line that fits and has smooth radius. You will have to put the kinked line back on...then take it to a trans shop and ask them to fit you a proper fuel line. It will be expensive but cheaper than repairing and engine bay fire. DO NOT use a rubber line either...that is NOT a fix...steel lines are used because they transverse the HOT intake manifold and a rubber line WILL eventually leak and cause a FIRE.