Are New NOS GM door handles "defects/seconds"?

[special-K]

They didn't have bar codes in '72 and for years beyond. The grilles GM was selling up until recently were not N.O.S.,they were new and reproduced. They are from the GM Restoration Parts program. We've all seen how a car maker doesn't care about replacement parts once a vehicle drops back so many years. If you can't find the part or don't want junkyard parts then buy a new car. That's their attitude. There had to be a law made to force them to carry parts for what they sell for 10 years. It took GM selling companies licensing for them to see the market was good on parts for older vehicles. It wasn't always this way. GM realized they could sell these same parts. In fact,they could even use the GM part numbers and,of course,package them in GM boxes. Some parts may very well be as good as the original. But the fact is they are not the original parts used on these trucks nor are they made by the same jobbers. Companies like Golden State Pickup Parts originally went all over the country systematically buying up N.O.S. which lead to a more rapid depletion of parts surpluses. Individuals did the same things and I was one. I stopped buying up stuff once the GM Parts Restoration program began because I had no way of knowing what I was getting and I could get the same parts anywhere. Golden State also bought old GM tooling that survived and started remaking some parts. They also made tooling that didn't survive to GM specs from original GM prints. The point is,there are many reproduction parts made that are just as good as original and some that aren't close. How do you know other than "buy and try" or finding out here. With true N.O.S. you know you are getting the same part as what came on the truck and that's why it costs more. A part that was re-made after original parts were depleted isn't worth any more if it was made 20 years ago or 20 days ago. Even if a part has been continually made,a part that was made in 67-72 is still N.O.S. Most likely that N.O.S. part won't be as expensive as a part that dealers haven't had for 20+ years.

[lolife99]

Here's a picture of the current "barcode" version.
The white box on the right,... is a NOS handle I ordered about 15-20 years ago from my local GM dealer.
I'm not sure if the "white box" version would be counted as an "original run" of parts or not, since it was purchased in the early 1990's.

[teeitup]

here is the one I have

[PICKMUP]

NOS or not NOS...If it is made in USA & in a GM box with a GM part # (and high price) it should be good! These handles (that I got) are j-u-n-k! Just saying...ask the seller open them and check them BEFORE they ship them to you!
If the buttons won't return, sticking or the insides are riveted off center, that should be clear to everyone and priced accordingly.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by PICKMUP

NOS or not NOS...If it is made in USA & in a GM box with a GM part # (and high price) it should be good! These handles (that I got) are j-u-n-k! Just saying...ask the seller open them and check them BEFORE they ship them to you!
If the buttons won't return, sticking or the insides are riveted off center, that should be clear to everyone and priced accordingly.

Man, you have me reconsidering even buying a set of these. It might be better to just get some oem handles rechromed?
I always thought Gm stuff was the best to buy?
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[darkhorse970]

I agree, this puts a twist on the "NOS parts" that are still out there for me. I have to question if I'm really getting what I think I'm paying for...

[29od1]

I suppose all these recent ones could be reproductions with a printed label, a cardboard box and a copper staple? I wouldn't think it'd be that hard to fake the packaging.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by 29od1

I suppose all these recent ones could be reproductions with a printed label, a cardboard box and a copper staple? I wouldn't think it'd be that hard to fake the packaging.

It would be very easy to countfeit the packaging. The parts now that's a little different story. All the repros I have seen are noticeably repros. I suppose if there is a market and at $200+ a pair that's incentive enough. I know there are some chinese companies that make pretty much exact copies of many items found on ebay. You have to be real careful, I heard the other day they are even countfeiting BMWs and Mercedes.

[70LonghornCST]

I just came across this thread. I did not want to be erroneous in my post as I wanted to put some careful thought and do a little research before making any comments. As someone who collects NOS parts, I can assure you that the recent influx of NOS door handles that have surfaced came from a closed dealership when GM downsized after our recent recession began. The handles were sold at an auction and purchased by someone who had some insight, but not enough background to appropriately price them; hence, the lower than usual pricing (After doing some research, this person has let me know that the price is going up as they have been sold too cheap) I have had several NOS sets of handles prior to these sets, and with different box styles, most from the 80s, 90s, and early 00s. I managed to get a few more sets, but will not be getting any more after what I have left is gone.

(Different box styles that I have)





If there is any board member on this site that purchases NOS parts and inspects them with as careful of an eye for differences and variations of NOS parts from the beginning of our 67-72 parts run until discontinued, only a few come to mind that do it with as much fanatics as I do. Sometimes I feel that my hobby has turned into an obsession.

Nevertheless, here are some observations to help address concerns I have noted:

BOX

When comparing the newer batch of NOS handles’ boxes to the earlier 80s version box, you can see that both were made by Bay Corrugated Container Inc. and have the requirement seal. They do differ a bit, but it is not uncommon for companies to change the look of packaging from one decade to the next.



CASTING NUMBERS

When comparing the newer NOS handle to the ones I have from the 80s, there is no difference.



CHROME / MECHANICS

All of the NOS handles have owned have been the same: none are perfect, all have some flaw somewhere, and the markings in every spot of the handle are identical. I am talking all of the earlier versions that I have owned, including these. If you are looking for flawless chrome, you will need to open many boxes and search. GM did not produce their parts for perfection. From the many NOS items that I have owned and currently own, I can assure you that very few are flawless.

It is sad that Frank and others have had problems. I have opened all of my boxes and inspected each part as if I were going to use it myself.
I only found one handle with a notable flaw (speck) in the chrome. It is a small speck where the chrome did not adhere correctly. However, there are minute blemishes that can be seen on virtually all of the handles. Very few make it out blemish-free. For example, door sills. NOS door sills are anything but high quality and well-polished. Most have a rough surface where the chrome was not buffed out thoroughly. However, the aftermarket door seal shine bright and smooth.

GM BARCODES

GM began barcoding their replacement parts sometime in the 90s when computer inventory began to take hold. Keep in mind, that the barcodes were used to eliminate paperwork. Existing part numbers were assigned a bar code that corresponds to that number. Keep in mind, just because it’s GM, does not mean that it’s NOS. NOS simply refers to a replacement part that is new that is no longer produced. There are many variations of this, based on production runs. Many parts from earlier production runs are impossible to differentiate from newer production runs, while some are more apparent (i.e. casting/part numbers missing or different). I have posted some various NOS parts with barcodes (85 fender, inner door handle, radiator cap, washer pump, random part)









PLEASE NOTE: Barcodes have changed, and you can see this often times when a new label is stuck right over an older label. You can see that on Randy’s (teeitup) picture, and I have posted some as well. Notice the different placement of the print due to the change of the barcode length. Why? Not sure. Counterfeits? No. Let’s think critically here for a moment: If by theory, someone had taken the time to locate the original tooling for the handles, recreate the boxes down to the last detail, the probability of recreating an old version of a barcode label, and then making a newer version of a barcode label to apply directly on top is less than that of winning the Powerball Lotto. No crook would put that much effort (or have that much brains to think it through) for a $200 dollar part that has a limited market.

(See the imprint of the old label under the new label)



GM ORDER TAG

On one of the door handles that I bought, it had the original GM order tag for the LH handles. Quantity is for 107 LH handles. Compare it the GM Bulk order tag for door bumpers. It has the same format.

(See Pictures)




Again, If by theory, someone had taken the time to locate the original tooling, recreate the boxes down to the last detail, created two versions of the label (sticking one on top of another) AND recreating an order tag and sticking it on only one box ( I have not seen any more on the LH door handles besides this one) makes no sense.

My overall feeling on these handles

They are genuine GM parts. They are later production runs and are NOS because they are no longer made. Few are flawless, but most NOS parts are not. I know that the there is a high level of subjectivity in terms of how old a part has to be before some accept it as NOS. Here is some food for thought: wine does not have to be aged 40 years to be wine. A 10 year old bottle of wine may not be as desired by certain connoisseurs as the 40 year old bottle, but it is still wine. However, the buyer has to be happy with their purchase.

I hope this post helps.
-Richard

[VA72C10]

Thanks for your well thought out post and good info!!! I agree 100%

[70LonghornCST]

Originally Posted by VA72C10

Thanks for your well thought out post and good info!!! I agree 100%

Thanks, Jonathan. I fixed the pictures so they don't take up two screens worth of space.

[PT'S 70 CST]

Guys I have to agree with Richard. With GM downsizing over the last few years and the dealerships across the US closing there have been a ton of dealerships that have been around for many years close down and what you guys have to think about is the inventory that these places are sitting on. I will give you one good example. There was a dealership in my home town here in Batesburg, SC. that had been in business since the early 40's and when they were part of the GM downsizing and closed their doors it was very sad. My good friend had been the parts manager at that dealership for 20+ years and when they shut down me and another good friend of mine had the privilege to be the first ones to get into several warehouses that this dealership had because of my buddy holding the keys and I have to tell you that it was packed full of parts and it just blew my mind at all of the stuff that was in these buildings. I was able to get a good bit of truck stuff. So just think this was just in my small town here in SC. and that does not scratch the surface to the huge GM dealerships across the country that closed down so I think you are just starting to see these parts surface more and more here lately.


PT

[29od1]

Richard that's a good write up, thanks for taking the time to do it. Do you know what part of the country all the influx of these handles are from?

[72 tigger]

Richard, Nice write up explaining NOS parts- very well done!

[mcbassin]

Thank you for Richard for the excellent read and information. I'm realitively new to "colllecting" NOS parts. It's good to know this influx of handles are genuine. I wish I had the connections you guys do with the seller(s) I want a set of handles but I just don't have it in the budget to pop $200+ right now.

[70LonghornCST]

Originally Posted by 29od1

Richard that's a good write up, thanks for taking the time to do it. Do you know what part of the country all the influx of these handles are from?

Originally Posted by 72 tigger

Richard, Nice write up explaining NOS parts- very well done!

Originally Posted by mcbassin

Thank you for Richard for the excellent read and information. I'm realitively new to "colllecting" NOS parts. It's good to know this influx of handles are genuine. I wish I had the connections you guys do with the seller(s) I want a set of handles but I just don't have it in the budget to pop $200+ right now.

Thank you, everyone. As far as where all these handle are from, the seller is from the USA and were purchased here as well. All evidence on the handles leads me to believe that they were tooled here, as they match up well the the 80s handle that I have. Usually, when something goes overseas for reproduction, the tooling changes. For example, the license light lenses that are being remade bear a new stamp: They no loger say L67 GUIDEIT they now say L67 GMIT and the packaging says made in China. The door handles still say USA.

Off to work.
-Richard

[special-K]

Thanks for the good info,Richard. When I referred to anything with a bar code not being N.O.S. I should have specified "on the box" as opposed to on a sticker.Once the bar code system was implemented any old stock would have received a sticker,otherwise it would be unaccounted for. I suppose some dealerships could still have parts for these trucks in their stock. But,that's another thing that happened with the event of computerized inventory. Vendors like Golden State systematically searched the nation for desirable N.O.S. parts and cleaned it out. This was right about the time GM Restoration Parts began and another reason I stopped stashing parts.
One thing to remember is with auto makers there is a grey area with N.O.S. and repro. Technically,there is no such thing as repro with auto makers. Anything they make is OEM. They are all categorized as factory replacement parts...it's their part. They can use the same part numbers. With GM Restoration Parts,they had sold the rights for companies to make and market their parts to specs they approved. Then,they decided to start buying those parts from the people who they licensed and selling them as GM Restoration Parts. How is that any different than if they run short on supply of a part for a 2012 truck and have more made by,perhaps,a different jobber this time...and maybe even in another country. For that matter,maybe the first batch of parts was already made abroad...these days.
If a car company chooses,they can keep making replacement parts forever and the jobber can change from run to run. Or,as with older vehicles when they didn't care,they can start making replacement parts after decades of them being depleted. Back when these trucks were made and a coupe decades to follow,the only fender,grilles,emblem,etc. you could buy was a GM one. There was no aftermarket and that is where the value in N.O.S. comes from. Some may not see any difference and others do. To those that do,only a part that was made that could have been part of a truck off the line just as easily as put on a shelf for replacement (by the same company) is a desired N.O.S. part and anything beyond that is questionable as to whether it's any better than a quality reproduction part. In fact,it may be made by the same company and just put in a different box.

I'm not saying any of this is the case with these particular door handles. Just giving my perspective on something to consider when buying N.O.S. About 5 years ago I tried to buy,in a long shot,the chrome trim piece for a console at the dealership. They couldn't be sure if it was it by the description,but they found one left in the country described as chrome trim-console. I ordered it no matter what it was going to turn out to be. It ended up being the ashtray. That's what the bar codes do for us. It found the last remaining ashtray in the system in TX. Many times when I order parts they will tell me how many remain in surpluses. Now,it depends on how they search...there are options. Dealer to dealer is something they rarely do. They normally check regional warehouses (mine is Martinsburg,WV),then a little farther,then Flint,then national. They give me the option of getting the part from another dealer,but can't give as good of a discount.

[PICKMUP]

Originally Posted by PICKMUP

NOS or not NOS...If it is made in USA & in a GM box with a GM part # (and high price) it should be good! These handles (that I got) are j-u-n-k! Just saying...ask the seller open them and check them BEFORE they ship them to you!
If the buttons won't return, sticking or the insides are riveted off center, that should be clear to everyone and priced accordingly.

Notice the NOS button won't even come out, as on originals. The insides are binding from being riveted way OFF CENTER. The other one just blew apart when the binding button was pushed in---by hand---no tools used. These are not "imperfections"...these are "defects", and should not be sold as nice new GM parts. It is not the seller's fault, but they still should not sell them in this condition. It seems reasonable to ask the seller to check & guarantee the condition of the parts they are selling.

[PICKMUP]

I think these show one of the problems. The NOS handles were off center as you can see by the big gap/space on one end and contact on the other. The original handle is evenly spaced and travels smoothly through the entire range.

[davepl]

I only use date-coded parts on my restoration, so these would not suit my purposes, as they were made after the original production run. I even bought a compressor out of an old run-down service station because when I'm done I want to ensure the tires are filled with NOS air.

The hardest part has been locating the fluids. I've got eight steel can quarts of Havoline 5W30 but its sort of gelled over the years. I'm hoping I can warm it up on the stove and skim the bad stuff off, but we'll see how it goes.

The RG59 battery I have has never had eloctrolyte in it ($2500 on eBay) and I think I'll have to cave and use modern acid, hoping the judges won't see it. I've been scanning the chemical liquidators for the correct vintage, but no luck to date.

[SeventyOne]

Originally Posted by davepl

I want to ensure the tires are filled with NOS air.

..NOS air

[70LonghornCST]

Originally Posted by PICKMUP

Notice the NOS button won't even come out, as on originals. The insides are binding from being riveted way OFF CENTER. The other one just blew apart when the binding button was pushed in---by hand---no tools used. These are not "imperfections"...these are "defects", and should not be sold as nice new GM parts. It is not the seller's fault, but they still should not sell them in this condition. It seems reasonable to ask the seller to check & guarantee the condition of the parts they are selling.

Frank,

Wow! That handle looks horrible. All the way around. It looks nothing like any of the ones I have purchased or have left. On all of the ones I have had and have left, the buttons work smoothly and return as they should. On your handles, the chrome looks VERY BAD. Those are not representative of any of any of the ones I have. I have checked all of mine and they look great and operate very nicely. I would ask for a refund or at least an exchange. That should not have happened. It should be honored in my opinion.

-Richard

[davepl]

Originally Posted by SeventyOne

..NOS air

I was kidding about all of it, of course, but when I was looking for an RG59 reproduction there actually -was- an NOS one for sale for $2000 that had never had electrolyte in it. I guess they're worth what someone will pay, and maybe there's an L-88 Corvette out there that needs one, but sadly they're still only good for a couple of years.

[Sicklajoie]

Originally Posted by 70LonghornCST

Sometimes I feel that my hobby has turned into an obsession.

This may be the biggest understatement I've ever seen on this board.

[Iron Hauler]

If this sudden influx was from dealers closing then shouldn't there be other NOS parts popping up? And why we're dealerships sitting on such large quantities of door handles?
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