Ol John Lee's gettin a new front end.

[Sharps40]

Some better pics of putting the spring back in right so it don't slip or squeek.

Just gettin things in place. Lots of tension comeing so I use two jacks and make every effort to stay out from under the control arm and no fingers inside the spring once the tension on the spring is more than a smig.



Here the lower coil end is properly set in the groove in the lower control arm.



Just a whisker of upward tension to assure the top of the coil surrounds the tennon in the spring hat that fits between the conrtol arms....once this and the bottom are aligned, get clear and start jacking up the lower control arm. Check along the way to be sure they stay in their seats and expect to hear some popping and movement around as the spring comes under greater and greater tension.



Here the lower control arm is up and the jack is holding it. The spindle is back on the ball joint studs with a jack holding it. I am putting nuts on the ball joint shafts and getting ready to torque them into place so I can get the jacks out and stop worryin about something going BAM into the floor.



And here, the drivers side cleaned, and everything installed and torqued and greased. Just gotta go to the shop to get the Idler and Pitman arms installed and get an alignment.

[Sharps40]

Here is the completed and cleaned and greased passenger side install. Measurments from the edge of the backing plate to the detent ball of the lower control arm zirk fittings indicate the track width is within 1/4" of being the the same. Good enough to drive for now, I'll get an alignment with the other parts installed in a couple weeks.



Ol John Lee sits a bit higher in the front now. The ride is amazing, firm, no wander, no crashing wide in the turns, bumps are tamed, potholes ignored. The steering inputs are much more responsive....can't wait to get the idler/pitman and rag joint replaced. Very nice. I may forgo the steering box replacment after all. We shall see what Santa puts in the stocking...I'm hopeing for a 327 and a steering box.



One last little job in the moring if its raining and I can't go out hunting,....just gotta spin the steering wheel back to where it belongs. A good bit of slop removed from the system in this tighten up and the wheel moved just shy of a quarter turn.

[dantimdad]

Question, if you don't mind...

I bought replacement bushings for my control arm shafts from LMC. The tops went in easy however, the bottoms are an absolute bear!

Do you have a trick for getting the shafts back in with the new bushings?

Thanks,
Steven

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by dantimdad

Question, if you don't mind...

I bought replacement bushings for my control arm shafts from LMC. The tops went in easy however, the bottoms are an absolute bear!

Do you have a trick for getting the shafts back in with the new bushings?

Thanks,
Steven

Steven,

I greased the bushings internal and external, greased the inside of the bushing seals, greased the internal threads on the control arm ears. Then, as you can see, lots of grunting even with a very long handled 3/4" drive wrench. It was a lot easier to do the passenger lower as there was room to work both bushings on the truck with the shaft bolted down solid. The drivers side had to be done on the floor, unless yer willing to remove the exhaust system to make room for that big wrench.

Either way, its all muscle and I gotta tell ya, I hit the hot tub for 30 minutes tonight and them lower bushings damn near broke me. If I had it to do again, I'd do it on a lift with the exhaust removed and with an extension on that big wrench to make it about 4 ft long.

[dantimdad]

I think I will take pics of what I am talking about.

All I replaced was the seals. I can't get the shafts with the seals on them back onto the arms. The problem is they won't compress enough, I think. I even tried rolling one of them inside out and then rolling it back but that didn't work either.

BTW, What are the torque specs for the upper ball joint bolts?

Thanks so much for your help!

Steven

[dougf]

This is awesome, this is exactly what I am going to do over the next several days of vacation!

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by dantimdad

I think I will take pics of what I am talking about.

All I replaced was the seals. I can't get the shafts with the seals on them back onto the arms. The problem is they won't compress enough, I think. I even tried rolling one of them inside out and then rolling it back but that didn't work either.

BTW, What are the torque specs for the upper ball joint bolts?

Thanks so much for your help!

Steven

Okay. I thought your trouble was with installing the bushings. I did not know that control arm seals were even available separatly. In my case, I simply removed the old bushings and shaft, slipped the new shafts into place with slight compression of one seal and then spun on the new bushings.

I have no "Official" list of torques for this job. Too much contrairy data floating around and nothing in my Motors Manuals either. So, where I could I went with the torque specs provided with some of the Moog parts. Where there was no data I used the specs for grade 8 bolts of similar size.

For example. The confusion abounds. In the case of the upper ball joint I found specifications for the retention bolts from 40 to 60 ft lbs and for the spidle nuts the torque varied from as low as 40 ft lbs to as high as 90 ft lbs.

A good chart (i.e. one with a recognized pedegre) of suspension torque specs by year/model would be lovely.

[Sharps40]

For this job, the following parts were used. The list is provided to assist your research should you also be contemplating a Front Suspension overhaul. The subject truck is a 1964, 1/2 ton base model Chevy C10, SBSS, 283 V8 with 3 speed muncie 318.

Advance Auto Parts:

Driveworks Tie Rod DW-ES323L: 2 each
Moog Ball Joint K6024: 2 each
Driveworks Ball Joint DW-K6023: 2 each
Driveworks Suspension Control Arm Shaft Kit DW-K6098: 2 each
Moog Coil Spring Set 6082: 1 each

LMC Truck:

Idler Arm 34-2112: 1 each (yet to be installed, see thread)
Pitman Arm 34-2210: 1 each (yet to be installed, see thread)
Tie Rod End Inner 34-1901: 2 each
Shaft Assembly Lower A Arm 34-1212: 2 each

[bj383ss]

Thanks so much for the part numbers. I too have this project up next after the holidays are over.

Bret

[Sharps40]

Glad to help. Good luck with your suspension!

[Sharps40]

Tonight I did some finish work. Adjusted the steering wheel position, tightened up the rear suspension installed with Bigten last winter, upgraded the lower control arm shackels and cracked the code on the idler and pitman arm. Shy of a a rag joint and alignment check, the entire suspension is done. (We won't discuss yesterdays debacle with leaking rear intake manifold gaskets, replaced, slipped and still leaking...a do over for sure). But the front is done. Here is the shackel upgrade and the idler/pitman arm installation.

These are the new 9/16" shackles from LMC for the lower control arms. The originals are 48 years old and 7/16" and known to break...its why Chevy upgraded to 1/2" and then finally to 9/16". Some drilling is in order to open up the holes for the stronger parts and at one spot, a dimple was needed in the cross tie to make clearance for a socket on the much larger nut.



The old and the new side by side.



I would have prefered to do this upgrade before the control arms were installed but is was the devil to find a 9/16" drill bit with a 3/8" rebated shank for my drill. So supporting the control arm against spring tension and only removing one shackel at a time for drilling, here is the drivers front shackel ready to be bolted down and torqued. The original small shackel hanging there for comparison....hard to believe a 4200 lb truck road on those shackels for 49 years.





Again, the drivers side rear, harder to get to but pull the shock and theres just enough room for wrenches and establishing a good even torque.



And here, the drivers side is done, upgraded to heavy duty shackels.



And about 20 minutes later, the passenger side looks just as spiffy. And, with 100 miles on the new suspension, I went ahead and hit every zirc fitting with another good dose of greese. Much easier to get the greese in this time, parts are starting to limber up and more accepting of a shot of greese than the first go around.

[Sharps40]

Cracking the code on idler arms and pitman arms. After much swearing and strikeing various parts of the drag link and idler/pitman arms with my 2.5 lb SmasherWacker and even trying the pickle forks again,....I figured it out. The suspension was sucking up the hits. So, I positioned the pickle fork in line (parallel) with the idler arm rather than perpendicular and three good smashwacks later.....(Thanks Bigten, your advice to keep a-poundin was spot on!)



The new and the old idler arm side by side. The LMC idler arm is slightly different where it mates to the frame but comes with spacers. Don't know what other applications this idler arm has but the new bolts are about 40eleven times too long. So, I reuse one original bolt and grab an extra from my spares kit. The extra is a grade 5 and I know I need a grade 8 but this'll get the idler on and I can make the trip to my hardware store for the right bolts tomorrow morning.



I thought I'd thread up the bolts provided, rather than go shopping....no go, my die ain't tough enuff for this job...so, off to Tractor Supply (my favoritest store) tomorrow.



Heres the idler arm in place now. Lovely - and I dont' have to pay to have it installed!



The pitman arm, many blows it took the other day and held on tight. But a pickle fork parallel to the arm and 5 HeMan blasts from the SmasherWacker and boing, its out of the draglink.



I borrowed two different sizes of pitman arm pullers, this is the smaller of the two and it fits perfect. A few turns and the pitman arm drops right off the steering box. I turned the steering full left before breaking off the pitman arm from the drag link, also strategically positioned a vice grip on the steering shaft to keep it from rollin around. I wanna clock the new pitman arm back on the same way (it has all the same size teeth in side so could go on any of 100 ways, I only need one, the right way).



The new and the old drag link.

[Sharps40]

New pitman arm goin in, note the vice grip, I rolled it up to turn hard left then back down slightly as I tapped up on the pitman arm to clock into the splined shaft of the steering box then draw it all in tight with the nuts.



And the pitman arm torqued and completed. (Tonights test ride was lovely, got a cigar to celebrate and no worries.)



I think Ol John Lee is well sprung for the next couple dozen years. He sure rides nice. A rag joint and alignment is pending but I don't have to worry about that. I took a buncha measurements again tonight and the toe in looks pretty close to perfect. The Caster/Camber, who can say, reused the original shim packs so it should be close but I'll have a pro look it over. But first, I gotta yank that darn intake again and fix that darn leak. This time though, I'm gonna cut the front and rear seals in half so I won't be tempted to use them....I'll just use RTV front and rear and prolly put some studs in the block to drop the intake over so it don't slide around and slip the seals again.

[Tx Firefighter]

Well done brother. Your thread sets the standard for how-to's on a tedious job. Ain't nothing easy or fun about suspension work.

It's standard procedure to throw the intake manifold rubber end gaskets away and use black silicone. When I worked in a GM dealership in 1994, I remember reading a service bulletin about that very subject. GM had so many warranty claims on intake leaks that they published a new procedure to use only a 1/4 thick bead of silicone on the ends. They recommend applying a nice round bead of silicone and letting it skin for 10 minutes then dropping the intake in place.

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by Sharps40

For this job, the following parts were used. The list is provided to assist your research should you also be contemplating a Front Suspension overhaul. The subject truck is a 1964, 1/2 ton base model Chevy C10, SBSS, 283 V8 with 3 speed muncie 318.

Advance Auto Parts:

Driveworks Tie Rod DW-ES323L: 2 each
Moog Ball Joint K6024: 2 each
Driveworks Ball Joint DW-K6023: 2 each
Driveworks Suspension Control Arm Shaft Kit DW-K6098: 2 each
Moog Coil Spring Set 6082: 1 each

LMC Truck:

Idler Arm 34-2112: 1 each (yet to be installed, see thread)
Pitman Arm 34-2210: 1 each (yet to be installed, see thread)
Tie Rod End Inner 34-1901: 2 each
Shaft Assembly Lower A Arm 34-1212: 2 each

Adding some notes here...You'll note that I got around to installing the pitman arm, the idler arm and upgraded the 7/16" original lower control arm shackels to 9/16" shackels from LMC.

1> The pitman arm from LMC was a direct fit. The zirc fitting rides very close to the underside of the frame. Don't know if it will cause trouble but I suspect if it does, it'll break right off and that'll be the end of it. Would be nice if someone made a pitman arm with a side mounted zirc fitting.

2> The idler arm from LMC is not an exact copy of the factory idler arm, in so far as the frame arm is straight rather than bent. It comes with a shim of the correct thickness and mounts up the same. In addition, the frame bolts included with the LMC idler arm are about 4" long which is about 2.5" more than needed. Plan to purchase brand new grade 8 bolts of the correct length if you install this pitman arm on a 1964 C10.

3> The 9/16 shackles are from LMC. They all needed closed up just a bit, just about 1/16" to 1/8" inch. Easy to do in a vice with the nuts on or in a pinch use the 2.5 lb SmasherWacker to tap em closed. You have to drill out the shackels and crossmember to 9/16" and I found a proper Dewalt drill bit with 3/8" shank at lowes. Slow speed works best and if you can, do the drilling and fitting BEFORE the coil springs are installed. These shackels and nuts are BIG. The fit is CLOSE. In order to torque with a socket and in one case to even install the nut, be prepared to dimple the cross member for clearance. 7 out of 8 went on fine with sockets and no dimpeling....one needed the dimple and I still had to use an open ended wrench to tighten it up and a crows foot on the torque wrench....not the best solution cause an open ended wrench/crows fit will slip over the nut when yer tryin to get to 100+ foot lbs of torque.

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

Well done brother. Your thread sets the standard for how-to's on a tedious job. Ain't nothing easy or fun about suspension work.

It's standard procedure to throw the intake manifold rubber end gaskets away and use black silicone. When I worked in a GM dealership in 1994, I remember reading a service bulletin about that very subject. GM had so many warranty claims on intake leaks that they published a new procedure to use only a 1/4 thick bead of silicone on the ends. They recommend applying a nice round bead of silicone and letting it skin for 10 minutes then dropping the intake in place.

Ya know, them rubbers were so pretty in that felpro box, I just hadda put em on and pulled the manifold and reqooped em and put em on again and thought I had it and wo-is-me I AINT USEN EM AGAIN! They Suck! Actually, they blow oil!

[Sharps40]

Got about 450 miles on this suspension overhaul now. Everything seems fine and the ride is great. I think I found a shop able to do an alignment check and adjustment. They have both the new style programable machines (and I have the specs in the 1964 Motor Truck manual) and the old style measuring bars if needed and the skills to use both.

At this point, I'd also call this job a success. It'll be interesting to get the alignment this month and determine how close reuseing shims and counting tie rod turns comes to being on the money. I'll report back when I know the answer.

A big THANKS to my friend for loan of the heavy duty 3/4" drive tools to yank and reinstall the front suspension and thanks to Orellies, Advance Auto and LMC for keeping loaner tools and parts in stock for a 49 year old truck!

[KVB]

Sharps40,

In the post 37, there is a pic with the caption "New & old drag link". I was wondering if this actually the drag link or the pitman arm. Is the drag link the bar that connects the left and right side of the steering.

In your part list you do not mention the draglink.

I am gonna order all the parts I can from rockauto.com and am compliling what I need.

Thanks

Ken

[Tx Firefighter]

Originally Posted by KVB

Sharps40,

In the post 37, there is a pic with the caption "New & old drag link". I was wondering if this actually the drag link or the pitman arm. Is the drag link the bar that connects the left and right side of the steering.

In your part list you do not mention the draglink.

I am gonna order all the parts I can from rockauto.com and am compliling what I need.

Thanks

Ken

You are correct. The pitman arm is the arm that bolts to the steering box on the driver's side of the truck. The idler arm is the part that bolts to the frame on the passenger side of the truck. The center (drag) link connects those two parts. The idler and pitman arm are both wear items and need to be replaced periodically. The center (drag) link is simply a large metal bar with four holes in it and is not a wear items and should never need replacing barring it being damaged in some way.

Since youre ordering from Rock Auto, if the old wallet will stand the strain, buy Moog brand stuff. It's the highest quality out there and will likely last longer than you will. Money well spent in this area, buying top of the line stuff as long as you can afford the up front cost.

[KVB]

Great.

Moog is what I am planning on buying. I want to do this once.

Thanks for the feedback.

Ken

[lolife99]

Thanks for taking all the time to Photo Document all your hard work!
Believe me,... I know how much of a distraction that can be.
I bet your camera was a greasy mess! ha.

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by KVB

Sharps40,

In the post 37, there is a pic with the caption "New & old drag link". I was wondering if this actually the drag link or the pitman arm. Is the drag link the bar that connects the left and right side of the steering.

In your part list you do not mention the draglink.

I am gonna order all the parts I can from rockauto.com and am compliling what I need.

Thanks

Ken

Its the pitman arm attached to the drag link....typo, sorry.

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by lolife99

Thanks for taking all the time to Photo Document all your hard work!
Believe me,... I know how much of a distraction that can be.
I bet your camera was a greasy mess! ha.

No worries...pics are easy...I have a beater camera for the job. I have to call the alignmet shop tomorrow and see if I can set a Friday appt. If I can get some feedback on how far off the alignment was after the rebuild, I'll post back up again.

[Sharps40]

Dropped it off at a new shop this AM. Newer shop, younger fellas and not a corporation. I was pleased to see em backing out a built Fox body Mustang rumblin 347 and 400 trans for the strip...I think they'll do fine for the alignment....even have the old school bars to do the job by hand if needed. But, Initial test drive by mechanic was followed up with, "Why ya want it aligned, it drives perfect!" We looked over the front tires with 8K miles and discussed a potential camber issue on the RF (outside of tire wearing off) and its on the rack gettin checked now. Should have it this evening, cocked, locked and ready to rock.

Incidentally, I asked for a rough estimate on rebuilding the original 283 (seein as how they build and race too, oughta be fine for an engine job too.) So, gettin some numbers worked up on a rebuild and If it looks right, might just ask about a TH350 or 700R4 install too. With luck, one shot in and out and I don't have to buy more GoJo. More to follow.

[KVB]

"Its the pitman arm attached to the drag link....typo, sorry. "

Sharps40,

Thats what I thought, just wanted to make sure. I order most of the parts, moog & raybestos from Autorock.com and the rest, bumpers & bolts from LMC.

Looking forward to christmas next week.

Thanks for the info.

Ken