Engine rebuild

[jon75]

Man oh man, did this turn into a pissing match! If you want an affordable engine that makes good power, research some crate engine options. A couple years back I spent the better part of a month of free time scanning the internet, physical catalogues, talking with machine shops, and even scanning Craigslist to find a good deal with good power. I found a 383 that made 420 hp for $2,300. I know it sounds stupid, but it was almost identical to the HP383 specs that GM has but just using different part manufacturers (namely companies like Scat, etc.). Most of the crate motors also come with a warranty, which is better than putting one together yourself (no warranty). The gentleman I installed the engine for is still driving that car hard each weekend. Best of luck with your search buddy.

[BigBlocksRule]

First, I wouldn't consider a stock rebuild as long as he's buying a crank, no reason not to stroke it. So we're in agreement on that. As I've said, I have no problem with a Scat cast stroker crank. Their rods are fine, too. Read my post again, I said they're fine. All Chinese stuff ain't the same - ProComp ain't Scat. Scat has proven itself over the years and is the go-to budget crank and rods for my builds, small and big block.
Speed Pro coated pistons. I'd probably go with some Vortec heads, buy a good used set from your machine shop and have 'em machined for higher lift and clean up the ports. No need for pins or screw-in studs, they won't move. I'm not arguing that aluminum heads will let you run more compression than iron. What I will argue is the notion that they make more power. Engines make power through heat, aluminum dissipates it faster than iron. I've seen many back-to-back tests that says they'll make the same power. There are two good reasons to step up to aluminum. First is obviously weight. Second is repairability. If I drop a valve in my Brodix head, I can have it welded back up and reshaped to make it good as new. I wonder how those Chinese castings are when it comes to welding on 'em? That ain't high quality aluminum they're made of. Many sets of 'em I've personally seen have spots where it looks like somebody touched up exposed porous spots with JB Chemweld. If they're that porous on top, they're Swiss cheese inside.
Harland Sharp are good rockers but not needed at this point, optional. Intake would be a dual plane with a 650 or 750 carb, your choice of mechanical or vacuum secondaries. I didn't know we were doing converters or gears, don't know enough about what he wants to do with it.

You're throwing Chad's name and recommendations around like he's here to defend his choices. I can promise you, he doesn't care for that - no engine builder wants anyone putting words in his mouth or making recommendations based on something he recommended for someone else. He'll be the head guy on the 507 I'm building with a custom Chris Straub cam.
Again, fix your links. You said Chad uses Profilers. He uses another offshore casting, too, but they ain't ProComp. The heads you linked aren't ProFilers, either, they're "nearly identical to ProComp". More off-brand Chinese castings. At less than $150 to your door, my $ says that's a ProComp crank. A Scat cast stroker is $200+ shipped.
Heads and cranks aren't cheap when you have to spend a lot of money just to make 'em workable. I sent every other crank back to Eagle when I first started, none of their journals were round, many were tapered. No problem with Scat, but ProComp is worse than Eagle. That $148 crank just turned into $275 after you pay your machine shop to turn and true it.
Reher Morrison is a good engine building company, no doubt. I base part of my experience on spending a lot of time in a machine shop that's sold more big-inch engines and won more races and championships across the nation for the past several years than Reher Morrison. And the guy that I get cylinder head advise from actually designed half of the big block heads now made by Brodix.
Haul those junk offshore castings into Reher-Morrison and see what they have to say about them.
I have a 404 ready to assemble in the shop. Parts list:
Block: "509" casting, decked to put the pistons .005 in the hole, torque plate honed. Mains checked, no need for align hone, it's fine.
Scat cast crank, Scat 3/8" capscrew bushed 5.7" rods
SRP reverse dome forged pistons, 9.7:1 compression
Bowtie Vortec heads, 225cc runners, cleaned up with a bowl blend
Edelbrock single plane intake, Holley 750DP
Cam is hydraulic roller, 23X/23X, .575 lift both sides.

I've been building engines for several years, have 3 on stands in my shop right now.
How about you, Lynn Jr.? Are you an engine builder or just someone who repeats what he's heard or read on the internet?

OP: Regardless of what parts you want, there is one point that hasn't been stressed here: there's absolutely no substitute for spot-on machine work. My blocks are bored on a Rottler CNC machine, honed on a Sunnen CNC hone. Seat and valve work on a Serdi. All done by people who understand engines and how much their work means to a powerful engine that will live a long life, whether in a daily driver on the road or a fire breathing 1000+hp race engine. They're all built with the same attention to detail. Find a good machine shop with good tools and the knowledge and experience it takes to build stuff right. If the floor isn't clean enough to eat off of, find another shop. Details are what separate good builders from bad.

[LynnJr]

OP: Regardless of what parts you want, there is one point that hasn't been stressed here: there's absolutely no substitute for spot-on machine work. My blocks are bored on a Rottler CNC machine, honed on a Sunnen CNC hone. Seat and valve work on a Serdi. All done by people who understand engines and how much their work means to a powerful engine that will live a long life, whether in a daily driver on the road or a fire breathing 1000+hp race engine. They're all built with the same attention to detail. Find a good machine shop with good tools and the knowledge and experience it takes to build stuff right. If the floor isn't clean enough to eat off of, find another shop. Details are what separate good builders from bad.

Bigblocksrule
Well after reading your post it looks like you didn't read mine but no surprise there.
Look at the top to see what I highlighted from your post and you will see what I am talking about.I did stress that the guy selling the heads was a COMPETENT AND WELL EQUIPPED MACHINE SHOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also I will point out I recommended the new crank so he didn't have to waste money on his factory crank and gain some stroke at the same time.
Nice how you are now recommending what I already have.

On the heads I never said he would gain power because they were aluminum and you won't find that statement in any of my posts.I am guessing you ASSUMED that is what I meant without taking the time to ask.
He will gain horsepower because the aluminum heads flow more air than the factory 350 heads and a engine is a air pump.

As I look through your post I see you recommending everything I already have but because you saw "Jr" behind my name you assumed I was some punk kid one sees posting on all these types of forums.Funny how when asked what YOU would build your recommendations and mine are very similar.
Again I am not surprised.

As to throwing around Chad's or Reher's name and upsetting them you are kidding right??????????????? No you have to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!

They were used to prove my point that chinese parts are not all junk like was previously posted by someone you didn't want to or chose not to argue with.I guess he didn't have "JR" behind his name? If Chad and Reher are using the parts and YES THEY ARE DESPITE WHAT i HAVE READ HERE they are good parts.
Again no surprise you didn't read what I wrote.

As to my credentials now that right there is funny.Do we come here unzip and get out the tape measures to find out who is the advice King or do I need a National Championship before I can post? How many engines do I need on stands in my shop before my advice is considered good?If I put 4 engines on stands does that mean I know something? I ask because good shops and bad shops always seem to have engines on stands.
If you had taken the time to look for previous posts before pounding on your chest you could have answered your own question.I posted a picture of my latest build.

To the original poster.
I am sorry I made any recommendations at all.Your post only received one recommendation before I posted mine and the firestorm erupted.Notice how the chest pounders engine and my original recommendations are now exactly alike.I didn't come here to disrupt the good ole boys club just to answer your questions but I can tell I stepped on a hornets nest by posting here.The "JR" behind my name has been there for way way too many years for me to waste my time on the kiddies forum but I sincerely wish you well on your engine.

[BigBlocksRule]

Wow, sure sounds like you have a JR chip on your shoulder - where did I mention that?

Call Chad, tell him you're making recommendations based on his advice to you and you're dropping his name in forums. You might as well find out how builders feel about that first hand.

Most of your recommendations are based on someone else's experience and recommendations.

Mine are based on personal experience.

I'll ask again, fix your link, I really want to see that Scat cast stroker crank to your door for $148. I'll buy a pallet of 'em.

And OP: Mine and Jr's recommendations are NOT exactly alike - I would NEVER recommend off-brand, Chinese knock-off counterfeit heads to anybody. I'd sure not link to something misadvertised as being a "Bowtie" head or a CAT or ProComp crankshaft.

[LynnJr]

Originally Posted by BigBlocksRule

Wow, sure sounds like you have a JR chip on your shoulder - where did I mention that?

Call Chad, tell him you're making recommendations based on his advice to you and you're dropping his name in forums. You might as well find out how builders feel about that first hand.

You are once again not reading my post but again no surprise there.I am NOT making any recommendations based on my advice from Chad.if you can find that cut copy and paste it here.I gave a recommendation on heads done by a friend in Bakersfield,California.
I SHOWED WHAT CHAD POSTED to point out he uses offshore heads period.Nothing more nothing less.
I can't help you if you can't follow that train of thought and believe me you can't.

Most of your recommendations are based on someone else's experience and recommendations.
Here we go again.You are simply not capable of reading my posts.
My recommendation was for a set of heads I personally own and know rthe shop owner as well.
Can someone who knows this poster point it out to this guy that Chad was merely mentioned to point out about the use of offshore heads.He doesn't get it.

Mine are based on personal experience.
As are mine and those heads are perfectly fine and doing well on the street and local tracks.

I'll ask again, fix your link, I really want to see that Scat cast stroker crank to your door for $148. I'll buy a pallet of 'em.
I have already wasted too much of my time just trying to get you to read the posts.

And OP: Mine and Jr's recommendations are NOT exactly alike - I would NEVER recommend off-brand, Chinese knock-off counterfeit heads to anybody. I'd sure not link to something misadvertised as being a "Bowtie" head or a CAT or ProComp crankshaft.

Original poster the offshore knock-off heads used by Chad work very well.Notice that the chest pounder is using offshore knock off scat rods and knock off offshore scat cranks in his builds.
Here is Chads post and yes I know bigblocksrule will take issue with me posting it.

Chad Speier
Senior Member
Smoked another BBC

Chad Speier's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hays, Kansas
Posts: 3,698

Default Re: Chad Speier has balls
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1986iroc View Post
So with a 383 what would be a good head if you want to grow later like 421ci?

The 195cc Pro-Filer is what I recommend when people ask me that very question. Ultra thick and only downfall is 63cc is about all your going to get flat milled.
__________________
VFactor
SRH Speier Racing Heads
785.623.0963

Look through all of my posts and see if I recommended YOU to use 195 Profilers or the heads from Bakersfield,California.
Honestly you just can't make this stuff up.

[Want2Run]

[QUOTE=wraprail;6071138]What motor are you starting with? 350? 305?
What year is it? 2 piece rear main? 1 piece?
What heads are you currently running?
72cc-64cc chambers don't equal "about 11.5-1 compression"
What is your budget?



I am saying rough estimate of about 11. not equal exact. it my be little less or a little more but should be around that area, and I am starting with a stock vette 350 (stock as far as I know, other then a large cam) Year is questionable doing more research because the heads seem to be newer then the block from what I can see, like I said its a work in progress its hard to pull a motor out when you can only use a friends garage at this time, but they should be stock heads according to the guy I bought it from.. but that hasn't show reliability yet, so with further research I will let you know. I planned to have concrete already ,but weather has thrown a wrench in my plans. and budget a few grand.

[Want2Run]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

10:1 compression is pushing the pump gas package without additives. And that's if your on top of your timing and timing curve
The factory aluminum intake has to go. The quadrajet has to go and your heads have to go. Why do you want it .40 overbore? I try and strive for as close to stock bore as possible.

Here's two nice combos. 2.02 fuelie heads and flat top pistons like speed pro hyperutectic and either some good condition stock rods it upgraded with new bolts (not a bad idea) or gm powders metal lt1/lt4 rods with new bolts(500hp6.5krpm)capable and a balance job on the crank. A comp cams 262xe cam or 268 voodoo for more rumble and power. A performer rpm intake with a Holley vac secondary on top. Use a nice clots roller chain and some hardened pushrods connecting to some nice roller rockers and don't get race car roller rockers they just cause you to spend more money and won't give you any return for it. Personally I would just go for comp cam magnum roller tip. And use a stock oil pump with a high pressure spring if you need to. This should net you close to 350-400hp.


Engine two. Here you have a different top end. Get a vortec intake and a Holley 750dbl pumper get some vortec heads and I would suggest having them blended but you don't need too. Have the same pistons and spec 10:1 compression since these are efficient burning heads. Use powdered metal lt1/lt4 rods with upgraded hardware and spec a voodo 268 cam with some good rockers. A cloyes timing Chain and a stock pump again. The vortec top end should net you 45hp at least guaranteed over the other engine I spec'd. I would say this should easily top 400hp. And if you parts match correct should come towards the 450hp side

Those are two combos that if your trans or rear diff aren't good that they will brake sometime under abuse
Posted via Mobile Device

I see what you are saying, I take it you are a Holley man? lol I just took a Holley off because I absolutely hate them, they are good ,but too finicky so I slapped a quadrajet on there until I looked more into carbs, considered a quikfuel they seem to have great reviews but don't know myself how they are. If I have to get a Cam I will go with a comp cam roller, but trying to stay within a smaller budget after I pay for all this concrete now.. but appreciate the setups ill look more into your set ups you got listed for me.

[Want2Run]

Originally Posted by jon75

Man oh man, did this turn into a pissing match! If you want an affordable engine that makes good power, research some crate engine options. A couple years back I spent the better part of a month of free time scanning the internet, physical catalogues, talking with machine shops, and even scanning Craigslist to find a good deal with good power. I found a 383 that made 420 hp for $2,300. I know it sounds stupid, but it was almost identical to the HP383 specs that GM has but just using different part manufacturers (namely companies like Scat, etc.). Most of the crate motors also come with a warranty, which is better than putting one together yourself (no warranty). The gentleman I installed the engine for is still driving that car hard each weekend. Best of luck with your search buddy.

I've put some real thought into going crate also, the price is really good for the power...