Truck has good battery but can't get it to turn over?

[imjeff]

Replace the battery cables with big ones and get your battery load tested. Until you get these two things done it is pointless to troubleshoot anything further in the system. Your lights are not on your switched ignition so you're barking up the wrong tree.

[White70C20]

I understand what you're saying, but I thought maybe the lighting was a side issue that needs to be addressed at the same time. If I'm doing electrical work, I want to do it all, one right after the other.

I might add that the turn signals would also quit whenever I turned the key to the start position. That does have to do with the starting system. I don't know what it means when the turn signals quit when either the key switch is turned to start or when the headlights are turned on.
I think the wiring is almost completely shot in this poor old truck.

I'm also curious as to what input you guys have on the HEI coil. It sounds legit to me. My father was also wondering about the distributor cap itself as well. I know the distributor cap alone wont cause the problems I'm describing, but it could be making matters worse.

[imjeff]

If you won't start at the beginning I can't help you. Headlights are not on the ignition, turn signals are. Distributors do not prevent starters from working. Electrical parts aren't "fine" unless they are verified, new or not. I appreciate that you reached out for help, but I think you'll find the offers will slow as you refuse and refute the advice. Those hoof beats you hear are horses, not the zebras you are looking for. Good luck. You've received a lot of good tips so I guess the ball is in your court. There are a lot of great minds on this forum with a combined thousands of years of experience. You may want to take some of their advice, answer their questions and show them you appreciate their knowledge. I only wish I would have had access to this expertise 40 years ago when I started wrenching on old trucks.

[White70C20]

I have taken their advise. I had the alternator checked back in January when the truck first started giving me problems. I checked and cleaned all the grounds that I could find (it's not my fault the ground straps going from the firewall to the engine haven't been hooked up in who knows how long). I've checked every fuse and connection I could find that had anything to do with the starting system. I replaced the voltage regulator as suggested (since the old one couldn't be tested).
I find it very hard to believe that a 4 month old battery would be bad, but I can take it to the place I got it and have it tested if that's what you guys want me to do, same way with the alternator.

Yes, I ran a new wire from the solenoid to the key switch (which I replaced as well), but that in turn actually helped part of the problem.

As for the HEI coil, I was just shooting that out there as a possibility. I don't know much about HEI.

All I know is that I have followed almost all of everyone's advice. So don't tell me I'm acting as if I don't appreciate the suggestions.

All I want is to fix my pickup in the most efficient way possible. I just want to know that I can climb in the truck and know that it will start up whenever I need it to.

[bigmac73]

if the ignition is causing the lights to stop working , sounds to em like a ground or a short, i am guessing you have already thought of that , just have to start chasing wires

[imjeff]

Originally Posted by White70C20

I have taken their advise. All I know is that I have followed almost all of everyone's advice. So don't tell me I'm acting as if I don't appreciate the suggestions.

Interesting perception. Several posters suggested load testing your battery. This is because batteries are sometimes bad when new (I believe someone pointed that out as well). They are sometimes old when you buy them. Some owners run them down repeatedly or leave them dead for periods of time, more reasons for failure. Without a good battery it is pointless to continue trouble shooting. It's akin to adjusting your carb with no fuel in the truck. Your response to this most basic of electrical trouble shooting? You don't don't see how a four month old battery could be bad. Advice taken?

Several suggested replacing your battery cables. Battery cables commonly corrode inside the jacket resulting in an inability to carry sufficient current. When this conduit for all power to the rest of your truck can't carry sufficient load, you get intermittent problems such as loss of power once it is overloaded. You might see this as one load working until another load is added at which time you lose all of it. Since your headlights aren't an ignition sourced item and you have a failure in them simultaneously with your other ignition loads it's not a big stretch to assume your electrical problem is upstream of your ignition. We often check headlights to diagnose whether the cables and battery are relatively ok when trouble shooting. I didn't see where you took this advice either.

Without a sound base, you cannot "fix" your problem. The fact that when you "fix" a problem that isn't the problem.....you didn't fix it. Your truck running once doesn't mean you fixed anything, it means you have an intermittent problem. In your case it also resulted in a bypassed neutral safety switch (your idea even though you were advised against it) and added to the very "rats nest" you complained about earlier.

I won't continue line by line with all the good advice you've not taken because it's all here and really makes no difference in the end. I only post this to try to offer advice to others who come upon this thread. I really didn't mean to offend you, but saying you've taken their advice is a bit of a stretch. I don't get too worked up about these things because I was young and went through my own "I don't see how that can be" phase as did my own boys. Now I just go out to one of my old cars/truck with their fat battery cables and turn the key in its 40 plus year old ignition switch and listen to that big block run. Whether you choose to take the advice of the good folks on this board, or not, is totally your decision. My truck still starts and gets me to work every day. I hope you someday enjoy the same!

[68C15]

take the sound advice given to you, test the battery.
your opening post made me instantly think "dead battery"
a shorted battery will show decent voltage until you put a load on it. The more load it is given, the lower the available voltage/current. Think of it like this. You wake up in the morning after a good night's sleep and lay in bed feeling great (fresh charge in battery). Then you try to stand up but as soon as you do, you fall on the floor because your left foot is broken (internally shorted battery). The foot didn't bother you while in bed (battery being tested with voltmeter alone) until you went to stand on it (try to start engine, turn on lights, etc).
there are 3 basic things that all electrical diagnostics involve and should be understood.
volts
amps
resistance

I would like to know what the battery voltage is while cranking or attempting to crank the engine. You need at least 10.5V

I would also like to see you get the alternator tested. Even if you had it tested in January do it again. "that light in the kitchen worked yesterday, it should be good today. Maybe I need to rewire the whole house"

I sincerely apologize for the sarcasm, but I feel it needs to be there to get the point across.

[tcoop68]

Also check neutral safety switch

[BADAZ chevy guy]

Originally Posted by tcoop68

Also check neutral safety switch

AHHH. Good idea.

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by White70C20

The battery read 11.7 V

I'm thinking along the same lines as 68C15 and others who've said dead battery.

As shown at http://carbatteryonline.net/car-battery-tester.html
12.65V = 100% (fully charged)
12.45V = 75%
12.24V = 50%
12.06V = 25%
11.89V = 0% (dead car battery)

[litew8]

Either the battery isn't accepting a charge (bad battery) or isn't recieving a charge (alternator).

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by White70C20

Thanks for the input guys.

Ok, I went ahead and put in a new wire from the solenoid to the brand new key switch. I also ran a new wire from the solenoid to the HEI coil on the distributor.
Why did you do this.

It started up and ran ok for a while. When I came back later to drive it around it did its same stuff again. Nothing would happen when I turned the key.

Today, I tried twice to start it. I would jumpstart it off my car and then check and see if the lights/turnsignals worked. They would at first, but after 10-15 sec. they would go out. Then within a minute the engine would stall.

Your charging system is not working. If it was, the lights would keep working even with a low battery.

This evening I went out and cleaned up all the ground connections (the ground cable and block-to-frame cable). I looked and saw that neither of the ground straps that go from the firewall to the cylinder heads had been connected for years, so obviously it had been running fine without them.

I got good contact at the grounds. The battery read 11.7 V (I know that's not enough to start the engine, but at least it should attempt to crank over). Nothing! Not even a click or growl from the starter.

Put a charger on the battery for an hour or two until it reads 12.3 volts. Then see if it will start and run and the lights and turns will work. If they do then you know the charging system is not working. While the engine is running, check the large wire on the alternator with your voltmeter for 14.5 volts. If you get less than 13 then the alternator or regulator is bad.

One thing I found unique was that if I turned on the turn signals they worked fine, but if I also turned on the headlights, the turn signals would quit. After messing around with different variations of this for a few minutes the turn signals decided to quit altogether. At this point it was getting dark so I called it a night. This issue has me baffled.

However, another friend of mine had the idea that maybe the HEI coil on the distributor could be bad. Does this seem logical? I don't know.

NO the coil would only affect the engine ignition.

[litew8]

idk if all the strange things happening with your lights/signals and whatnot is related to dead battery, or if you have a separate issue going on there. How long have you owned it and when did it start acting up? Sounds like you've tested your alternator (did you take it in or?). Maybe you should get a second opinion and have it tested somewhere else. You keep saying how you need to charge the battery... Like I mentioned above, either bad battery not receiving a charge (cells can go bad unexpectedly?) or alternator not providing one (charge, due to being defective or miswired). Murphy's Law - all of the above Switch out the alternator just for fun and see what happens. Make sure it's wired up right. Borrow somebody else battery too. You're in a college auto shop and the head mechanic is referred to as Professor?

[68C15]

good catch Vettevet. Why do you have the wire from solenoid to the coil with HEI? When converting to HEI you need to replace the resistor wire at bulkhead with a regular 14g wire.

the lights go out first because they will work at a lower voltage than the ignition. Ignition needs at least 9.6V to operate.

it sounds like the OP needs to get an education in electronics.

[litew8]

he had issues before rewiring

[67 cst swb]

Originally Posted by White70C20

...I also noticed that it was misfiring. When at a stop I noticed I had no lights either. then it died. When I tried to restart it nothing happened, no click, nothing except the tachometer needle would bounce when I turned the key back to OFF.

Sounds to me like a bad alternator. If the alternator is not charging, then your draining your battery whenever you drive. As your vehicle sits the battery slowly regains its charge. Repeating of this cycle, draining battery, then jump starting, draining battery, etc... will kill even a brand new battery.

But, now that I read all the replies.
It sounds like you have:
had the Alternator tested,
replaced the Voltage Regulator,
replaced Ignition Switch
made sure the Ground Wires were connected
Had the Battery rechecked... not load tested, but had each cell of the battery checked by a reputable electrical shop
among other things.

So, Provided all the above things are done and verified. Its time to take it in to a reputable electrical shop for diagnoses or start buying new wiring harnesses and getting busy.

[White70C20]

Hello all,

In answer to VetteVet, I installed a new wire from the solenoid to the HEI coil just as a precautionary thing. I just wanted to rule as many things out as I could.

Over the couple days I've done the following:
Took the battery in to have it tested. Turns out it was bad (or just really dead). It was still under warranty so they gave me a new one.
I took the alternator in to have it tested. It is still good, but it is making some strange noises.
I cleaned up all the grounds I could find and replaced all three cables (positive battery cable, negative battery cable, and engine to frame ground cable) with brand new, quality cables.
I inspected all the wires that have been messed with over the last few days making sure all the connections were still good and tight.

This evening I hooked up the battery, turned the key and...... nothing. Not a darn thing! I turned on all the lights and none of them came on either. I am still confused as to what could be happening.

I took a couple of electricity courses a few years ago in community college. I'm not completely stupid when it comes to diagnosing electrical problems. I just haven't ever seen a problem like this before.

I have tried to address most (if not all) your questions and suggestions. I am very appreciative of the help I am receiving. Thank you all very much!

[White70C20]

Originally Posted by 67 cst swb

Provided all the above things are done and verified. Its time to take it in to a reputable electrical shop for diagnoses or start buying new wiring harnesses and getting busy.

I can't even get it started long enough to get it onto a dolly let alone drive it to a repair shop. My uncle works at a Chevy dealership not too far away and I know I would get a fair deal there, but the problem is getting it there.

Also, I read one of the replies a little while ago talking about the park/neutral switch. I had thought of this, but I was wondering if I bypassed it when I ran the new wire from the solenoid to the key switch. Could the fact that it's not getting an electrical signal be the problem? If not, is it possible that it's bad and that alone be why it won't start?

Seems unlikely, seeing as how none of the lights work either.

[VetteVet]

The reason I asked you why you ran that wire from the solenoid to the HEI is because ther is no wire running from the solenoid to the HEI. The only wires to the solenoid are the purple wire from the key switch and the positive battery cable. That"s it On the 73 and up models the factory ran the alternator feed wires and the cab power wires to the starter.

Do you have a small wire from the battery positive post to the terminal on the right passenger fender. That is the wire that feeds all of the trucks accessories when the engine isn't running. It contains a fusible link which is a form of slow blow fuse for circuit protection. If it is blown or you don't have this wire you won't have any power to the cab or the fuse panel.

Here is a picture with the HEI distributor.



Notice right at the top is the fusible link with the positive battery cable.
Down and to the right is the starter with the purple wire and the large battery cable attached.

Was your battery dead? If you have a key off drain then you will have to find it before you can proceed.

I have made some modifications to this drawing showing how to wire in a CS alternator and the HEI distributor was already there with the red feed wire to it.

[White70C20]

Thanks VetteVet,

I was mistaken. I thought the wire I put in was going to the HEI, but I guess it wasn't. What I did was cut off the wire that had been there and run a new wire with a better connection to the solenoid and connect the new wire to the old wire. I made sure I made a good connection when I did it though.

When I look at that picture you posted I can see several of the same things on my truck.

I don't have a small wire running from the positive terminal to a junction block, but I do have two small wires running from the negative terminal. One runs to a junction block mounted on the pass. side fender. It has 4-5 wires connected to it. The other small wire runs to another little smaller junction block mounted on the wheel well (PO installed) that I have no idea where it goes to.

If anyone has any more ideas/suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. I need this truck to run. It's not doing me any good just sitting in the college parking lot.

[71swb4x4]

The junction block on the fender is a power supply, that should be fed from the positive side of your battery not negative. If you want to be 100% sure post a photo of your junction block on this thread and we will confirm.

[litew8]

No doubt. The OP needs to give more history. Has it always been f'ed up since acquired or not. Was it acquired and then shortly after it started acting up? If it's due to the wiring being screwed up from the get go due to the PO, none of the above would be for cause as much as it would be for effect.

[White70C20]

Hello all,

In answer to a couple of questions:

litew8, yet the wiring has been screwed up ever since I bought it. I've owned this truck since October of 2012. It never really gave me any problems until last December. I remedied that (I thought) with a new battery. Since then it has had little problems, a draw on the battery (fixed by removing the radio), intermittent starting issues (had several little tricks that seemed to work for a while), and now a complete power failure.

Here are the things I have replaced:
Starter solenoid
Ignition switch
Battery
+ and - battery cables
Ground cable
ignition fuse

Here are the things I have checked and found good:
Alternator

I have cleaned and re-checked every ground I could find.

71swb4x4, Here is the pictures of the junction block that's mounted on the pass. side fender and the little one that's mounted on the wheel well.
One of the red wires from this junction block is hooked to the negative battery cable


The red wire from this is also attached to the negative battery cable.

Is there anything else I could do besides going through and checking every single wire? If that's my only option at this point I just might go get a new wiring harness.

[BlacklandCamper]

That second photo looks less like a junction, and more like a circuit breaker, and those can go bad.

The issues you describe from earlier, to me, scream SHORT. As much as it sucks, you are going to have to chase wires, and find corroded spots. If you had to remove the radio to correct an electrical issue, then there is more wrong. Removing a piece, is never a correct fix. If the battery has gone from good to drained in the space of a few months, then you have an issue with wires grounding, or hots staying hot and keeping a load on the battery.

Everything so far points to spots of bad wire.

[White70C20]

That's what I was afraid of.

Blackland Camper, I removed the battery because one of the previous owners thought it would be a good idea to hardwire it straight to the battery. It would turn on even when the key was out of the ignition. Even when it was turned off, there was still a drain on the battery.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to chase wires. For as simple as these trucks are, there are a LOT of wires! I really hope it doesn't take too long to find the bad wire/wires.

Any suggestions on where to start looking?
Thanks!