Urgent, need opinions on my new crate engine

[JointTech]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

No. Road weight is shipping weight plus fuel, water, and oil. So if your truck is a 3/4T fleetside with a V-8 road weight is 4090# without passengers.

LockDoc

k so a couple fat chicks

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Putting new heads on an old short block being a bad idea is an old wife's tale. The bottom end will not degrade just because of good heads. How many miles did you say were on your bottom end? Anything less that 100,000 miles, provided I had no reason to believe anything was wrong, I'd put a new cam, heads, timing chain/gears on it and not worry.

Get some small chamber heads, the cam I recommended and you and your buddies put them and all the other new parts you ordered on your old engine a set of headers, new dual exhaust if you need it and have fun. I'd recommend the 65cc heads for 399.00$ and felpro 1094 head gaskets and a cheap set of new head bolts. You will spend half as much and go twice as fast.

http://www.aeroheadracing.com/chevy.html

ANOTHER OPTION would be to sell the heads off the 290HP and put the 65cc heads on it. THAT would get you LOTS of power and about 9.5:1 compression with steel shim head gaskets. THEN your 290HP cam will work, and work well.

Or Vortec heads.

[djgebert]

I am not sure where people get these massive weight numbers for some of their trucks that I frequently hear, they must have some crazy heavy stuff mounted on them. These trucks are not that big. I have a 2003 Silverado and a 2014 Silverado and they weigh mountains more than my 71'. I had a 1971 Chevelle SS sitting side by side in the garage with my 71' shortbed for several years and the truck was several inches shorter than the car. (They are longer than a Camaro and shorter than a Chevelle). I weighed my truck at a local scale when I was having a stall converter made and it came in at 3312 lbs with a 350/350 turbo without me in the truck. I have no idea what the full size trucks weigh, but I checked mine so I am positive about it. 290 HP should be more than enough for you as a daily driver/cruiser and should have plenty of power for towing and hauling normal loads(if your truck is not retired). Now if you are looking to smoke the tires at 20 mph you probably better keep on shopping. (Oh and just to clarify my truck had a fiberglass rear roll pan and aluminum rims when weighed so I imagine those items alone shaved off at least 100 lbs)

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

Or Vortec heads.

Oh, yes, much preferred but I think he already got a nice Gen I intake.

Of course, he could send it back and get the right one!

[67ChevyRedneck]

Per a 1977 issue of N.A.D.A Used Car Guide:-

1972 Ship Weight

C10 - Pickup Stepside 6/12' ..........................3560
" " FleetSide 6 1/2' ........................3630
" " Stepside 8' ..............................3640
" " Fleetside 8' ............................. 3720
C20 - " " Stepside 8' ..............................3940
" " Fleetside 8' ..............................4030
" " Longhorn 8 1/2' .........................3950

The ship weight
is defined as the shipping weight less fuel, coolant and lubricants.
weights per gallon ( lbs per gallon) fuel - 6; oil - 7; water 8.
There appears to be an error as to the Longhorn weight; should be heavier than shown...

That's because straight from GM the lightest truck "shipped" was a shortbed stepside at 3,560 lbs. That's with no fuel, coolant, or lubricants. Those numbers were also for base model, 6 cyl, 3spd, no rear bumper, no spare trucks. You starting adding a V8, auto, rear bumper, a/c, etc and the weight creeps up. My 67 stepside rolled across the scales years ago around 3,900 lbs after subtracting my weight. That's with a V8, 700R, A/C, PDB...

[Lee H]

Just for reference, My 72 C10, short fleet, 350/350, PS, PB, AC, spare, half tank of gas came in at 3,710 on a fresh fame off restoration. My 65 Corvette roadster came in at 3,146. Couple of fat chicks difference.

[djgebert]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

That's because straight from GM the lightest truck "shipped" was a shortbed stepside at 3,560 lbs. That's with no fuel, coolant, or lubricants. Those numbers were also for base model, 6 cyl, 3spd, no rear bumper, no spare trucks. You starting adding a V8, auto, rear bumper, a/c, etc and the weight creeps up. My 67 stepside rolled across the scales years ago around 3,900 lbs after subtracting my weight. That's with a V8, 700R, A/C, PDB...

You know I am sitting here looking at those weights and what my truck weighed in at and it had me confused why mine would be so much lighter. But when I started to think about it more it all makes sense. When I weighed my truck it had no PS, no PB, no AC, Aluminum heads and intake, headers, aluminum driveshaft, aluminum radiator, no heater core, fiberglass roll pan instead of bumper, aluminum wheels and no spare. If you start adding up all of the weight those items removed I guess it makes sense. One thing for sure I think the vast majority of these trucks weigh well under 4000 lbs even when loaded with factory steel and cast parts.

[EvanSchraub]

Originally Posted by djgebert

You know I am sitting here looking at those weights and what my truck weighed in at and it had me confused why mine would be so much lighter. But when I started to think about it more it all makes sense. When I weighed my truck it had no PS, no PB, no AC, Aluminum heads and intake, headers, aluminum driveshaft, aluminum radiator, no heater core, fiberglass roll pan instead of bumper, aluminum wheels and no spare. If you start adding up all of the weight those items removed I guess it makes sense. One thing for sure I think the vast majority of these trucks weigh well under 4000 lbs even when loaded with factory steel and cast parts.

I recently put a new ac in mine and was Surat how much there was too it as far as the brackets stuff it reall surprised me that it would weigh as much as it did

[Lattimer]

My shortbed fleetside weighed 3940 on the truck scale at work. Scale has a 20 lb resolution and gets calibrated every 6 months.

Thats PS, PB, aftermarket AC, iron head Vortec 350, Tremec TKO 600, steel bumpers, 3/4 tank of gas, 80's factory rallyes, spare in the bed, and a tool kit in the cab...LOL.

[Lattimer]

Oh, and for comparison my 2012 Tundra Crewmax 4x4 weighed 6400 on the same scale.

Big difference there, but the Tundra is a lot bigger truck and 4x4.

[ka_jd7and1]

I had the 290hp crate in my '68 longbed with 3 speed manual trans, 3.73 rear gears and a 29" tall tire. Truck ran fine, kept up with highway traffic and had enough power to do what I needed it to.

The only reason I took it out is I was hard up for money and sold it.

I would say, if you're willing to put it in as-is, then keep it.

If you would plan on putting new heads, cam, etc, I would do one of two things. Send it back and order the right complete engine for you the first time, without having to do more work to it, or order a short block and pick the rest of the components you want.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

My shortbed fleetside weighed 3940 on the truck scale at work. Scale has a 20 lb resolution and gets calibrated every 6 months.

Thats PS, PB, aftermarket AC, iron head Vortec 350, Tremec TKO 600, steel bumpers, 3/4 tank of gas, 80's factory rallyes, spare in the bed, and a tool kit in the cab...LOL.

That sounds about right.
I've had 2 long bed 1/2 tons that I paid a lot of attention to from a weight/GVW standpoint and I did the same 'weight check' thing over at the commercial scales quite a few times.
One was a leaf spring/Heavy half and the other was a trailing arm regular 1/2 ton (my current blue one in the avatar pic).
The 'H.Duty' leaf spring truck was slightly lighter than the trailing arm truck...which makes sense...less steel there for sure with those trailing arms.
That said both of these 1/2 ton/long bed trucks were very at or slightly above the 4000lb mark....without me in them.
Both of these trucks had the following options: V-8/SBC, ps, pb, auto, a-c, tilt, dual exhaust, deluxe trim and rear bumpers.
Once you add in even the basic options it starts to pile up the weight...eg: V-8, ps, pb, auto, bumper, radio, deluxe trim/gauges, auxiliary gas tank, dual exhaust.....they all chunk it on and it easily turns into several hundred pounds.
That said, its always good to know exactly what your own truck weighs, that way if you decide to carry or pull a load you know what you are up against.
I remember being kind of 'bummed out' that legally my truck couldn't actually take too much load before its GVW rating was exceeded (5000lbs and 5400lbs) until I realized this was due more to the poor tire quality of the era being the weak link in that era's rating system rather than the truck itself.
....anywhooo, a little off topic from the original threads Crate Engine theme but thought I'd throw the info out there anyways.
all Good
Coley

[MAC71]

I put both of my trucks on a scale. The 71 C10 long bed was 4400 lbs and the C20 Suburban was 6800 lbs.

[1972BlueC20]

UPDATE :


ok guys thanks so much for all your help and input!

So it turns out that when I ordered this engine (the 290HP with chrome package # 19244450) I made sure multiple times with the summit racing people on the online chat as to whether the engine came with the intake manifold installed and the valve covers and timing chain cover installed. They said YES!!!

Well I went over today to my mechanics shop to look at the engine and NOPE, nothing was installed....its just the cheaper $2000 290 HP crate with the plain black valve covers and timing cover with no intake installed....then they just stuffed all the chrome parts on top of the engine in the wood crate! LOL

So because of this, they have agreed to come pick up the engine and take it back free of charge!

They will refund me and then I can order whatever engine I want!

This is probably good since I was hesitant about this engine anyways and it's not really suited for my application.

I am thinking about getting this engine instead....

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19210007


what do you guys think of this one?

I have a few days to make up my mind, so I need feedback!!!


Thanks in advance!!!

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

UPDATE :


ok guys thanks so much for all your help and input!

So it turns out that when I ordered this engine (the 290HP with chrome package # 19244450) I made sure multiple times with the summit racing people on the online chat as to whether the engine came with the intake manifold installed and the valve covers and timing chain cover installed. They said YES!!!

Well I went over today to my mechanics shop to look at the engine and NOPE, nothing was installed....its just the cheaper $2000 290 HP crate with the plain black valve covers and timing cover with no intake installed....then they just stuffed all the chrome parts on top of the engine in the wood crate! LOL

So because of this, they have agreed to come pick up the engine and take it back free of charge!

They will refund me and then I can order whatever engine I want!

This is probably good since I was hesitant about this engine anyways and it's not really suited for my application.

I am thinking about getting this engine instead....

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19210007


what do you guys think of this one?

I have a few days to make up my mind, so I need feedback!!!


Thanks in advance!!!

Definitely a better engine, 1 piece rear main is a vast improvement. It will require a different flywheel and balancer than the other engine. Also different manifold. Very similar to what I am running. I just have the vortec heads with the bigger valves.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

Definitely a better engine, 1 piece rear main is a vast improvement. It will require a different flywheel and balancer than the other engine. Also different manifold. Very similar to what I am running. I just have the vortec heads with the bigger valves.

So this one should be a good noticeable improvement power wise over my stock engine and will be ok for the my larger GVWR of 6700-7500 ?

What balancer would it take and what flywheel? I think I know but you guys are always better at this stuff than me at this point in my knowledge level

[1972BlueC20]

Also a couple other things while its on my mind.

what does this mean :

"Fuel line from pump to carburetor is required. Fuel pump pressure is not required, pump pressure is pre-set."

And whats the difference between :

balance : internal / external

vs (the other engine 290 HP)

balance : internal

[dfrank]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Also a couple other things while its on my mind.

what does this mean :

"Fuel line from pump to carburetor is required. Fuel pump pressure is not required, pump pressure is pre-set."

And whats the difference between :

balance : internal / external

vs (the other engine 290 HP)

balance : internal

Answer to first question: it does not come with the fuel line from the pump to the carb so you need to buy one or make one or use the one off of your old engine.

Now onto internal vs external balanced.

Externaly balanced means the crankshaft is well externaly balanced meaning it uses a counter weight on the flywheel/flexplate to balance it.

Internaly balanced means that the crankshaft is internaly balanced and DOES NOT need a flywheel/flexplate with a counter weight.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by dfrank

Answer to first question: it does not come with the fuel line from the pump to the carb so you need to buy one or make one or use the one off of your old engine.

Now onto internal vs external balanced.

Externaly balanced means the crankshaft is well externaly balanced meaning it uses a counter weight on the flywheel/flexplate to balance it.

Internaly balanced means that the crankshaft is internaly balanced and DOES NOT need a flywheel/flexplate with a counter weight.

yeah but why does it say "internal / external"

so does this engine need balance or not?

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

yeah but why does it say "internal / external"

so does this engine need balance or not?

This engine is "half internally balanced". Thats how GM set them up in the later versions.

So you need a non-weighed balancer and weighted flywheel. Flywheel needs to be for the late 350 with 1 piece rear main.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

So this one should be a good noticeable improvement power wise over my stock engine and will be ok for the my larger GVWR of 6700-7500 ?

What balancer would it take and what flywheel? I think I know but you guys are always better at this stuff than me at this point in my knowledge level

Something like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pf...make/chevrolet

And this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-399773/overview/


Doesn't have to be those exact ones, but match the specs.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

Something like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pf...make/chevrolet

And this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-399773/overview/


Doesn't have to be those exact ones, but match the specs.

Thanks Shawn!

What does the external coolant bypass thing mean?

Someone on the summit reviews said it was a pain to incorporate that and still route to his heater core. I'm not familiar with what this is.

[1972BlueC20]

"Vortec heads also require an external coolant bypass line which was extremely annoying to plumb and keep heater core functional at same timeortec heads also require an external coolant bypass line which was extremely annoying to plumb and keep heater core functional at same time"

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

"Vortec heads also require an external coolant bypass line which was extremely annoying to plumb and keep heater core functional at same timeortec heads also require an external coolant bypass line which was extremely annoying to plumb and keep heater core functional at same time"

No clue what he is talking about. My new engine plumbed in the same as my old one. Hose from manifold to heater core, then hose from heater core to temp valve, then hose from temp valve to water pump.

[1972BlueC20]

Ok cool.

What's the temperature valve for?

Should I have one of these?