Help, truck wont start

[68 P.O.S.]

When I rebuilt the carb, I set the floats according to the instructions in the kit and cleaned up the rust too. The filter is new, but I checked it and it is good. I can't figure it out.

[NoNeck]

Make sure the fuel filter is installed correctly (IN from the pump and OUT to the carb). If you had rust particles in your carb before the rebuild chances are you could still have rust in the tank. Did you remove it and thoroughly clean it out? If not, and you are running a metal canister fuel filter it may have filled with rust particles that you can't see. Also, if there is rust in the fuel lines it could have damaged the fuel pump or partially plugged it after a few weeks.

If you had fuel in the Edelbrock before but not now something has reduced flow somewhere in the lines.

Just thinking out loud.

POP

[snipescastle2]

How old is your ignition coil? Even the wires go bad, especially if they are laying on or near the manifold/headers. Also, what gap are you running on your plugs? Have you recently changed the module in the HEI distributor?
If you or the PO didn't use the dielectric grease on the module, it can fry from the heat in minutes, or a slow death.
maybe this will help.
Ben

[68 P.O.S.]

POP: I triple checked the filter and it is installed correctly. Also, i took the line off the carb and put it in a jar then cranked it over. The pump is filling the jar at a good rate so i believe the pump is working correctly.

Snipe: The distributor is a brand new Skip White unit. The gap on my plugs are at .45.

This morning I removed the Edelbrock carb and put the old Holley back on. I also removed the Skip Whit HEI dist and put the old Accel HEI back in after cleaning it up. It seems like it is working better but still wont start. I got it to run twice for maybe 3 seconds but the throttle isn't hooked up so I couldn't make it to the carb in time to give it gas. This is so frustrating.

[68 P.O.S.]

I just got it to start 3 more times for a few seconds. It barely runs and is on the vege of stalling out. When I made it to the carb to give it gas it immediately dies.

[Rona]

An intake leak could case this. When you put the new intake on did you use the end gaskets, or silicone sealer?

[Gromit]

x2 on the manifold seal... it is a little tricky getting just the right amount of RTV bead and then lowering the manifold without getting your fingers into that bead of wet RTV... looks easy in photos of other people assembling it but for me real life is harder until I've done it a few times. I've found that a 1/4" bead is a little too small - should be about 5/16ths bead when wet and make sure you can see it oozing out all along the outer edge of the manifold. And try to set the bead so it does not ooze inward toward the lifter valley as much as outward where you can wipe or cut off the excess.

And if you used the end gaskets and not RTV you are really going against the tide of popular opinion.

The other thing I can think of that is common for initial startup problems is being 180 degrees off on the harmonic balancer to distributor rotor cylinder #1 relationship - super easy mistake to make; and I've done it myself.

[Gromit]

One other quick check - (seems I've made every mistake possible so this is yet another example of one of my own ding-dong moves in the distant past); but I got the plug wires bollixed up once - in other words the firing order should be 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2

So I'm suggesting verifying that clockwise around your distributor the wires are going to the cylinders in that order from cylinder #1 and the wires are fully seated at both the distributor cap and spark plug.

Finally you might check for a short or loose wire between your points and ground - though the fact that you can run for a few seconds seems to argue against that.

[hamjet]

Originally Posted by Rona

An intake leak could case this. When you put the new intake on did you use the end gaskets, or silicone sealer?

The front and rear intake gaskets have nothing to do with vacuum leak, but I do agree it sounds like a vacuum issue...

[Grumpy old man]

Well... You have

fuel
spark
compression It should run even if badly

it would take a huge vacuum leak to keep it from running at all so...

you just recently installed a new dist/intake ?

Was that because it was not performing as well as it had in the past ?

Remove the cap and plugs
bring the #1 cylinder up on compression stroke
Does the rotor point in the direction of the #1 plug wire on the dist ?
If it's close to correct position with the cap removed and using the front belts turn the engine over BY HAND 3"-4" counter clockwise then back clockwise a few times and watch how much movement there is of the rotor compared to how far your moving the crank. Is there any delay/ slop ?

I'm thinking you may have a loose worn timing chain that may have slipped or broken a few teeth ? Possibly while testing out your newly installed performance parts using the gas pedal thrill gauge ? . I'm not sure which timing gears are in your truck but the old nylon gears were famous for letting the chain slip a tooth or just break them thus moving your timing just enough to let it try to start or not start at all ? And your symptoms seem to lean this way after checking all the previous suggestions ? May just be time for a new set of gears and chain ?

[swamp rat]

Pull the air filter and hold the choke plate open, pump the throttle lever a couple times and see if there is gas squirting into the ventures, also make sure the accelerator pump rod linkage is hooked into the hole closest to the pivot point on that rocking arm

You rebuilt the carb, do you have an operators manual? not sure if the rebuild kit has all the settings for the linkages ect but according to the little books i have the choke plate is not suppose to be all the way closed, the book shows a cut away view of using a drill bit as a measuring tool.

Heres the manual:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...404_manual.pdf

Follow Grumpys advice on rechecking the firing order, heres a pic if you need it. You can have spark but if the dist is 180 degrees out it won't run.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...&hsimp=yhs-004
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[Grumpy old man]

I don't think its out 180 , I think its a worn /sloppy chain or worn cam gear and slipped ?

Whats the first thing you do after replacing parts ? you go out and stomp on the gas to see how it runs with the new parts and if the chain/gears are old and worn it would slip 1 tooth and then get worse which is what was described as the symptoms from the start . I'm willing to bet a donut

http://www.misterfixit.com/chanslop.htm

[68 P.O.S.]

Update. Got it running yesterday with the old Accel dist and the old Holley. It took a minute, but got it going. Once warmed up I reset the timing, then pulled the Holley and put the Edelbrock back on and prayed. Luckily it started and seemed ok. Double checked all my work and went for a test drive. It has an off idle bog and at any time while driving, if i give it too much gas it will stall, give me a pop or 2, then keep going. It definitely seems off, but I have no experience with this. I think Grumpy is right with the timing chain, gonna see about getting one today. Never changed a chain and gears, is it difficult?

[Grumpy old man]

Timing chain and new gears/gaskets sealant less than $100.00 and a few hours time with the right tools.

Make that donut a double Boston creme with sprinkles !

P.S. For the cost you may as well install a new water pump while you have the old one off .

[Rona]

Hamjet, you are correct the end gaskets don't impact vacuum leaks.

68P.O.S, if it runs ok but bogs on acceleration it could be the accelerator pump. With engine off see if it is squirting.

[El Dorado Jim]

Grumpy's right, sounds like timing issue

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Pull the air filter and hold the choke plate open, pump the throttle lever a couple times and see if there is gas squirting into the ventures, also make sure the accelerator pump rod linkage is hooked into the hole closest to the pivot point on that rocking arm

You rebuilt the carb, do you have an operators manual? not sure if the rebuild kit has all the settings for the linkages ect but according to the little books i have the choke plate is not suppose to be all the way closed, the book shows a cut away view of using a drill bit as a measuring tool.

Heres the manual:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...404_manual.pdf

Follow Grumpys advice on rechecking the firing order, heres a pic if you need it. You can have spark but if the dist is 180 degrees out it won't run.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...&hsimp=yhs-004
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.
.

I'm collecting pictures and comment replies for when the time comes to start mine

Fwiw, I just did a timing chain and gears and it's a pretty easy install and very cheap even with really nice parts. Edelbrock true double roller 56$ bucks and change, Black RTV 5$ bucks, Timing Cover to clear double roller w/ gaskets 25$ bucks and change. AND, if it turns out that doesn't fix your problem, it's still very cheap insurance because sooner or later the one you have will jump a tooth or break off a few.

Good luck I sure hope you get er' running soon. Don't be too frustrated, I had a similar issue that took 4 pages and 100$ bucks worth of parts to fix not to long ago. Replaced two parts that had nothing to do with the actual fix chasing down the real problem

[Rona]

This part made me think accelator punp, "..., if i give it too much gas it will stall, give me a pop or 2, then keep going." If it were timing I wouldn't think it would recover and keep going.

[68 P.O.S.]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Make that donut a double Boston creme with sprinkles !

You got it Grumpy!

[68 P.O.S.]

Today I noticed the bog is during all driving conditions. Doesn't matter how fast I'm going, if I give it too much gas it will want to stall and pop a couple times. The accel pump linkage is in the middle notch. Should I move it to the upper one or lower one? I also bought the calibration kit for the carb and was hoping to get it tuned right. I have to study the instructions more because it doesn't make sense to me right now.

[Gromit]

Quote:/ The accel pump linkage is in the middle notch. Should I move it to the upper one or lower one?

******************
On my carb the lower one increases the travel at the carb (for example the throttle arm will rotate 180 degrees) and if I put it on the upper one it would only rotate 120 degrees at the carb. Those numbers are hypothetical I don't know the exact degrees.

Another way to say that is if I hook up the upper one my accelerator pedal only has a couple inches or so of travel; but if change to the lower hole it has about a third more travel.

I just disconnect the linkage at a convenient place and then put a weight on the accelerator pedal to hold it all the way floored and then turn your throttle arm at the carb (hopefully just once or twice so you are not squirting a bunch of fuel down the manifold) and see how far the linkage is allowing it to go verses how far it rotates without the linkage and adjust accordingly.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Gromit

Quote:/ The accel pump linkage is in the middle notch. Should I move it to the upper one or lower one?

******************
On my carb the lower one increases the travel at the carb (for example the throttle arm will rotate 180 degrees) and if I put it on the upper one it would only rotate 120 degrees at the carb. Those numbers are hypothetical I don't know the exact degrees.

Another way to say that is if I hook up the upper one my accelerator pedal only has a couple inches or so of travel; but if change to the lower hole it has about a third more travel.

I just disconnect the linkage at a convenient place and then put a weight on the accelerator pedal to hold it all the way floored and then turn your throttle arm at the carb (hopefully just once or twice so you are not squirting a bunch of fuel down the manifold) and see how far the linkage is allowing it to go verses how far it rotates without the linkage and adjust accordingly.

On the Edelbrock move the linkage to the hole closest to the pivot point to give it more gas.

No experience with Holly

[TCLARK]

I sorta got the same problem, A mechanic told me the plugs could be fouled. I bought new ones to try this weekend.

[Gromit]

One more thing to check - I once rebuilt a Holley and even though I checked the throttle plate bushings (I thought)... there turned out to be just enough wear - especially on those secondary butterfly bushings that they leaked vacuum (and fuel out in a slow drip if I recall)..

It was hard to find out what was going on because I assumed the rough running was from something else... turned out it was those carb bushings.

I finally figured it out by comparing the play on a new carb and noticed they were tighter by three or four thou at least - so it doesn't take much play there to make it run poorly.

[Gromit]

Here is a photo (not mine) of the Edelbrock 1406 bushing location - I don't know this particular carb but in my Holley 4160 there are (at least?) four such bushings... the bushings themselves are replaceable and probably cheap but if you don't get the assembly back together properly you risk metal parts circling down into the intake so I think many people just buy an entire new throttle plate as a unit... roughly $100 or less and well spent for us mere mortals ... ProForm makes them and Summit retails 'em.. Also QuickFuel Technology Inc..