A quick look at the Hickey worm gear winch

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

Also, the manual shows 1/2 pint of oil for both the gearbox and the transfer case. The gear box filled perfectly to the correct level, but the transfer case not. I can barely see the oil which would make it about an inch low, but because I used a half pint like it said, I'm thinking it's because ours are upside down like they mentioned with the gear box. You have the same thing?

Are you planning on replacing bearings/seals?

Also, I forgot to add, I just drained my oil for bench test and just dumped some oil in for the test. The transfer leaked while sitting there a few days. It may have leaked from being overfilled. I noticed in the DC200 manual in the trouble shooting section, when I was perusing for parts descriptions, that overfill will cause leaks. You might dig around and verify the fill levels. I will do the same.

[BLT gmc]

Jeff, It looks like you are doing some good work. I feel bad, I wish it had been in better shape. Bruce
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[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by BLT gmc

Jeff, It looks like you are doing some good work. I feel bad, I wish it had been in better shape. Bruce
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Don't feel bad at all. It was sitting for a long time and that's probably the main problem of stuck gears and sludge. I take responsibility for the motor. Bearings are cheap, about $15 bucks for two and I paid $25 bucks for the gasket and seal kit. By the time I'm done It won't be too much money. I decided to spend extra on the compact solenoid. Plus, I am learning a lot about the old winches of this design. I can see the general quality of the winch is very robust. So, once I get it cleaned up, It will be a workhorse for sure.

But hey, putting old equipment back into service is always a challenge.

I am still very happy about the winch. You made me a great deal on it, I am grateful.

[dazza]

There's one big problem with all this Jeff... you won't get to have it done this weekend!

Bruce, did you have two of these before you sold one to Jeff? And if so... what else you hiding out there?! hehe

[BLT gmc]

Dazza, i did have one. I bought it from Blazerman in Kansas City, Missouri. Winch only, no acessories. Not long ago i found this one on the internet. It had everthing, except the owners manual. The owner agreed to ship, so i paid to have the acessories shipped. I came to this forum asking for help with a Hickey winch in CA, with the intent of selling it to a board member that was in the area or was willing to pay $$ for shipping. Bruce
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[jeffahart]

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[dazza]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

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sure, whatever you think... hehe

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

sure, whatever you think... hehe

Ya, I tried to post some pics from my cell phone earlier today. My phone was being a jerk. I'll post some next week.

[dazza]

ok, all up and in there.

Jeff, not until I was looking at mine today did it hit me that you asked about me having a skid plate... yes I do, not installed yet but there is a side view shot of it in my other post mentioned above. If you need measurements let me know.

I'm back to my main computer so will be having a look through my other photos. I think I may have bearing/seal qty & part #'s too if needed.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

ok, all up and in there.

Jeff, not until I was looking at mine today did it hit me that you asked about me having a skid plate... yes I do, not installed yet but there is a side view shot of it in my other post mentioned above. If you need measurements let me know.

I'm back to my main computer so will be having a look through my other photos. I think I may have bearing/seal qty & part #'s too if needed.

That pic that's in the "other post" shows the front bracket mounted under the bumper. Was that pic from one of your trucks or one of someone else's. I had seen that picture before when I was trying to verify mounting position, and I could not figure the under bumper mount. At least that what it looks like.

The front of your truck looks clean with the fairlead on the bumper.

I got the bearings in the mail yesterday. So, it looks like, so far, all I need is seals, gaskets, and bearings. The bushings looked real good. So, as I clean the parts I can make a decision on the motor and motor gear.

Also, my old wire rope looks great. I pulled the whole line, no kinks or fraying. So I may keep it for a while and hunt for some synthetic later on.

[dazza]

That picture is my truck, same truck/winch just not taken apart, cleaned and rebuilt. It's just a skid plate, mounts at bottom of fairlead, rolls under the winch and goes back to the rear winch cross bracket.

Bad picture (currently looking for another I have) but it's the gray plate at the top left...

['63GENIII]

Hey Jeff, cool read on the Hickey worm gear winch? Looks like you're making real good progress. One question though, did you get your motor issue sorted out? If not, look around for a motor rebuilder. They can rewind the motors, install new brushes, bearings and the like. Being in LA, there should be at least a couple of places. Better than trying to make something work?

[dazza]

Jeff, I found this reminder of my issues with that gear! I think that's the puller that was able to finally pull it off!

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Hey Jeff, cool read on the Hickey worm gear winch? Looks like you're making real good progress. One question though, did you get your motor issue sorted out? If not, look around for a motor rebuilder. They can rewind the motors, install new brushes, bearings and the like. Being in LA, there should be at least a couple of places. Better than trying to make something work?

The motor is expensive to get rebuilt, as far as quotes I'm getting so far. So, If I get a NOS 10 spline its around $300 and a rebuild is around the same, from my quotes so far. But a smooth shaft motor is $85. So if I spend bucks to keep 10 spline and the motor goes out, I'm back to square one on the over priced 10 spline.

Plus check out the 10 spline, a possible design flaw may be why they ditched it for the smooth shaft, from what I'm looking at now anyway.

In the following pics check out the 10 spline. How do you seal the shaft? Exactly, that's why I think they had two seals stacked, one to keep out most oil and one shoved up against the motor housing to get a bead on the small amount of smooth shaft.

So, I think I will get a smooth shaft motor and figure out how to retrofit for a newer gear for a smooth shaft motor and still use a 3/4" seal on the shaft and get a good seal right at the case.

Plus, the new design is to use a smooth bore gear with a key and set screw, there is a collar on the motor side of the gear that sticks through the transfer case; and the new seal is larger and seals at the gear collar. Again, some room for small leakage as the seal is not made at the shaft and some small amounts of oil could make it between the inner gear bore and the shaft and out to the motor when it's spinning.

So my Idea is to maybe use the old style small seal at the shaft, and retool a new style smooth inner bore gear so the collars stops short of the inner side of the transfer.

I will post more pics when I get the new style smooth inner bore gear, and post if it does or does not work and why. Anyhow If it work's I will have a good cheap solution for anyone in the future.

[BLT gmc]

Dazza, how were you able to get the mounts on top of the lower frame rail? Bruce
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[jeffahart]

New gear came in the mail today. Good news on the gear, it has a seal installed on the inner bore. So, disregard my verbiage in post #50 where I say there is no seal on inner gear bore to shaft. I was happy to find I was wrong. No good specs on the gear when I bought it.

When I got the gear it became apparent what to do, though you do have two choices.

1) Surface collar of new gear down to same length as original gear and use old style small shaft seal only.

2) Bore the case to accommodate the new bigger size seal.

I ran the case down to the machine shop this evening and had the case milled to 1.745 (just shy of 1 3/4". The new seal is hard rubber and not metal cased, so I opted for a bit tighter tolerance.

So now I will order the Western Motors 8933 motor.

The gear is Pierce Sales Motor Drive Gear (PS654)
seal is motor seal (PS654)
and woodruff key (PS654)

So the cost to get off the old 10 spline motor:= $30 for the new gear and $30 for the case milling. Plus some change for the seal and woof woof key.

So about $140 to upgrade off the 10 spline. So the price of the 8933 is $83(free shipping) plus the $60 for gear and mill work. Try to buy a 10 spline for that!

Here's some pics.

New and Old gears.


New gear had shaft seal installed already.


New and old gears with seals. The old gear is shorter and stops at the transfer so the seal is same diameter as the gear. The new gear is longer and has a fatter collar the runs through the case.


Case milled for new bigger seal.


Inside view with big seal and new gear.

[Orange Crate]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

New gear came in the mail today. Good news on the gear, it has a seal installed on the inner bore. So, disregard my verbiage in post #50 where I say there is no seal on inner gear bore to shaft. I was happy to find I was wrong. No good specs on the gear when I bought it.

When I got the gear it became apparent what to do, though you do have two choices.

1) Surface collar of new gear down to same length as original gear and use old style small shaft seal only.

2) Bore the case to accommodate the new bigger size seal.

I ran the case down to the machine shop this evening and had the case milled to 1.745 (just shy of 1 3/4". The new seal is hard rubber and not metal cased, so I opted for a bit tighter tolerance.

So now I will order the Western Motors 8933 motor.

The gear is Pierce Sales Motor Drive Gear (PS654)
seal is motor seal (PS654)
and woodruff key (PS654)

So the cost to get off the old 10 spline motor:= $30 for the new gear and $30 for the case milling. Plus some change for the seal and woof woof key.

So about $140 to upgrade off the 10 spline. So the price of the 8933 is $83(free shipping) plus the $60 for gear and mill work. Try to buy a 10 spline for that!

Here's some pics.

New and Old gears.
Attachment 1508407

New gear had shaft seal installed already.
Attachment 1508408

New and old gears with seals. The old gear is shorter and stops at the transfer so the seal is same diameter as the gear. The new gear is longer and has a fatter collar the runs through the case.
Attachment 1508414

Case milled for new bigger seal.
Attachment 1508415

Inside view with big seal and new gear.
Attachment 1508417

By converting to the larger diameter seal and gear that matches, it allows the removal of the motor to replace the seal and NOT have to remove the drive gear (to replace seals) as you did with the old small gear and small diameter seals (seals were installed behind the drive gear). I am sure with the smooth shaft and woodruff key it will be easier to remove the gear if you have to but, it would not be mandatory to remove the drive gear when the seal needs to be replaced.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by Orange Crate

By converting to the larger diameter seal and gear that matches, it allows the removal of the motor to replace the seal and NOT have to remove the drive gear (to replace seals) as you did with the old small gear and small diameter seals (seals were installed behind the drive gear). I am sure with the smooth shaft and woodruff key it will be easier to remove the gear if you have to but, it would not be mandatory to remove the drive gear when the seal needs to be replaced.

Salient point Orange Crate! Are you are still traumatized from pulling that gear? I am! Worried you might have to do it again?

Anyhow, if you have access to a machine shop, and if you have to replace the motor, I would get the large collar gear and seal kit and give it a good look over. I didn't want to pay to have my motor fixed, and the only new one I found was north of $300 (a kings ransom for a simple motor like this). So I went with the cheap maintainable route. I'm not calling my decision good or bad, just my decision when I was at the motor/gear crossroad! In the end I got the 10 spline motor working, go figure! I gave it to Bruce. You can have my old gear if you want it, pretty sure I still have it. Might be in a bit better shape than yours, not sure. I can dig it up an photo if your interested.

j

[Orange Crate]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

Salient point Orange Crate! Are you are still traumatized from pulling that gear? I am! Worried you might have to do it again?

Anyhow, if you have access to a machine shop, and if you have to replace the motor, I would get the large collar gear and seal kit and give it a good look over. I didn't want to pay to have my motor fixed, and the only new one I found was north of $300 (a kings ransom for a simple motor like this). So I went with the cheap maintainable route. I'm not calling my decision good or bad, just my decision when I was at the motor/gear crossroad! In the end I got the 10 spline motor working, go figure! I gave it to Bruce. You can have my old gear if you want it, pretty sure I still have it. Might be in a bit better shape than yours, not sure. I can dig it up an photo if your interested.

j

Yes, still recovering from that gear work. I do have access to a very decent machine shop and will be going the same route that you took. It will be easier to get parts and maintain after converting to the newer gear and seal. I don't know anyone who would say "I won't need to maintain that" although most winches probably don't see much action. The winch I have was covered in silicone sealant and that seal in particular was covered in it, so I know it was leaking and the previous owner obviously attempted to cure the issue but couldn't get that drive gear off. I just got back from my business trip so looking forward to some quality time with the winch and bead blaster. More pictures of the Hickey winch to follow...how kool is that going to be? Who doesn't want more pictures of Hickey winches...?

[dazza]

Just back in town...

Bruce, I found the easiest way to maneuver this or the sidewinder was to loosely mount the the brackets where I wanted them to be, then I use a hydraulic cart that I'm lucky enough to have available to me to raise the winch into place. With this winch set down having the gear box facing up, I slowly raise the cart up and as it contacts the brackets, it pretty much rolls forward into place.
For future reference, I tried both front and rear brackets on top of lower frame rail but could not get it to align properly. The only success I had was with front bracket on top and rear underneath. I'm content with how secure it feels and if I thought I'd be doing some serious pulling with it, I'd probably give it a few hits with the welder, for CDO sake anyways!

Jeff, It's been a few days since you've posted, looks like you have it sorted. Is it mounted yet?

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

Just back in town...

Bruce, I found the easiest way to maneuver this or the sidewinder was to loosely mount the the brackets where I wanted them to be, then I use a hydraulic cart that I'm lucky enough to have available to me to raise the winch into place. With this winch set down having the gear box facing up, I slowly raise the cart up and as it contacts the brackets, it pretty much rolls forward into place.
For future reference, I tried both front and rear brackets on top of lower frame rail but could not get it to align properly. The only success I had was with front bracket on top and rear underneath. I'm content with how secure it feels and if I thought I'd be doing some serious pulling with it, I'd probably give it a few hits with the welder, for CDO sake anyways!

Jeff, It's been a few days since you've posted, looks like you have it sorted. Is it mounted yet?

I'm waiting for the motor in the mail. I didn't want to spend on the motor until I could see the gear. buying the gear was a gamble, I wasn't positive what it was going to be. But when I get the motor I will clean parts and assemble.

Also, I am happy with under frame mount. The 7/16 grade 8 bolts are fine. Initially I tried to fit it inside the rails because I assumed that's where it mounted. But, if your putting massive force on the bolts during winching operations, I don't think over or under matters. Just my thoughts, and I'm feeling good about under mounting.

I'll post more pics when I get the motor so the smooth shaft change over is verified and put to rest for future reference.

[dazza]

I've also started going through my photos and posting for reference if anybody needs. So far, np205, sm465, and winch. A lot of duplicates but different angles just in case, I've often found what I'm looking for in the background of a picture that I didn't even know was there!

---> Hickey Winch

[jeffahart]

OK, I got the new smooth shaft motor in the mail today. I ran out this evening to see if it fit. I will have to admit the waiting has been a bit nerve wracking for me being that I ran out last week and had the case milled based on the gear alone.

But, the motor fits fine with the gear, now I can complete clean up and assemble. A relief.

Here's some pics. I also included the two electric motor specs from Western motor. Just for easy reference for the next guy or gal.

Everything fit... so far


The old 10 spline and new smooth shaft


Here's the specs for both motor form Western Motor. Also, I want to point out that the raised ring diameter(3") and the shaft length(1-7/8") is same for the 10 spline... even though it's not stated on the MBJ-4301 spec.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by dazza

I've also started going through my photos and posting for reference if anybody needs. So far, np205, sm465, and winch. A lot of duplicates but different angles just in case, I've often found what I'm looking for in the background of a picture that I didn't even know was there!

---> Hickey Winch

Thanks for that link and all the images. I'm already using it as reference for reassembly.

[dazza]

Excellent, nice to hear.

You received that motor quick! I'll have to make a note in regards to Western Motor, I had never heard of them until now.

I've been looking for a good solenoid location under my hood and keep thinking of your compact setup...