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03-25-2016, 10:35 PM | #26 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Quote:
I do like the thought of how you used the shorter input. Not only did it help by not having to buy an adapter it also allow the weight of the 205 to be closer to the mounting flange of the nv4500. I know the spacer only moves the 205 back approx. 1.6" but that just amplifies the weight the NV4500 has hanging on its back. I figured the rod from the t-case to the bellhousing bolt will aid in stabilizing and relieving some of the hanging stress the 205 puts onto the nv4500. The NV4500 is a robust piece but a cast iron tail housing would make me a little more relaxed since the 205 is so hefty.
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88' Chevy V30 3+3 4x4 Dually 454 TBI/NV4500/NP205 |
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04-06-2016, 02:58 AM | #27 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Good looking swap. I couldn't imagine going back to no OD. Your floor laid down about as nice as mine! After wrestling with a set of 50 lbs. dumbbells and a heat gun for a couple days I accepted that's as good as it's going to get.
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-Marcus 1991 V3500 L29 454 4L80E NP205 D60/14 Bolt 4.56's 1984 K30 292 TH400 NP205 D60/14 Bolt 4.56's flat bed 7'6" Meyer Plow 2022 Silverado 3500 L8T Project Daily Driver Project Heavy Hauler Project Plow Truck |
04-06-2016, 08:37 AM | #28 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Very nice looking swap. It always amazes me how easy some of you make things look. I have an '86 4 wheel drive that I have been wanting to do this same thing to.
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11-29-2016, 01:22 AM | #29 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
where did you find the early short spline?
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11-30-2016, 10:16 AM | #30 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
amsoil fluid is half the cost of the dealer fluid, and is a better fluid for it.
the short inputs are way easier to find than the long ones.
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88 military v30 crewcab shortbed 5.9 cummins, nv4500, 205 86 k30, 89 diesel burb, 76 gmc pathfinder 71 longbed 5.3 4l80 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=522535 |
11-30-2016, 10:19 AM | #31 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Yea I'm running Amsoil MTG in it.
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88' Chevy V30 3+3 4x4 Dually 454 TBI/NV4500/NP205 |
11-30-2016, 09:03 PM | #32 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
I'm about half way through an nv4500 swap in my c30 right now, the only custom piece I'm using is a hydraulic clutch line
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12-07-2016, 02:09 PM | #33 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Subscribing because I am in the planning stage of mine as well.
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06-27-2017, 09:48 AM | #34 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
If you go from a TH400 to an NV4500, the rear mount is in the same exact spot, and in my case it uses the same exact mount that the '94 Chevy the trans came out of with my '87. My swap has an NP208.
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10-26-2020, 01:27 PM | #35 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
I'll just add to this thread three years later--
If you switch between a sm465 and a nv4500, with both being 4wd, the crossmember and transfer case stay in the same exact position.
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1987 C6P V20 truck, 2010 LMG 5.3, AFM delete, 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds, 1997 nv4500, 1991 np241c, hydroboost, 2005 14bff axle & driveshaft, drop-n-lock gooseneck, 4.10 gears, stock suspension, rims, and tires. Still a work in progress. Any questions or suggestions are welcome! |
10-26-2020, 03:43 PM | #36 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
So in essence:
A 465 and nv4500 with bellhousings are the exact same length? And..they are BOTH the same length as a TH400? I'm guessing that the OP of this thread is using factory 2 piece driveshaft? I'm thinking that the swap wasn't exactly the same because DirtyLarry didn't use the 1.625 inch spacer and he also claims everything bolted back in? Maybe the slip joints in the driveshafts are what's making up the differences? |
10-26-2020, 04:08 PM | #37 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Quote:
I will confess, I didn't do a direct swap from one to the other. I swapped the entire drivetrain from a 350/sm465/np208 to a 5.3/nv4500/np241c. I measured from the bellhousing mating surface to the rear of the clamshell mount. I matched that 14" measurement on the new engine, and bolted it in with the nv4500. The trans crossmember bolted right in like it did before.
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1987 C6P V20 truck, 2010 LMG 5.3, AFM delete, 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds, 1997 nv4500, 1991 np241c, hydroboost, 2005 14bff axle & driveshaft, drop-n-lock gooseneck, 4.10 gears, stock suspension, rims, and tires. Still a work in progress. Any questions or suggestions are welcome! |
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10-26-2020, 04:25 PM | #38 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
I'm thinking there is several ways to make the swap depending on what parts are used.
I'm getting ready to begin my swap in the next few weeks. I'm swapping the 400/208 for the 4500/AA spacer/205 t-case. My biggest issue is determining if I need to run a two piece rear shaft due to the overall longer length because the 4500 is shorter and the 205 is way shorter due to the fixed yoke. What is/was your setup? I'm assuming your 241 has a slip yoke? |
11-15-2020, 07:58 AM | #39 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Quote:
The reason a lot of these parts have the same exact dimensions, is because GM was swapping them in the middle of a model run. The sm465 got a different bellhousing(passenger side external slave) and an aluminum shift cover with a more rearward shift position, when it was installed in the gmt400 trucks. The rest of the transmission remained exactly the same as the one used in the 87-91 R/V trucks. When the sm465 was swapped out in the middle of the model run for the nv3500/nv4500, those two transmissions were sized to fit exactly in the vacated space. In the same way, the np241 took the place of the np208 during the gmt400 and R/V model runs. Again, it only made sense for GM to spec the np241 as an exact drop-in replacement. In contrast to this, the switch from Gen-1 small blocks to Gen-3's occurred at the beginning of a new model run. Because of this, these engines don't swap as easily. GM obviously wanted to use their former transmissions with the new engines, so the bellhousing patterns remained the same. But since they were changing the chassis at the same time as the engine, there was no need to keep the engine mounts in the same place. That got a little long winded, but it's illustrating a principle. Look at an issue from GM's point of view. If it was in their best interest to make several parts interchangeable, they probably did.
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1987 C6P V20 truck, 2010 LMG 5.3, AFM delete, 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds, 1997 nv4500, 1991 np241c, hydroboost, 2005 14bff axle & driveshaft, drop-n-lock gooseneck, 4.10 gears, stock suspension, rims, and tires. Still a work in progress. Any questions or suggestions are welcome! |
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11-15-2020, 09:54 AM | #40 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
That's good info. Makes sense. Thanks
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11-15-2020, 12:05 PM | #41 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Quote:
(I know you're asking "Why?" but I use it more off-road than on the highway so the granny gear would be more useful than the overdrive)
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Current/past Chevy/GMC trucks: 1958 Chevy C-60; 1965 GMC C-50; 1965 Chevy C-10; 1971 Chevy K-10; 1973 Chevy K-20; 1976 GMC C-20; 1977 Chevy C-10 Suburban; 1980 Chevy K-10; 1989 Chevy K1500; 1991 GMC V1500 Suburban; 2016 Chevy K2500 HD Other vehicles: 1988 Jeep XJ; 2011 Toyota 4Runner |
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11-15-2020, 12:35 PM | #42 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Quote:
The squarebody iron-tops will need floor modifications, custom slave cylinder plumbing, and possibly exhaust rerouting to clear the slave. Also look for the 1992-1994 nv4500. These years had the granny gear and the overdrive. The granny isn't quite as deep as the sm465, but it's close. These should drop right in, but you might have to change the transfer case input shaft. Again, you'll want to purchase an nv4500 complete with a bellhousing. I might be winging it a bit here. I'm confident in my information regarding the nv4500. I'm less certain about my knowledge of the nv3500. Keep that in mind with the following paragraph. The R/V trucks continued to offer the iron-top sm465 as the only manual option through the end of their run in 1991. The gmt400 trucks started out with the nv3500 in 1988 on the half-tons. The heavier trucks got the aluminum-top sm465's with the rearward shift position and passenger side slave. This shift position and slave position were identical to the nv3500. In 1992, the sm465 was dropped for good, and the nv4500 showed up on the scene. This was the same length, the same shift position, and the same slave position as the lighter nv3500 and the now-discontinued aluminum-top sm465. My knowledge of the nv3500 drops out at this point. The nv4500 continued in the granny-low configuration through 1994. In 1995, it was rearranged to match the Dodge nv4500 ratios. Granny low was dropped, and all the gears were spaced better for daily driving. In 1996, the bellhousing to trans bolt pattern was changed to match the dodge bolt pattern. At the same time, a new internal slave bellhousing was introduced. A few more minor changes followed in 1997 and 2001, but those don't affect fitment much. In summary, any manual transmission from a gmt400 should be interchangeable with any other, until you get into the mid-90's with the internal slaves. The aluminum-top sm465, the nv3500, and the nv4500 can all be switched. Just make sure each one comes with it's respective bellhousing. The bellhousing has to stay with the respective transmission. Also, the spline counts on the t-case input shaft might change between the lighter weight trucks and the heavy weights. The input shaft on a np241 is a very easy and cheap swap, though.
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1987 C6P V20 truck, 2010 LMG 5.3, AFM delete, 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds, 1997 nv4500, 1991 np241c, hydroboost, 2005 14bff axle & driveshaft, drop-n-lock gooseneck, 4.10 gears, stock suspension, rims, and tires. Still a work in progress. Any questions or suggestions are welcome! Last edited by kipps; 11-15-2020 at 12:44 PM. |
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11-16-2020, 01:22 PM | #43 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Okay, thanks!
That tells me just any old 465 won't fit; has to be from a GMT400. So I will just go back to my original plan: eventually try to find a decent 73-87 K/20 with an SM465 for my "ranch" truck. I get pretty tired of putting the 89 K1500 in low range any time I need to back up a little hill, or do anything slow and careful
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Current/past Chevy/GMC trucks: 1958 Chevy C-60; 1965 GMC C-50; 1965 Chevy C-10; 1971 Chevy K-10; 1973 Chevy K-20; 1976 GMC C-20; 1977 Chevy C-10 Suburban; 1980 Chevy K-10; 1989 Chevy K1500; 1991 GMC V1500 Suburban; 2016 Chevy K2500 HD Other vehicles: 1988 Jeep XJ; 2011 Toyota 4Runner |
01-15-2021, 11:59 AM | #44 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
I know this is somewhat of an old thread, but can you confirm this? I have an 89 v30 with SM465 (shot) and NP205. I would love to swap to an NV4500 instead of rebuilding the sm465. I’ve read a bunch about it, but a little confused. How can I make them the same length, swap input shaft on the Tcase, put an adapter between them, both? I would love to leave Tcase in the factory position and not mess with driveshaft lengths. Thanks!
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01-15-2021, 01:17 PM | #45 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Quote:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/threads/sm...-np205.519198/ It appears you have one of the rare desirable 32-spline np205 cases with the round six-bolt pattern. A nv4500 is virtually the same length as a sm465, if both are 4wd. There are slight differences of less than 1/2 an inch, but as far as I know, that's just manufacturing discrepancies over the years. It's not enough to cause any issue with driveshafts. A potential issue is the transfer case shift linkage. The nv4500 never had the connection point for the transfer case shift linkage that the np205 requires. You'll need to fab up a bracket, or buy one. It appears that Advance Adapters makes, or did make, a bracket for that purpose. Edit to add: be sure to look over any nv4500 good before installing it. Ideally even before buying it. Remove the shift cover, the pto plates, and the rear extension housing. Look for any debris in the oil, check for excessive slop in the input shaft/mainshaft combo, make sure there are no chipped or badly worn gear teeth, and confirm that the fifth gear nut and gear are still in their correct locations. It's also possible to tell the general condition of the synchros, just by looking at the spacing between the sychro teeth and the engagement teeth. I'm not well versed on that, though. I bought a 1997 nv4500 sight-unseen, and intended to stab it in and run it as-is. I opened it up, and found that fifth gear was half-way backed off, the input shaft thrust bearing was gone, the 3/4 synchro hub was trashed because of that missing bearing, the parts of that bearing had chipped two gear teeth, and the synchros were heavily worn. I'm facing $1000 in parts to get this thing back in operable condition. If I had run it as-is, it most certainly would have failed in the first 100 miles. These nv4500's are not hard to work on, if you have access to bearing pullers, a press, and basic fabrication tools for making some of the specialty tools required.
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1987 C6P V20 truck, 2010 LMG 5.3, AFM delete, 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds, 1997 nv4500, 1991 np241c, hydroboost, 2005 14bff axle & driveshaft, drop-n-lock gooseneck, 4.10 gears, stock suspension, rims, and tires. Still a work in progress. Any questions or suggestions are welcome! Last edited by kipps; 01-15-2021 at 01:26 PM. |
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01-16-2021, 11:47 PM | #46 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Quote:
$1000 in parts? I'm fixing to rebuild my spare nv4500 at about half that price from Allstate. I wouldn't buy a used trans without assuming it needs rebuilt. Although I got lucky on my current one I just installed but I was able to drive the donor truck before he pulled it. |
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01-17-2021, 12:07 AM | #47 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Quote:
Torqueking uses better quality bearings than rockauto offers, and the bearings were what caused my issues in the first place, so I feel some obligation to install the best bearings I can. I really don't want to go back in to this transmission. I'll be welding the fifth gear nut and gear together, so that shouldn't be failing any time soon.
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1987 C6P V20 truck, 2010 LMG 5.3, AFM delete, 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds, 1997 nv4500, 1991 np241c, hydroboost, 2005 14bff axle & driveshaft, drop-n-lock gooseneck, 4.10 gears, stock suspension, rims, and tires. Still a work in progress. Any questions or suggestions are welcome! |
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01-17-2021, 12:17 AM | #48 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
Allstate gear has better quality parts. I refuse to buy Chinese crap anymore.
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01-17-2021, 07:24 AM | #49 |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
From what little I can tell, Allstate gear appears to have the same offerings as RockAuto. Likely the same kits and the same prices. TorqueKing seems like the more reputable company compared to Allstate. They've established an excellent reputation for actually knowing these transmissions, and their bearings are a higher spec than others.
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1987 C6P V20 truck, 2010 LMG 5.3, AFM delete, 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds, 1997 nv4500, 1991 np241c, hydroboost, 2005 14bff axle & driveshaft, drop-n-lock gooseneck, 4.10 gears, stock suspension, rims, and tires. Still a work in progress. Any questions or suggestions are welcome! |
02-02-2021, 06:05 AM | #50 | |
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Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
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100:1 low gear! Last edited by doubleclucker; 02-06-2021 at 06:49 AM. |
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