Horn doesn't work!

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by OUbesto

yah, I need to get a puller. I've read on the forum that some recommend from Harbor Freight is pretty cheap. Thanks so much for your help. I will certainly report back once I get wheel off and take a peek at the cam and switch etc.. Thanks again!

No problem. Yes, let us know what you find. Be sure and check the spring inside the cancelling cam tower, it may be broken. To get it out you have to turn the small Red plastic piece inside the top of the tower 1/4 turn but I don't remember which way....

LockDoc

[snipescastle2]

there is a wire that is inside the rag joint (joins the steering shaft to the steering gear box) if that wire is broken, that may also cause you to have an incomplete circuit......
HTH,
Ben

[OUbesto]

Hey Ben, I looked everywhere down by the gear box but I don't see any wires. is it possible to send me picture or provide more details as to where I might look for it? Thanks so much!

[franken]

Seems like you grounded the pin and the horn sounded at one point, but its not working now?
The horn button provides a ground to the horn relay via the flat round spring disk when you press the horn button. That spring also makes the horn button pop back up. The coil spring under the steering wheel should make the pin spring up and keeps in in contact with the cancelling cam and the metal bits above.
The steering column needs to be grounded or the horn relay won't get a ground...
Its been a few years since I fixed mine but as I recall the disk spring should be oriented like an upside down bowl.

[OUbesto]

Franken,

I did previously say that I grounded the pin and the horn sounded, however when I revisited the troubleshooting, I noticed that when I attempted to touch the pin with the ground wire, I inadvertently was also touching the base plate and I believe that what was causing it to sound the horn. So I placed some tape on the base around the pin and this time I could not get the horn to sound either when the pin was fully depressed or fully extended outward. If I touch the grounded wire anywhere on the steering rod, nut, base plate I get immediate horn sound so I know steering column is a good ground. I believe my next step is to pull off the wheel and see what's happening under there.

[66clow]

Here a technique I have use to remove the steering wheel without a puller.

https://youtu.be/l7tEaWUqtEY

[El Dorado Jim]

curious as to what you find out..

[spidermn]

Who needs a horn when you have a big ol loud motor!

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by spidermn

Who needs a horn when you have a big ol loud motor!

It's hard to use that when you are off the gas and hard on the brakes.....

LockDoc

[snipescastle2]

I have seen many rag joints without these ground connections in them before,
But I know mine has it and my horn works.... Here's a few pics.....

[snipescastle2]

sorry, images didn't upload from my phone....here you go.....



Ben

[OUbesto]

Hey Ben,
Perfect...now I know what I'm looking for! I'll report back next week (taking weekend off!!)

[66clow]

Originally Posted by OUbesto

Hey Ben,
Perfect...now I know what I'm looking for! I'll report back next week (taking weekend off!!)

No the suspense is killing us, well me because I need a working horn also

[OUbesto]

I think I'm getting closer to a solution. I removed steering wheel and tested for good ground on the copper pin in the cancelling cam. I pushed down on the copper pin to be sure it was fully depressed but still no horn sound. But when I touched my relay wire to steering bolt, I get horn sound. (I still have a jumper wire hooked up to my relay.) So next I removed cancelling cam part so I could see underside of cam and where the copper pin bottoms out. The copper pin is designed to make contact with a very small metal plate ( approx 1/8" wide) and that plate is connected to a black wire that is part of the steering wheel wiring harness. I tested horn again by touching my horn relay wire directly to the small metal plate (this would bypass the copper pin) so I could eliminate the copper pin and black plastic contact. Still no horn sound. So next step was to test continuity of black wire attached the small contact plate and the other end of the steering wheel harness located at the bottom of the steering column near the firewall. Tested ok. So it appears I do not have a good ground (black wire) feeding the steering column wire harness. I tried to follow the black wire feeding the harness but it goes into a larger main harness under the driver side dash with many other wires that ultimately leads into fuse panel.

Hopefully this isn't too confusing!

Do you think I can just tap into the "black" wire from the steering wire harness and make a new connection to a local ground?

[OUbesto]

New update....I now have a good ground up to the copper pin in the white plastic directional mechanism. That's the god news! However, after I place the black round plastic cancelling cam and tighten up the nut, I no longer get a ground when testing the light metal pin that comes thru the steering wheel base plate. I reinstalled the steering shaft spring underneath the cancelling cam (which was the way it was originally installed by PO image #1). It seems to me that when the coil spring is installed below the cancelling cam, it does not tighten down far enough to make contact with the copper pin and the underside of the cancelling cam to make complete ground. If I remove spring from the underside of the cam (image #2) and slide cam as far as it will slide down the shaft, I get a good ground contact at the tip of the top metal pin. Anyone know if the spring should be installed first, before the cancelling cam (image #1)? Or should it be installed after, or on top of the cam between the steering wheel?

[OUbesto]

I for got to attach steering wheel assembly from shop manual that does NOT even show a spring on either side of the cancelling cam (#31). ??????

[OUbesto]

Just assembled without the steering column spring and......horn blows continuously! Ready to throw in the towel!!

[66clow]

Originally Posted by OUbesto

Just assembled without the steering column spring and......horn blows continuously! Ready to throw in the towel!!

Keep the photos coming I'm sorry but your taking the pain for me before I dig in fixing mine. I'm not starting until you fix yours. I just went through this craziness with my lights trying to get them to work. Little stuff like this makes you want to up and sell the truck I've been there. You spend way too much time on one little problem, and then it turns out to be some little simple fix.

[haycatcher]

Spring goes in first then cam.

[OUbesto]

Guess that's why it was installed that way originally. Anyone have a clue why cam won't tighten down far enough for the underside of the cam to make contact with the copper pin in the directional mechanism? Should I try tightening down harder on the nut even though I am already tightening it down @ spec of 50 ft lbs.

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by OUbesto

Guess that's why it was installed that way originally. Anyone have a clue why cam won't tighten down far enough for the underside of the cam to make contact with the copper pin in the directional mechanism? Should I try tightening down harder on the nut even though I am already tightening it down @ spec of 50 ft lbs.

Is your column a tilt? It doesn't look like it but it Looks to me like the cancelling cam and spring in the above pictures are for a tilt column. A non tilt cancelling cam would be White and would not use the spring.

LockDoc

[OUbesto]

It is a tilt wheel. I read somewhere last night that tilt wasn't available until 71, so I'm thinking PO upgraded?

[haycatcher]

I would look at copper pin in turn signal switch as it seems short in the pictures you provided. Might need to replace that?

[OUbesto]

Next stop...LMC for a new $6 copper pin! I'll report back

[66clow]

Thanks to you I just got mine working. I don't have a tilt, I have power steering and don't have the wire in the rag nut. I pretty much followed your install without the big spring. Like you the horn stays on once you put everything together without that big spring. I loosened the steering wheel nut a bit and I ended up only using and tightening up the two screws further away from the pin underneath the black circle thing. It allows the button to work. With the third screw in the pin was too close to the black circle plate. Another option is I saw on utube is actually snipping a small part of the silver pin to shorten it slightly with some snips. This would back it away from the black circle plate. Good luck. Also I'm not sure if it matters or the difference my cancelling cam is white but looks similar to your black one.